Teicher: Chiefs Help Arrives

keg in kc · 05-12-2007, 04:53 AM

Chiefs’ help arrives

Newcomers, including defensive linemen, here for 3-day rookie camp.

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star
Posted on Sat, May. 12, 2007

James Reed won’t be carrying any bags or fetching any meals this weekend for the Chiefs’ rookie defensive linemen. There’s only so far a veteran will go.

But Reed, a starting defensive tackle for the Chiefs last year, is happy to have Turk McBride and Tank Tyler around. Their presence could bump Reed from the starting lineup, but it’s worth that to him if he doesn’t have to carry the burden he did last season.

He played about two-thirds of the defensive snaps, a lot for the smallish Reed. The other line starters, ends Jared Allen and Tamba Hali and tackle Ron Edwards, played even more.

“We just didn’t have reliable guys to go in, and so we had to stick it out whether we were tired or not,” said Reed, who joined the Chiefs last year after playing five seasons for the Jets. “That takes its toll. I played more last year than I ever did when I was with New York. I don’t want to have to do that again. It kills your legs. You can’t do the things you want when you’re not fresh.

“You always want to see what the rookies look like. This year, you really want to see what the rookies look like.”

The Chiefs today begin a three-day rookie camp, and the participants will include McBride, their second-round draft pick, and Tyler, their third-round choice. The Chiefs will begin to get a feel whether they have finally built the line depth that has eluded them since Chester McGlockton and Dan Williams were on patrol in 2000.

At tackle, Tyler and free-agent pickup Alfonso Boone will join Reed and Edwards. Jimmy Wilkerson returns along with Allen and Hali at end. The Chiefs believe McBride can play either position.

That would be depth they haven’t had at those positions in years if, of course, they drafted correctly. There’s the possibility they didn’t. The Chiefs repeatedly tried and whiffed in drafting defensive linemen under former coach Dick Vermeil.

But last year, after Herm Edwards arrived as his replacement and vice president Bill Kuharich became a prominent voice in draft preparations, the Chiefs finally got one right when they picked Hali with their first choice.

They are confident McBride and Tyler will follow.

“The more you watch these guys play, the more you feel that they kind of fit the mold of what you’re looking for in defensive linemen,” Edwards said. “They’re kind of similar to Tamba. They play hard, and they have a lot of passion.”

If Edwards is correct, the Chiefs have enough big bodies that they can withstand Allen’s season-opening four-game suspension and, later, an injury or two. Just as important, the starters won’t have to play as many snaps.

“We’ve created the ability to rotate our defensive line,” Edwards said. “Last year, we got into some problems, especially late in games when guys got tired and we couldn’t get the pass rush we wanted. You really don’t want defensive linemen to play more than 50 plays. That’s asking too much on how we’re having them play. They have to be active in the running game, and they have to rush the passer.”

The Chiefs blamed last season’s timid pass rush in part on a lack of fresh bodies. Line fatigue also was a problem against the run.

“There were times when the other team has kept running the ball on us because they knew we were so tired,” Wilkerson said. “At times like that, you’ve just got to man up and hopefully stop them so you can get off the field and get some rest.”

Reed doesn’t want to sound as if he’s complaining about having to play too much, but he does think he will play better by playing fewer snaps.

He said he felt more comfortable re-signing with the Chiefs last month after they told him they planned to fortify the line through the draft.

“You tend to save yourself when you know you can’t come out of the game,” he said. “If you go out there in the first half and lay it all on the line, you’re not going to have anything left in the second half. Now we’ll be able to go all out on every play.”

**Tribal Warfare** · 05-12-2007, 05:07 AM

We'll have to wait and see if Herm can go 2 for 2 concerning the quality of his drafts on the defense

StcChief · 05-12-2007, 06:39 AM

Yeah but my confidence in his draft ability is way more than DV.... with Bill Kuharich, Tim Krumrie, Gun's input
picking D players is much better than DV with Grob.

His picks while with in NYJ. and earlier with Chiefs in 90s.... give me confidence.

Alot of anti-Herm sentiment is his offensive style. That may change with right players. Drafting Bowe could be the O spark we need.
Solari's better not have sophmore blues.

keg in kc · 05-12-2007, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StcChief

Yeah but my confidence in his draft ability is way more than DV.... with Bill Kuharich, Tim Krumrie, Gun's input
picking D players is much better than DV with Grob.

I'm good with all of that but Gun. His history really isn't pretty when it comes to the draft.

