Wanya played mostly RT in college. I think he will be just as good as Taylor at RT. Asking Taylor to play LT is not an easy transition. I’m hopeful that Wanya can be our future RT.

I think he can be a credible RT as well.

He looked pretty good at RT against Houston. He looked pretty good at RT against Denver.

He definitely looked more comfortable. Perhaps that was smaller sample sizes, perhaps it was familiarity. Maybe it was just that the guys knee starts barking at him when he has to play 60+ snaps instead of 30.

I really don't have that answer. But I just don't get this idea that he's some bum.

If we cut him loose, I absolutely think he'd land on an NFL roster. That's not a bust as a late 3rd round pick.

If he was anywhere near as good as you think he was they wouldn't have plugged Donovan Smith back in for the playoffs in 24 or had him completely inactive in 25. There are guys up and down the roster on every team playing hurt and injured come January, and if a bone bruise suffered in early August crippled him to that point (which it didn't since he played in multiple meaningless games) the. We have a different problem with him.

I think that’s a big reason why they drafted Chamarri Conner. Josh Williams has been awful on ST’s. Constantly getting penalties. I’m inclined to think that’s on the player, bc Spags wouldn’t even put him on the field bc the kid has a seizure when he’s forced to play any zone coverage. He was constantly in the wrong spot at the wrong time.

I would be hard pressed to find a better ST’s coach than Toub recently. That Chenal XP block was critical in our SB win. He also blocked another one in the playoffs this year. Remigio with multiple good returns. Winning us the Broncos game. Have multiple kickers off the street go 11/12.

Butker alone is worth keeping Toub. One of the 5 biggest reasons we are a dynasty with kick after kick after kick. He’s the 2nd most accurate kicker ever only bc he had a down year due to a leg injury in 2022.

He’s not perfect by any means but people wanting this guy fired are nuts.

If they thought he was a long term LT, he'd not be playing LG.

I'm perfectly fine with this being the plan, which is another reason I just can't see taking a tackle in round one. This team needs a day one impact player. I understand how important the tackle position is long term, and I definitely want another one in the early rounds, but not in the first.

I also really think Jaylon Moore could very well be the guy we're looking for at LT, and I think you should give him at least a year to show what he can do before already drafting his potential replacement. You know what his floor is, and if his ceiling doesn't end up being there you can look at a tackle in 2026.

Yup. Again it’s a CP overreaction. Creed is the best C in football, Trey was a pro bowler who got all-pro votes. Allegretti was a 6th rd pick who got paid to be a starter, Wylie was a journeyman when he got here and Heck got his ass paid too.

The fact that Wanya was a functional tackle for stretches of the last 2 seasons is a success. He’s a swing tackle. None of those guys are long term solutions.

And people bitch about Jawaan as if the penalties aren’t who he was and will be. Sean Payton is an excellent offensive coach and his staff can’t even fix Garrett Bolles who has also been a penalty drive machine is entire career.

I’m convinced the folks that want these coaches fired need to be tied up and forced to watch the 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011 or 2012 Chiefs to see bad coaching.

It’s like people are just picking holes to be angry. This is an elite coaching staff. I wish people would enjoy it instead of shit on it constantly.

They very well could have determined that the LG spot is his best fit in this offense, we don't really know what actually went on behind the scenes. For there to be such an abrupt decision made, it was clearly agreed upon by all parties. It may have been Kingsley straight up told them he was more comfortable there, who knows.

If he turns into even 75% of what Thuney was, it's still definitely not a sunk cost. To get 3 years of solid LG play on a rookie deal is something I'll take every single day and call that pick a win.

I don't know if that's entirely true, there's still a chance, all be it slim we see him at LT. Going to guard isn't a bad thing especially when you have your confidence pretty much neutered at LT.

Using his as a reason to not draft a T prospect, if he's a G now, is sunk cost.

