ChiefsPlanet - Chiefs Trade whatever possible for a LT prospect

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Trade whatever possible for a LT prospect (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=357091)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzy (Post 18078827)

My own opinion is that Veach basically said, Mahomes it's on you. Carry a crap offense to a Super Bowl. Then he invested the majority of his draft capital on defense. We were rewarded with a great defense, but the offense nosedived. As Mahomes was working with the worst Left Tackle and Receiving Corps in the league. In the end, he was right anyways. Because we won. But damn, it can't make Mahomes happy to have to constantly work with a shit sandwich. I'm glad Veach finally decided to help Mahomes out in the draft.

I think the narrative they've left Mahomes out to dry is overblown here.

The 23 season, they lost Smith-Schuster and Brown but had been the best offense in the league, and Mahomes had played exceptional football. Their plan at WR didn't work, Donovan Smith was fine at LT, Taylor was good when he wasn't being targeted because of Cris Collinsworth's hissy fit.

They had a real problem at WR that year and tried to address it. Hard to plan for losing your top WR, your number 2 WR, and your starting RB all by Week 4 (especially when those 3 are your explosive play guys on offense).

The numbers approach at LT didn't work, either. But they kept trying and pivoting and adjusting. It worked well enough to get to a SB. And then they double down on fixing it this offseason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 18078668)

Saw something eye opening from a redditor that compiled PFF stats.

In all 5 of Patrick Mahomes Super Bowls, he was pressured in the top 15 of all Super Bowls ever. He was pressured the 1st, 3rd, 9th, 14th and 15th in SB history.

“Every Super Bowl Mahomes has played in he has been pressured 40.7% of the time or more. That's more than 5 points higher than the average pressure rate of 35.1%. Of the 7 quarterbacks with multiple Super Bowl appearances, he is by far the most pressured on average.”

Only 2 QB’s have ever won facing among the 10 most pressures in a SB: Eli Manning and Patrick Mahomes. Eli is only on this list bc the Patriots and Giants are both top 10 in pressure from that game and somebody had to win.

The bottom line here is that Mahomes does create some of his own pressure, but we desperately need stability at LT.

It is one of the reasons I am in favor of taking a gamble on Josh Simmons.

5 different line combinations, same results.

Interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 18078901)

Well, let's look back at the context of it:

2013: Draft Fisher 1.1. He spends the year playing RT because KC has a LT already, before moving to LT in 2014.
2014: No T drafted. Bandaid at RT. Future starter at G (Duvarney-Tardif) drafted.
2015: No T drafted. Bandaid at RT. Immediate starter at C (Morse) drafted.
2016: No T drafted. Signed Mitchell Schwartz in FA. Drafted a G (Ehringer) they flipped for Charvarious Ward.
2017: No T drafted. Full on into the Fisher/Schwartz era, with them being one of the finer pairs of Ts in the NFL.
2018: No T drafted. Fisher and Schwartz era.
2019: No T drafted. Fisher and Schwartz era.
2020: Still Fisher and Schwartz era. Draft Niang round 3. Value-draft pick due to hip injury, that fell. Viewed as a potential 1st-round talent entering his last year of college. Development put into weird state first by COVID opt-out and then by his patellar tendon tear.
2021: First year post-Fisher and Schwartz. Trade 1st-round pick for known, NFL-caliber starter in Orlando Brown after trying to sign the top LT in Trent Williams. Draft Humphrey in 2nd and Trey Smith later. Perceived that Niang will compete at RT.
2022: Draft Kinnard in Round 5 (Orlando Brown returning, perceived as long-term fit, short-term options at RT).
2023: Have Donovan Smith as a band-aid. Take Wanya Morris in round 3. Jawaan Taylor signed to large deal to manage RT.
2024: No band-aid present, Donovan Smith a FA. Draft Kingsley Suamataia in round 2 to compete with Morris. It goes not well. Locked into Taylor at RT.
2025: Take swing on Simmons. Signed Jaylon Moore.

Looking back at the context that way, I'm pressed to find a year where I honestly can complain about them not spending a first-round pick. Maybe in 14 and 15 they should have taken some more stabs there.