This does appear to be Herm's strength, however.

StcChief · 05-12-2007, 06:58 AM

Anybody know a TRUE Gun's pick that was total bust.

Braincase · 05-12-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StcChief

Anybody know a TRUE Gun's pick that was total bust.

Sylvester Morris.

boogblaster · 05-12-2007, 07:08 AM

The TANK will roll....

milkman · 05-12-2007, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StcChief

Anybody know a TRUE Gun's pick that was total bust.

Junior Siavii
William Bartee

StcChief · 05-12-2007, 07:24 AM

Were these guys total Gun 'gotta have' picks.....or desperation attempts. for King Carl to cheap out on.

keg in kc · 05-12-2007, 07:27 AM

Gun talked about Siavii like he was a long-lost bastard son he'd just found.

Mike Cloud was a bust, gun 2nd rounder.
Billy Bartee was a bust, gun 2nd rounder
While he was a great special teamer, Gary Stills was a bust, as a gun 3rd round LB.
Larry Atkins was a bust, gun 3rd rounder.

Those are just his picks as a HC...

Ralphy Boy · 05-12-2007, 07:27 AM

I'm sick to death of everyone blaming DV, on the bad draft choices WE made, regarding defense during his tenure. They make it sound as if Dick hand selected everyone of them. The guy gave us a lot of good memories and showed us a lot more excitement than we'd seen in years. He was never a defensive coach and Carl knew this better than anyone. Blaming him now, for every bad defensive player drafted is ridiculous.

For that matter was Grob even here when we drafted Siavii? Who was responsible for us drafting Keyaron Fox? What about Jared Allen? They were all drafted in 2004, under Gunthers watch.

Who was responsible for Kawika Mitchell and Jimmy Wilkerson? Likely the same guy that was responsible for us drafting Julian Battle. Grob.

You could argue that Gun hit on Fox & Allen but missed on Siavii and give him a 2 out of 3 rating for 2004. Then look at 2003 with Mitchell & Wilkerson and give Grob a 2 out of 5 rating for drafting Battle, Montique Sharp, & Willie Pile. Then look at 2005 and give Gun a 1 out of 4 rating for getting DJ coupled with Grigsby (who's now a fullback)Hodge and Khari Long.
What about Bartee? It's not as if Gun's selections have historically been much better than Grob's were.
Sure Sims ended up sucking ass, but it's not as if we were the only team that made the mistake of thinking he was 1st round worthy. Regarding Freeman, the guy was a beast his rookie year and anyone with any integrity will remember that. You don't have any way of knowing how a guy, with a little bit of money in his pocket, will do when coming back from injury, just take a look at Charles Rogers. But in my book he wasn't any worse a draft pick than Sly Mo was.

keg in kc · 05-12-2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralphy Boy

I'm sick to death of everyone blaming DV, on the bad draft choices WE made, regarding defense during his tenure. They make it sound as if Dick hand selected everyone of them. The guy gave us a lot of good memories and showed us a lot more excitement than we'd seen in years. He was never a defensive coach and Carl knew this better than anyone. Blaming him now, for every bad defensive player drafted is ridiculous.

Oh, we can talk about his offensive busts, if you want, as well. Whichever side of the ball, we drafted horribly while DV was here.

milkman · 05-12-2007, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralphy Boy

I'm sick to death of everyone blaming DV, on the bad draft choices WE made, regarding defense during his tenure. They make it sound as if Dick hand selected everyone of them. The guy gave us a lot of good memories and showed us a lot more excitement than we'd seen in years. He was never a defensive coach and Carl knew this better than anyone. Blaming him now, for every bad defensive player drafted is ridiculous.

For that matter was Grob even here when we drafted Siavii? Who was responsible for us drafting Keyaron Fox? What about Jared Allen? They were all drafted in 2004, under Gunthers watch.

Who was responsible for Kawika Mitchell and Jimmy Wilkerson? Likely the same guy that was responsible for us drafting Julian Battle. Grob.

You could argue that Gun hit on Fox & Allen but missed on Siavii and give him a 2 out of 3 rating for 2004. Then look at 2003 with Mitchell & Wilkerson and give Grob a 2 out of 5 rating for drafting Battle, Montique Sharp, & Willie Pile. Then look at 2005 and give Gun a 1 out of 4 rating for getting DJ coupled with Grigsby (who's now a fullback)Hodge and Khari Long.
What about Bartee? It's not as if Gun's selections have historically been much better than Grob's were.
Sure Sims ended up sucking ass, but it's not as if we were the only team that made the mistake of thinking he was 1st round worthy. Regarding Freeman, the guy was a beast his rookie year and anyone with any integrity will remember that. You don't have any way of knowing how a guy, with a little bit of money in his pocket, will do when coming back from injury, just take a look at Charles Rogers. But in my book he wasn't any worse a draft pick than Sly Mo was.

