I'm genuinely curious here and not being an ass, but what MLB stars were average at best through their first 700 PAs? It'd be nice if just for once one of our big time prospects came out of the gate and just dominated.

Indeed.

Starling had some tools, but it was a pick the local guy to win the fanbase sort of move. In addition to being scared of repeating the Albert Pujols scenario.

It just seems to never happen for the Royals, top prospects always seem to struggle.

I agree with you on the last part, but as to the first part: David Ortiz, Craig Biggio, Edgar Martinez, Larry Walker . . . . . . all guys that have made the Hall in the last 7 years. It took a while for them to get going.

Let’s give Bobby some time to see what he can become. If we’re all still having this discussion 3 years from now, I’ll concede the argument.

Jeff Francoer. I think that is who Bobby is. Jeff came in at 21 or 22 and had some early success but his lack of plate discipline got him exposed a bit and he regressed a tad before having an average career.

When Jeff was 22 his OPS was .742 and 23 was .782. Hopefully Bobby Witt can be that good.

Time will tell.

That said, with your advanced scouting knowledge and comprehensive statistical analysis background, maybe you should apply for a job in MLB? Some team could certainly use your talents.

All I’m saying is maybe don’t openly root for the failure of a young Royals Top Prospect (to prop up another player) since you are supposedly a Royals fan too.

Fair enough?

You think observing things that are true is rooting for failure. I do not. I would love for all of our prospects to be good. I get frustrated when they arent but calling the kettle black is not rooting for failure.

You have torn BWJ down on here multiple times, sometimes with passive aggressive comments, because most on here believed BWJ to be a better big league prospect than your guy, Vinnie. We’ve all seen you do it. Just own it.

All I’m saying is let’s maybe give BOTH guys a little time before we make definitive conclusions about what their careers are going to be. Vinnie could turn in to Bob Hamelin for all you know. (unlikely, but stranger shit has happened with MLB young players who ‘burst’ onto the scene)

I would like for both Vinnie and BWJ (and MJM, fwiw) to become stars for the Royals. I would hope you do too. They need a solid young core of hitters. Way too many Royals top prospects have flamed out as hitters.

But let’s give ‘em all a few years to see what they will ultimately become . . . . . .

Francoer in 16 MLB seasons
6.8 war AB 5260

H 1373 HR160

BA.261

R 626

RBI 698

SB 54

OBP .303

SLG.416

OPS.719

OPS+9

Might be comparable to Moose. Came into the league at 22 as a top 10 prospect and was fine with the glove but about the same OPS+ as Booby. Got the nickname “Moustinkas” but then had 6-7 good offensive years. When we needed them too

Then he closed out his career ripping off the Reds for a cool $64M. Producing no WAR. The Reds must be exhausted by our used trash. Pawned Mike Minor on them last year, -0.4 WAR and ate his $9M salary

Witts first full season offensively is comparable to Francouers best seasons

My bigger surprise with Bobby is his inability to be consistent in the field. I was thinking he’d be amazing at short with his glove and speed but it hasn’t been so.

In reality he may be an OFer which to be that he needs to be better with the stick unless he's an elite player out there.

Salvy in the 2 hole tonight. Interesting. The lineup has Left, right look. I wonder what the data guys plugged in for this one.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here&#39;s how we&#39;ll take the field behind Mike Mayers as we look to even the series vs. the Tigers.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WelcomeToTheCity?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WelcomeToTheCity</a> <a href="https://t.co/P7OJxOwgBj">pic.twitter.com/P7OJxOwgBj</a></p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1661097541767778305?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 23, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This year he profiles as Lil Nicky. Would anyone ever put him in the OF?

Don't know if you need to do anything with Bobby at this point. It's not uncommon for guys to struggle their second year. Even Beltran had a drop off his second year. Julio Rodriguez has not been the same player this year either. Adley Rutschman has come back strong but he's also a couple years older than Julio and Bobby. Just let them work through it.

I feel like we had these exact same conversations with guys like Gordon and Moustakas.

Gordon had to go back to the minors and change positions.......and Moustakas took a good long time to ever put it together.

Good point on Julio...he already got paid too I believe

Yeah, average SS glove is not what I was expecting. If he can just hit like last year, then he's still pretty damn valuable. If he doesn't improve his hitting from his rookie year, then he just isn't that generational type guy that we were hoping he'd be, but he's still really young. I'm gonna give him until he's 24/25 before I decide that he's not that generational guy.

There is no way that he will keep sucking like he has been recently. He really has just been pretty unlucky. He's rocking a .253 BABIP and last year he had a .295 BABIP, which was within a couple of points of league average. He's increased his walk% from 4.8% to 5.2%, his EV has increased from 89.7 to 90.2 (league avg is 88.2), his hard hit % increased from 38.8% to 41.8% (league avg is 38.8%) and he has also increased his line drive % from 22.6% to 24.2% (league avg is 23.7%). He might be going oppo field too much as that went from 20.4% to 25% (league avg is 18.5%).