Whatever happened with him is irrelevant

And I don’t trust Moore. I’m glad we have him but we need to draft a LT prospect somewhere in this draft. Moore looks more like a guard to me. He did ok but Moore is not an elite mover or athlete and Moore also has short arms. I think that 49ers offense protected him. We need more depth at LT and we need competition at LT. This is a deep draft at DT and RB. This is not a deep LT draft. Why not draft a LT in the first and fill the other needs later? Just because we take a DT in the 2nd doesn’t mean that the 2nd rounder won’t have an impact. Saying, we have to have impact from our 1st round pick doesn’t take into account the depth at DT in this draft. We can get a DT in the 2nd round that can impact this team and a we could get an RB later that can also have impact. We can’t just say, we need an impact player in round 1. Take the best value at an important position in round 1 when considering the positions of depth in this draft.

I think they pulled KS because he just wasn't ready and they didn't want to ruin him. In the end in a meaningless game they got him some playing time at G. It's hard to believe that they would give up that fast on a player that they used a fairly high draft pick

I really wish people would stop insinuating that moving him to guard is giving up on him in some way. It's entirely possible all parties involved have determined his best fit in this offense is inside. I get that LG isn't technically as important of a position as LT, but it is still vital, especially in this scheme.

If he's a serviceable LG on a rookie deal for the next 3 years, I'll still chalk that up as a draft pick win.

THEY should have given him more time and the same help, chipping, and scheme as THEY did for all of the other players who played that position this year, yet THEY did not give him that help or the time to grow.

Sheesh man the next 14 days can't pass by soon enough, I'm ready to see this argument put to bed once and for all

If he’s a decent playable G for cheap for 3 years then it’s a successful pick. He was the 63rd overall pick pick. 2 picks from the 3rd rd.

It's funny how perspectives change over time (and winning).

I remember the Mitch Morse draft and arguing with folks for that very reason. Folks were livid we took a guy who profiled as an interior lineman and probably a C in the 2nd round.

And my answer was always "Man, if you can get a high floor, reliable player at a position of ANY importance in the 2nd round, you do that and call it a win..."

Now the loudest arguments made in favor of Kingsley are that if he makes that transition, it's a win.

Yeah, there shouldn't be any bitching if KS ends up a good LG. Creed was the 63rd overall pick as well. I don't see people complaining about taking an OC at that spot.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ohio St. OT Josh Simmons is visiting today with the Colts and Friday with the Chiefs.</p>&mdash; Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1910480701356450076?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 10, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I feel like Simmons would have to be a trade up at this point.

Because they were proven wrong. Repeatedly.

15 years ago they'd have bitched a blue streak.

This board hates any OL that isn’t Will Shields or Willie Roaf so that makes perfect sense unfortunately

“Mr. Simmons this is Rick Burkholder. He will be your primary contact for the day”

Or John Alt and Dave Szott...

This is ok with me. There is a lot of talent that will be taken before we get to pick, so one more guy in that group actually helps us because it pushes someone down to #31 that would not have been there otherwise.

Matt Miller said on Verderame’s show that Josh Simmons should be there around the 20’s barring a major surprise and the Chiefs are very interested.

As much as folks don't like it, the reasoning is obvious: if (IF) his meds check out with Burkholder, that’s a top 15 player falling due to injury that can play LT or RT (played RT at San Diego State).

They just don’t have this opportunity ever happen and they’re exploring it. If they take him I’d get it. And this draft affords them to pass on a DL in the first rd if they do this.

I mean, I get it. But it just makes me super nervous.

I don't care if it's sound "now." Find me an NFL player who was ever the same after tearing it. I've tried. I can't.

You have some guys that have come back who become starters again, but there is literally not one I can find that was "the same."

No ****ing thanks.

Wrong.....I just want the guy best suited to cover the blind side of our Elite QB.

I could give a hoot that he is Will Shields, Willie Roaf, John Alt or Dave Szott reincarnated....

I just want the guy who will do the job protecting Mahomes....later on down the road we can compare him to the other greats mentioned above.

The Jaylon Moore deal makes sense even more if this is their guy. A 2 year deal while Simmons gets back up to standard. Now, is that a guy worth dumping multiple picks into? I don't think so, but an LT with that potential upside? I get it.

Jimmy Graham had a 10, 6 and 8 TD season as well as other productive years after his. Only one I can find.

But yeah it scares the shit out of me.

A lot of what we do on day 2 will determine that pick. If the Chiefs get a DT like Farmer/Sanders at 63 and a DE like Burch at 66 while taking a dynamic RB of their choice at 95 like Sampson, Tuten etc then I think people will feel way better about it.