WTH are you talking about?

chop · 05-12-2007, 07:32 AM

Interesting...it tells you what Reed thought of Sims and Hicks. It isn't as if the Chiefs added two additional lineman they just replaced two. The only way Reed thinks he will get less playing time is if the guys coming in are better than the ones going out. So without actually saying it Reed basically said Hicks and Sims stunk.

StcChief · 05-12-2007, 07:43 AM

We know Sims/Hicks can't hack it now. (thanks Reed for stating the obvious now they are gone)

Hicks had 1 good year. Sims bust really from day one.... #6 overall in draft.

Hopefully the whining will end and HE and co. will have
good drafts (better than previous coaches).

They will miss occasionaly or we will be in SB regularly in a few years. (Wishful thinking)

05-12-2007, 04:53 AM
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Teicher: Chiefs Help Arrives Chiefs’ help arrives Newcomers, including defensive linemen, here for 3-day rookie camp. By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star Posted on Sat, May. 12, 2007 James Reed won’t be carrying any bags or fetching any meals this weekend for the Chiefs’ rookie defensive linemen. There’s only so far a veteran will go. But Reed, a starting defensive tackle for the Chiefs last year, is happy to have Turk McBride and Tank Tyler around. Their presence could bump Reed from the starting lineup, but it’s worth that to him if he doesn’t have to carry the burden he did last season. He played about two-thirds of the defensive snaps, a lot for the smallish Reed. The other line starters, ends Jared Allen and Tamba Hali and tackle Ron Edwards, played even more. “We just didn’t have reliable guys to go in, and so we had to stick it out whether we were tired or not,” said Reed, who joined the Chiefs last year after playing five seasons for the Jets. “That takes its toll. I played more last year than I ever did when I was with New York. I don’t want to have to do that again. It kills your legs. You can’t do the things you want when you’re not fresh. “You always want to see what the rookies look like. This year, you really want to see what the rookies look like.” The Chiefs today begin a three-day rookie camp, and the participants will include McBride, their second-round draft pick, and Tyler, their third-round choice. The Chiefs will begin to get a feel whether they have finally built the line depth that has eluded them since Chester McGlockton and Dan Williams were on patrol in 2000. At tackle, Tyler and free-agent pickup Alfonso Boone will join Reed and Edwards. Jimmy Wilkerson returns along with Allen and Hali at end. The Chiefs believe McBride can play either position. That would be depth they haven’t had at those positions in years if, of course, they drafted correctly. There’s the possibility they didn’t. The Chiefs repeatedly tried and whiffed in drafting defensive linemen under former coach Dick Vermeil. But last year, after Herm Edwards arrived as his replacement and vice president Bill Kuharich became a prominent voice in draft preparations, the Chiefs finally got one right when they picked Hali with their first choice. They are confident McBride and Tyler will follow. “The more you watch these guys play, the more you feel that they kind of fit the mold of what you’re looking for in defensive linemen,” Edwards said. “They’re kind of similar to Tamba. They play hard, and they have a lot of passion.” If Edwards is correct, the Chiefs have enough big bodies that they can withstand Allen’s season-opening four-game suspension and, later, an injury or two. Just as important, the starters won’t have to play as many snaps. “We’ve created the ability to rotate our defensive line,” Edwards said. “Last year, we got into some problems, especially late in games when guys got tired and we couldn’t get the pass rush we wanted. You really don’t want defensive linemen to play more than 50 plays. That’s asking too much on how we’re having them play. They have to be active in the running game, and they have to rush the passer.” The Chiefs blamed last season’s timid pass rush in part on a lack of fresh bodies. Line fatigue also was a problem against the run. “There were times when the other team has kept running the ball on us because they knew we were so tired,” Wilkerson said. “At times like that, you’ve just got to man up and hopefully stop them so you can get off the field and get some rest.” Reed doesn’t want to sound as if he’s complaining about having to play too much, but he does think he will play better by playing fewer snaps. He said he felt more comfortable re-signing with the Chiefs last month after they told him they planned to fortify the line through the draft. “You tend to save yourself when you know you can’t come out of the game,” he said. “If you go out there in the first half and lay it all on the line, you’re not going to have anything left in the second half. Now we’ll be able to go all out on every play.”
Posts: 58,682