His BABIP should go back towards league average and if it does, then he should have a better season than last year with the bat.

For all the hype about Eric Squints Hosmer he sure is retiring with some average numbers

Was worth every penny the Royals ever paid him. IDGAF what he did post KC.

It's not based on 700 PAs, but here's who Baseball Reference lists today as the top 10 batters that are most similar to Bobby Witt through his age (22 years old):
https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...wittbo02.shtml

Name (Similarity Score)
Omar Infante (953.1)
Dick McAuliffe (953.0)
Asdrúbal Cabrera (950.5)
Luis García (950.4)
Tony Lazzeri (948.9) *
Ron Hunt (946.7)
Jackie Hayes (946.3)
Ron Hansen (944.4)
Alex Gonzalez (943.7)
Jorge Orta (943.0)

* signifies a Hall-of-Famer.

Only one of these guys were stars. This doesn't really answer my question.

With Witt, you hope it's a sophomore slump.

If you're convinced it is, this would be the perfect time to do the extension for him.

Previous regime would bet on his character and drive and try to make it happen. Not sure this one is willing to do that. Dumping Dozier before Memorial Day would seem to indicate otherwisde.

Royals are on the hook for Doz's salary. I assume

It's baseball. That money was guaranteed and sunk the second he signed the deal.

Those deals tell the tale of the small market. If you're right, it's a great value. If you're wrong, it's a mess and a real hindrance.

Sherman must have made the decision to allow a chunk of fairly big chunk of dead money....I cant recall that happening with the Royals in the last few years...maybe he will give it back like Gill

Dead money isn't a thing in baseball. There isn't a salary cap

I think it's time for Drew Waters to come up while he is scorching hot. Dudes been crushing it over the last week and has seemed to hit his stride.

cmon on out and play Billy boy

whats it called then?

That is just complete misinformation.

Francoeurs best seasons
1. 2005 (.884 OPS)
2. 2011 (.805 OPS)
3. 2007 (.782 OPS)

Or by WAR
1. 2005 (3.0)
2. 2007 (3.0)
3. 2011 (2.7)

Witt Jr so far
1. 2022 (.722 OPS and 0.9 WAR)
2. 2023 (.664 OPS and extrapolated to 0.9 WAR in full season)

Im really interested to see how he would do in the OF. I think he could be a really good one if he puts his mind to it. We wanted Hosmer to go to the OF too but he just pouted.

so, he had three seasons out of 16 better than Jrs first full season?

I would have loved to have seen Witt on a typical development schedule, but 2020 made sure it would never happen. Because he's not on a typical development schedule, there's not many good comps for him. I think he's in a unique situation in the draft era.

Dead money against the salary cap and dead money against a payroll budget is still dead money.

Hey man if you want to dream dream but this is where we are at for comps. He very well could exceed Frenchy. Or he might not. Nobody really knows. Francouers best years were actually his first few and one in KC later.

sorry B, I just dont see that comp at all

Well just to follow up on that Royals/A's game when the A's announcer accidentally used the wrong N-word in reference to the Negro Leagues Museum....he officially got fired today. Ridiculous.

Lefebvre and Hudler wanna make “Junior” a thing so bad….like we get it, shut the **** up already.

Saw that and decided I don't really care. Not my team, not my family member, not my concern.

Zack has been pretty damn good this year. If you take out that one start that he gave up 7 ER and include tonight's game, then he's at 3.69 ERA, 6 walks, 1.081 WHIP. He's by far out best pitcher and it's not even close.

Welp, Wittgren sucks….

Ehh he was supposed to be a star already, he is below average and I don't really have any hope for him in Kansas City. Once he is traded and tries to improve he will probably skyrocket.

Junior is such a stupid nickname. Just call him Witt.

Sometimes guys take a minute to mature. Definitely not below average and is just in a slump right now.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Have a debut, Noah Cameron. The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Royals</a> prospect made his AA debut tonight and pitched 7 scoreless innings. He retired 13 straight Drillers at one point. <br>The FB was 94-96. The CB was dominant.<br><br>It&#39;s the longest outing by a KC minor leaguer this season. 18 whiffs on 83 pitches. <a href="https://t.co/ggRyCw512b">pic.twitter.com/ggRyCw512b</a></p>&mdash; Preston Farr (@royalsminors) <a href="https://twitter.com/royalsminors/status/1661545686037561345?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 25, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Revisiting the Salvador Perez extension
Perez very well could be worth every penny the Royals pay him even at the end of this contract.

By RoyalTreatment on May 25, 2023 10:00 am


https://www.royalsreview.com/platfor...erez-extension

Shocker we told your dumbass plenty of times that it was worth it.