It’s a huge gamble though. Huge reward if it works out.

Simmons played RT at San Diego state so he’s pretty versatile. Theoretically if Jaylon Moore looks like a solid LT this year and they want to keep him, they can have Simmons replace Jawaan in 2026 and save a ton of money.

Let me see how well I can make this point -- perhaps I've airmailed it a time or two.

What makes a 1st round pick is usually a sort of calculus considering 2 things -- ceiling and floor -- right?

An early/mid 1st rounder is a guy with a high ceiling who also has a good floor and who is likely to contribute right away. The ability to play early is priced into the equation. A healthy Simmons qualifies here.

A high floor, low ceiling player is usually a 2nd round pick or maybe a 3rd, right (Mitch Morse)?

And a high ceiling, low floor pick is also usually a 2nd round pick (the floor is what takes a lot of 2nd rounders out of the 1st round). A OL with technique issues (Patrick Paul). A DL with pad level/motor concerns (Chris Jones) a WR with quality of competition questions (Rice and Skyy).

So why should I care that Josh Simmons would have gone from 10-15 had he been healthy? When it's partially the ability to contribute early and high floor that is what pushed him there? When the floor is what it is due to injury rather than technique or whatever, that's STILL the floor.

Take that ability to contribute early away and the high floor away and what do you have? Well you have a guy with a reasonably high ceiling (but not an elite one) and a very low floor.

Isn't that just a 2nd round pick? Isn't that similar to so many other guys that get drafted on Day 2 ever year that need to be coached up? Isn't that Kingsley? It's just another guy with a 1st round ceiling and a 7th round floor that ends up getting them drafted on Day 2.

What MAKES a 1st round pick in many instances, especially when you're not looking at QB, is their ability to immediately produce and the relatively safe nature of the pick. Neither of those things exist here. So why should we give a rip about them at all? Simmons ceiling isn't higher than may of the 2nd day picks we see every year. I don't see a 10 year All Pro in terms of talent.

In terms of Ohio State lineman he's MUCH more Taylor Decker than Orlando Pace. And in terms of floor he's more Kinnard than Creed.

Folks are just so focused on a high but not elite ceiling that they continue to blow right past the fact that ceiling alone doesn't get very many people drafted that high unless that ceiling is sky high -- I just don't see it with Simmons and even the supporters of the pick aren't claiming it exists. "He'd have been a top 15 pick" is nothing like "He'd be Joe Alt..."

I’m actually out on Josh Simmons bc of other reasons. Matt Miller talked in depth about Simmons character concerns and it makes me nervous.

Some people legitimately wonder if he even liked football that much. That’s not Chris Jones taking plays off in college. That’s way more concerning to me.

Again if they took him I’d get why, but man he is too risky for me. If I’m a GM I’m nervous as hell about him.

Yeah, but he wasn’t close to the same guy. He was still huge and a red zone target, but he wasn’t the explosive nightmare matchup who dominated like he was before the injury.

And that’s the BEST case I can find, too.

It’s terrifying.

I’d be fine throwing a Day 3 at him but I am terrified about spending a first or trading up.

Even most of the highlight films from him show him being fairly dominant against poor competition at San Diego State on the right side or run blocking at Ohio State.

His pass pro reps from the left side at Ohio State are...fine. They're not amazing. And his best reps in pass pro came as a RT in the Mountain West. And as noted previously, the recent history of OTs from Ohio State is pretty poor. Paris Johnson and Nicolas Petit-Friere have been very underwhelming (I think NPF is a free agent at the moment). And when you start to look at his Ohio State clips you start to maybe get a feeling as to why - they have those guys mostly just going out there and mauling in the run game. They have very real issues in pass protection and don't seem to do a ton to develop it.

I just don't understand the helium here.

There are just soooooo many red flags.

Having him come in to KC on a publicly announced visit aint going to help either. Teams know they are are at least interested in Simmons for the right draft pick.

Yeah, I'm stubbornly sticking to my Egbuka/Burden dream over Simmons. I'd take Conerly over Simmons, or any of the defensive tackle/EDGE guys projected around us. Or a couple of the corners.

I just don't want Simmons. Maybe I'd reconsider if he's still there at 63 or 66.