But from 2016-2020, the Chiefs had an excellent T combo in their prime. Investing Day 1 or Day 2 picks at T would have been investing in guys you know are backups or that you're converting to G.

And they certainly have been investing since that blow up. First-round pick used to get Brown, signing Taylor, 2nd and 3rd round picks on developemental guys, now a first.

This is why I’m glad we took a real shot on a guy like Simmons as opposed to other developmental tackles. I’m just not interested in developmental tackles. Maybe bc Kingsley and Wanya were not worth it.

It feels like tackle is a spot, especially LT, that you have to use a first rd pick on to get a stable answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 18078929)

5 different line combinations, same results.

Interesting.

Patrick Mahomes has played in 5 Super Bowls.

He’s had a different LT in all 5.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 18078992)

Patrick Mahomes has played in 5 Super Bowls.

He’s had a different LT in all 5.

And same result every time.

What's that tell you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 18078997)

And same result every time.

What's that tell you?

It tells me a few things:

-Mahomes winning 3 Super Bowls down 10 pts with a 40.7 or higher pressure rate is absolutely insane and no other QB in NFL history could do that going by by the data
-LT is the 2nd most important position on the team as well as the 2nd most difficult to find if you are a consistent playoff team
-Taking a risk on Josh Simmons, and not taking a project, was 100% the right choice due to this data

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 18078915)

I think you're right about making an effort to at least provide a stop gap level at WR and Tackle the past few years. Problem is they didn't work out, but again, hard to argue with the results. We play in the Super Bowl every year. So going by results I can't argue with it. You just can't.

But my God Veach hung Mahomes out to dry in 2024 when it came to the Tackle spot. The Left Tackle spot was a total disaster. Probably the worst in the league.

The problem is there was no stop gap. Kingsley is a developmental tackle. I still Kingsley think has the ability to become a starting Left Tackle in the NFL. The issue is he was 4 or 5 years away. He was the definition of a developmental tackle. Excellent measurables, and zero technique. Kingsley wasn't just a year away, he was literally a half decade away from starting at Left Tackle. He's a guy you stash on the team as a swing tackle and pray to God he doesn't have to play for years while he develops technique. Kingsley does not know how to play Tackle. And Wanya was still a few years away too, although I doubt he has the natural ability to ever really become a starter caliber player anyways.

A developmental day 2 Tackle is not a terrible pick if he's actually developed. You don't actually start a developmental Tackle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 18078991)

A day 2 or 3 developmental Tackle is not necessarily a bad pick. The problem is when you start that Tackle. By definition a developmental Tackle is not ready to start in the NFL.

A 21 year old Tackle who doesn't know to play Tackle will go about as expected. Which means absolute and complete disaster.

I don't blame a 21 year old Tackle who is not ready to start at Left Tackle in the NFL. I blame the team for starting him. You have a guy who is clearly and obviously not ready to start. But you start him. That's on the team, not him.

Developmental tackle is a double edge because if they pan out toward the end of their rookie contract you’re now paying a guy a lot of money and not getting any years out of his rookie contract

Quote:

Originally Posted by xztop123 (Post 18079059)

Developmental tackle is a double edge because if they pan out toward the end of their rookie contract you’re now paying a guy a lot of money and not getting any years out of his rookie contract

Completely agree. And that is why plug and play Tackles go inside the top 15 almost exclusively. If you declare for the draft and you can start at Tackle day 1 then you're aren't making it past pick 10-15.

That's why the Simmons pick made sense. You take on the injury risk because it's the only way we can get a legit Tackle without trading our entire draft.

I'm probably gonna take some heat for this comment but not from those who see how Patrick refuses to stay in the pocket. The OL gets a bad rap sometimes because of his happy feet. Sometimes he puts unnecessary pressure on them to get minimal results. Andy is partially to blame. Why don't we run more slants with timing routes that force Pat to sit in the pocket? Just my .02. Sometimes it's not the OL...it's the offensive scheme and Pats unwillingness to trust his OL. How about a legit RB to keep defenses honest?