St joe represent!

Drew Waters is back
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have made the following roster moves: <a href="https://t.co/VSeUx5pKTK">pic.twitter.com/VSeUx5pKTK</a></p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1662185057337917463?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 26, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's about time.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Daniel Lynch (rotator cuff strain) was scheduled for a bullpen today in AAA. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Royals</a> have TBA listed as Sunday&#39;s starter in KC. Seems like Lynch is lined up for that spot. <br><br>Brad Keller (shoulder soreness) is scheduled for a bullpen tomorrow. No return timeline for him yet.</p>&mdash; Anne Rogers (@anne__rogers) <a href="https://twitter.com/anne__rogers/status/1662222821999939590?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 26, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

After the his Royals contract, teams will have paid Jordan Lyles 51 million to attempt to play baseball.

The guy simply must have the best agent ever. Hes always sucked. His entire life. And hes made 51 million. Just amazing. Good for him.

****ing Jordan Lyles is such absolute trash it's ridiculous. 11 starts 0-8 7.30 ERA, he has to be DFA'd for Lynch, right? They cant continue running a dude out there that has a 7.3 ERA. In his 11 starts, starting with the most recent (tonight) he's allowed 5, 4, 7, 4, 6, 7, 4, 3, 4, 5, and 1 earned run. That's ****ing pathetic.

I'd rather literally anyone in the minors be up pitching instead of this hunk of shit. How in the **** has this guy been in the majors for 13 years.

Why in the ever living **** did we give this shit stain a 2 year $17 million deal. That shit is ridiculous.

There's no way they'll get rid of Lylee they'd probably tell you he's doing his job because he's eating innings.

Too bad Bobby Witt sucks.

KEEP DOUBTING BOBBY WITT JUNIOR YOU ASSHOLE!!!!!

It would be such a bad decision to try to extend Bobby Witt Jr. We really, really shouldn't do it.

This is supposed to be Robin Yount, but an elite group to be with.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bobby Witt Jr. is the 5th shortstop ever, 22 or younger, to have a 4+ hit, 2+ HR, 4+ RBI game.<br><br>Robin Young (1978)<br>Carlos Correa (2017)<br>Gleyber Torres (2019)<br>Fernando Tatis Jr. (2021)</p>&mdash; Dave Holtzman (@DHoltzy) <a href="https://twitter.com/DHoltzy/status/1662286178043719680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's unbelievable and KC gave him his biggest contract ever at 32.5 years old and he's rewarding with -0.8 WAR as well as being one of the worst pitchers in the league! Yay!

A big frustration this year is that our pitchers seem incapable of stringing together a 1-2-3 inning the half inning after our offense comes alive.

Another play for the Olivares defensive reel. You just cannot have someone playing OF in the K doing that 2-3 times a week.

Cuas sucks ass. Plus 8 walks and 4 strikeouts by Royals pitching! Great performance!

As one of the unfortunate few souls out there that is both a Royals and Nats fan (I still watch at least a little of each game of both teams because apparently I hate myself), I am at least enjoying this ridiculous scoring game.

Just ****ing sickening.

Well if Olivares is going to be OPSing .670 and playing the worst D possible, the. There is no point of him being on the team taking ABs from guys.

Watching now in hopes of a cycle from Bobby.

Please dong here Salvy. You know you wanna

good to see Bobby Witt Jr had a hell of a game at least

Yeah time to move on. He isnt it.

taking at bats from who though?

Anyone less than 27. Put him back there. See how it goes. What are we trying to win games or something?

Nick Pratto sat the bench tonight, so him.

Has anyone been 0-9 before Memorial Day? That has to be a first


And nice FA signing for Pickle brain

Big game for Bobby. After a bad start that is exactly what he needs to get his confidence back. Hopefully he flies from here.

Yeah, I really hope this kick starts his MLB growth. Baseball is a tricky thing, maybe that game is what fully unlocks him.

The biggest problem with Lyles is with the injuries to Keller, Lynch, and Bubic he has to throw a lot more innings than he really should. No way he should see the lineup through 3 times. Yarbrough being hurt as well puts another wrinkle into. Lyles for about 4 and Yarbrough for 2 to 3 would be about right. The second year on his contract sucks.

Saw where we still owe Hunter Dozier 16 million dollars. Wow.

In an ideal world (or an ideal world post signing Jordan Lyles) you would be correct. But they literally brought Lyles in for the expressed intent of throwing tons of innings. It's as if the brass was like "Well, we know this Lyles guy is used to getting his ass kicked so mentally he can take it, let's bring him in". You're gonna see Lyles pitching 6-7 innings all season long. Although he will usually give up 5 plus runs in those outings. I might even sign up for 7 innings with "only" 5 runs allowed every time he goes out there.