I feel that is a whole misdirection ploy at this point. The league knows we need to fix left tackle, to let's make them believe we're zeroed in on left tackle. But GM's aren't dumb; they understand what we're doing.

No shit. If he works out at LG, thats a great pick.

Also Moore looked good to serviceable at RT last year, we will need one next year. If that works out too, it'll be a great pick.

Yeah - we know Veach will use official visits as smokescreens - he's said as much.

If they REALLY wanted to do this quietly, it wouldn't have been hard. They could've done that top 30 visit under the radar if they really wanted to.

And hell, maybe it's just to decide if they want to keep him on their draft board at all -- that certainly doesn't mean he's a primary target for them. Teams will use top 30 visits on guys they look at in the 5th round.

I'm just not sure there's much to take away from it.

I presume you mean Morris?

Moore's looked bad every time he's played RT.

I just ask for one thing. We know he’ll get a few DL. We know he’ll get a RB somewhere.

Please get another WR early. My God do we need it. Badly. And please get a RB who can be a lethal receiver with speed.

The offense has been painful to watch the last 2 years in large part due to slow or bad playmakers. We badly need to add more there.

Help your HOF QB Veach

I still think a trade up with Seattle works. Seattle has been mocked taking a guard in many drafts. They need interior lineman.

Seattle gets:
Smith
#31
2026 4th

Chiefs get:
#18

Can grab a Dline or Simmons or who ever at this point. I still think Veach will move Smith and not make him the highest paid guard. Seattle makes to much sense.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Yes sir! Get Simmons! Ya gotta take a chance. The risk/reward is worth it. It would probably cost three 1st round picks to trade up to get a top 10 talent like Simmons at LT. Is it a huge risk? Absolutely but the reward is bigger if Simmons plays well. If the medicals check out and his workout shows he can move, go get Simmons. He already showed some impressive movement at his pro day for the injury being that recent. These young guys heal up better!

You don't, though.

You don't have to take this chance. This guy isn't an Orlando Pace-level talent who is falling because of questionable medicals.

He would only have been a top 10 talent in this draft because it's a weak LT draft.

It's an enormous risk. Try to find an NFL player who was the same after this injury. You won't. He doesn't exist.

Taking huge swings like this is one of the quickest ways to short-circuit your program.

The chiefs will get to work him out and test his leg. The chiefs will get to see him move and test him. It’s not a complete roll of the dice here. You are undervaluing the medical testing. You don’t tear your patella tendon and be able to move like it’s healed when it’s still injured. The chiefs aren’t that stupid to know the history of these injuries and not evaluate the risk. Simmons has already worked out at his pro day. I’m sure they will test his movement again and see how well he does. Simmons has said that he will be ready by training camp. I’m not sure if the injury history that you’re looking at is for old or young players but the medical treatment for knee injuries has improved in the last decade and that’s about when Jimmy Graham was hurt, 2015. Plus Simmons is only 22. These young guys can heal up better. Look at Simmons move here. Simmons might be right. He might be ready by training camp!

https://youtube.com/shorts/_EHG-gpa2...H0zyoQ0ZVhNJw-

He played left guard in one game basically. Until they open camp and he's the starter, I don't think you can just assume he's a LG.

Once again, you just don't understand the nature of his injury. It's healed. He's not going to show signs of injury in his evals.

The problem is that this injury, when it heals, often leaves the player "less" than what he was. You CANNOT ascertain that in workouts. You will only know once he enters a real game and by then it's too late.

Josh Simmons should be taken off the board unless he falls, falls, falls.

Agree to disagree. I trust the medical evaluation that the chiefs have in place. And pace is not a fair comp. Pace was the number overall pick in 1997 and a HOF player. Just in terms of value and projection (not a ceiling or floor analysis), Simmons probably does compare to Paris Johnson who was the 6th overall pick in 2023. I’m hoping that Simmons will be more successful than Paris but the point I’m making is the value. What would it cost to move from 31 to 6? I’m guessing three 1st round picks if not more. So, the point is getting a CHANCE at a long term LT like Simmons or Paris would cost us three 1st round picks. The payoff for hitting on a 1st round LT at the back of the first on a cheap 5 year contract is like winning the lottery. The reward is huge on the risk/reward analysis.

Don't like a 300+ lineman coming off that injury. Anything is possible, but I'm guessing J. Simmons will go in the 2nd round.