05-12-2007, 05:07 AM	#2
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $952813	We'll have to wait and see if Herm can go 2 for 2 concerning the quality of his drafts on the defense __________________
Posts: 42,032

05-12-2007, 06:39 AM	#3
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	Yeah but my confidence in his draft ability is way more than DV.... with Bill Kuharich, Tim Krumrie, Gun's input picking D players is much better than DV with Grob. His picks while with in NYJ. and earlier with Chiefs in 90s.... give me confidence. Alot of anti-Herm sentiment is his offensive style. That may change with right players. Drafting Bowe could be the O spark we need. Solari's better not have sophmore blues.
Posts: 25,901

05-12-2007, 06:58 AM	#5
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	Anybody know a TRUE Gun's pick that was total bust.
Posts: 25,901

05-12-2007, 07:08 AM	#7
boogblaster MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Verdigris Valley Campsite Casino cash: $10004900	The TANK will roll.... __________________ WR or S please
Posts: 10,305

05-12-2007, 07:24 AM	#9
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	Were these guys total Gun 'gotta have' picks.....or desperation attempts. for King Carl to cheap out on.
Posts: 25,901

05-12-2007, 07:27 AM	#10
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Gun talked about Siavii like he was a long-lost bastard son he'd just found. Mike Cloud was a bust, gun 2nd rounder. Billy Bartee was a bust, gun 2nd rounder While he was a great special teamer, Gary Stills was a bust, as a gun 3rd round LB. Larry Atkins was a bust, gun 3rd rounder. Those are just his picks as a HC... Last edited by keg in kc; 05-12-2007 at 07:32 AM..
Posts: 58,682

05-12-2007, 07:27 AM	#11
Ralphy Boy MVP Join Date: Aug 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	I'm sick to death of everyone blaming DV, on the bad draft choices WE made, regarding defense during his tenure. They make it sound as if Dick hand selected everyone of them. The guy gave us a lot of good memories and showed us a lot more excitement than we'd seen in years. He was never a defensive coach and Carl knew this better than anyone. Blaming him now, for every bad defensive player drafted is ridiculous. For that matter was Grob even here when we drafted Siavii? Who was responsible for us drafting Keyaron Fox? What about Jared Allen? They were all drafted in 2004, under Gunthers watch. Who was responsible for Kawika Mitchell and Jimmy Wilkerson? Likely the same guy that was responsible for us drafting Julian Battle. Grob. You could argue that Gun hit on Fox & Allen but missed on Siavii and give him a 2 out of 3 rating for 2004. Then look at 2003 with Mitchell & Wilkerson and give Grob a 2 out of 5 rating for drafting Battle, Montique Sharp, & Willie Pile. Then look at 2005 and give Gun a 1 out of 4 rating for getting DJ coupled with Grigsby (who's now a fullback)Hodge and Khari Long. What about Bartee? It's not as if Gun's selections have historically been much better than Grob's were. Sure Sims ended up sucking ass, but it's not as if we were the only team that made the mistake of thinking he was 1st round worthy. Regarding Freeman, the guy was a beast his rookie year and anyone with any integrity will remember that. You don't have any way of knowing how a guy, with a little bit of money in his pocket, will do when coming back from injury, just take a look at Charles Rogers. But in my book he wasn't any worse a draft pick than Sly Mo was.
Posts: 5,088

05-12-2007, 07:32 AM	#14
chop Go Chiefs! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $2844270	Interesting...it tells you what Reed thought of Sims and Hicks. It isn't as if the Chiefs added two additional lineman they just replaced two. The only way Reed thinks he will get less playing time is if the guys coming in are better than the ones going out. So without actually saying it Reed basically said Hicks and Sims stunk. __________________ Never be satisfied with what you achieve, because it all pales in comparison with what you are capable of doing in the future.
Posts: 2,941

05-12-2007, 07:43 AM	#15
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	We know Sims/Hicks can't hack it now. (thanks Reed for stating the obvious now they are gone) Hicks had 1 good year. Sims bust really from day one.... #6 overall in draft. Hopefully the whining will end and HE and co. will have good drafts (better than previous coaches). They will miss occasionaly or we will be in SB regularly in a few years. (Wishful thinking)
Posts: 25,901