Agreed. I don’t but the chiefs do understand this injury and the risk, if they trade up for Simmons or just take him at 31, I’ll trust that & understand the risk and I’ll be excited. If they pass on Simmons, I get it also.

Don’t forget that Mims was taken at 19 last year and had a terrible injury history and missed time in his first year. I think Mims only started in like 8 games in college and got picked that high because of that huge reward of hitting on a long term franchise tackle.

Medical evaluations won't identify anything. How do you not understand this? Do you just not want to hear the truth?

You can't compare him to Mims. The injuries aren't the same.

Let’s just see what happens. This will be fun to come back to. You might be right.

Agreed but Simmons has 3 seasons of starting experience to look at. Mims had very little tape to watch. And couldn’t get healthy enough to start more than like 8 games. So, it’s not the same injury but Mims injury history wasn’t ideal. I just trust the medical staff and if they take a chance, I’ll be excited plus I think we can get a talented contributor for dline with the 2nd pick. Let’s just drop it. We can agree to disagree and argue about something else.

Paris Johnson just isn't the feather in your cap you think it is.

A) I think (and thought at the time) that Paris Johnson was overdrafted. That said, in a similar (read: not particularly good) draft for OTs he was a guy that would've been in the mix for the best OL in that draft along with Skoronsi, Wright, Jones and Harrison -- similar to this season w/ Simmons if you presume health. But ultimately, Johnson should've gone nearer 12-15. Which is to say that yes, they may be comparable prospects, but to say that makes Simmons a "6th overall value" is just wrong. Johnson was an overdraft at the time and has proven to be since.

B) NONE of 'em have been very good. The best one had to move inside to OG to find traction in Tennessee. That was a draft full of 'Offensive Tackles' who profiled better at guard and full of guys with limited ceilings/traits. It's turned out exactly as it looked like would and provides a cautionary tale rather than a blueprint as we approach the 2025 draft.

C) Paris Johnson didn't have the injury risk and had a better pedigree along with better track record and more standout physical tools.

"Man, what if he's healthy and is another Paris Johnson" isn't the win you think it is, IMO. And as previously noted, that's the same system that Simmons would be coming from but without the track record, traits, pedigree or accolades that Johnson earned in that same system. There is very little cause to believe he'd be even as good as Johnson.

And that's IF he's healthy.

Simmons has more upside than Ceh? Ceh short circuited us?

Sure, the reward is big. The risk is higher.

Yes, they can evaluate the knee now and see if it's sound, examine the scans, see what things are looking like inside the knee, and things like that.

But they can't evaluate from workouts in shorts and t-shirts ... how much of his former level of ability and explosiveness has been regained. And the history on this is TERRIBLE. Historical and recent.

Jack Conklin tore his patellar tendon in 2021 and (1) hasn't been the same since, even after being cleared medically (2) has had a bunch of other lower-body injuries. Niang had this injury and hasn't ever looked remotely like the guy he was before it.

The outlook sucks.

If the Chiefs take him, I'll hold my breath and cross my fingers and hope it works out. But I sure as shit don't think it's a slam dunk, Einstein move. And I wouldn't take the risk.

I want to draft the next Jonathan Ogden.

Maybe Willie Roaf.

The experience with Niang will inform KC’s moves. You’re kind of discounting medical science, physical therapy and function testing if you honestly think they’re blind to what the probable outcome will be.

I don’t think they’re blind to it. I think some Chiefs fans and national media are being blind to it.

The sample size of NFL players who have had this injury is small, but the data we do have is AWFUL.

I don't agree and believe that Simmons would have actually been the top LT of this draft. Go look at how he was doing before getting injured. He was ELITE.

He played Akron, Western Michigan, Marshall, a god-awful Michigan State team and Iowa - the same forgettable lunchpail Iowa they always are.

Murderer's freakin' row, right there.

Then he got hurt against Oregon (after first not playing very well) in a game they lost.

THAT'S your amazing tape that's supposed to prove that this guy was going to be the best OT in the class?

Nah -- it isn't.

You read it somewhere. And now you're repeating it.

There is nothing resembling enough tape out there to say he'd have been the best LT in this class. It's nothing more than the mystery of the unknown. It's the draft season equivalent of "To an Athlete Dying Young".

Smart lad, to slip betimes away, from fields where glory does not stay...

There is not the volume or quality of competition to come to that conclusion. At ALL. The guy got hurt before that could be established so folks just up and projected a clean Big 10 season for him.

Meanwhile Kelvin Banks and Armand Membou, with better competition by FAR and a full season of reps, simply looked better than him. Conerly was on par and isn't hurt. Anthony Belton DOMINATED the same kind of competition that Simmons played before he got hurt.

I mean hell, the team got no worse at all without him. Donovan Jackson stepped in for Simmons after he got hurt and was almost as good against substantially better quality of competition. Why should I believe that Ohio State just happened to have a guy almost as good as the best LT in the country just bopping around at guard?

The kids a quality prospect. Maybe he gets back to 100% and is a coaches dream and eventually becomes a premier LT in the league.

But YOUR argument is complete nonsense that is wholly unsupportable by any record you can possibly produce.

Yes, a typo.

Not in this draft.

I can agree with that. I don’t know much about the medical. I would hope that the medical staff could evaluate that but I don’t know.

Do yall like this guy, in the link below? He just happens to be on my side on this. I do think Simmons should be ready by the playoffs, which he acted like wasn’t a possibility. He could be useful year 1.

https://youtu.be/Zk7rIJfiDjk?si=9WED48fSVE6R2pKF

ROFL.. They aren't putting a rookie out there in a playoff gm. It would be a redshirt year for him...

I don’t like that guy.

He is a dope. If he’s all in on Josh Simmons, it’s a great sign that Josh Simmons is a bad idea.

You keep saying "The medical staff will evaluate Simmons" as if evaluating him is going to not only provide a sure answer to his future but also guarantee that it's positive. I know that's not what you mean, but you seem to be ignoring the definite (and I'd say likely) possibility that the Chiefs medical staff has some information on Simmons, and they're telling Veach to stay away.

I thought Simmons also played LT for Ohio State the season before last? Regardless, I like Conerly better. His only real knock is strength, but he's only 21, so plenty of room to develop in that area.

I hate his Vids on YouTube....just way too much fluff for my taste. And Chiefs Report by Chat Sports....that's another one that is annoying.

I saw that video last night. I thought if the guy fell to us, we have to take him.

But, after hearing from DJ, Duncan and others, whose opinions I value on players alerted me to the history of patella injuries. That's a long odds to beat.

If he worked out, that would be fantastic. But, you are betting on those long odds playing out in your favor. AND giving up a chance to get a top starter at DT.

Imagine what Jones could disrupt if they had another threat at DT, not just a JAG.

He did.

But he wasn't standout - just solid. Fringe top 50 sort of pick - not seen as any sort of elite OT prospect until he started beating on rummies to start the season.

Guys that have fallen behind him like Belton and Millum all started the 2024 season ahead of him. Even guys like Emery Jones and the AZ kid whose name I can't spell. They were considered better prospects than Simmons until Simmons beat the brakes off...Akron.

His 1st round grade right now from anyone that put him there is based on nothing more than projecting what he did against bad competition and presuming it would've translated had he not gotten hurt.

It's folly coming and going, really.

So, If this is common knowledge and Veach selects him, what does that mean? Our Doctors have a different opinion? We are desperate for a LT? etc.

It would mean either our doctors are sure he’ll be the same, or they’re letting desperation guide them into a bad pick.

Conerly is very similar in ranking as to what Kingsley was last year. Some people have Ersery as a better prospect.

Just curious on if he matched up aginst Green from Marshall or if Green was on the other edge? Green is not really a rummie.

Now as far as the health issue? That's another matter.

I will say it again - Simmons won't fail any medical tests. He's "healed". What nobody knows is whether or not he will still be a good player and they won't know until he plays. Again, if he drops, take him if that's what they think they need. Hopefully they have better options.

It means they're comfortable making that projection.

Or that they're willing to do so in the absence of a better option.

Both Conerly and Simmons will need a redshirt year for different reasons. Conerly needs to get stronger, and Simmons won’t even be a year into his recovery by the time the season starts. Not ideal for a first round pick. I also read an article where a Pro Scout referred to Simmons as “kind of a fuck” which I didn’t love.