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donkhater
01-03-2001, 05:51 AM
The more I watch this guy, the more I think he should be our first round pick, if he lasts that long. The really good run defenses in the league have very good middle linebackers. Seau, Thomas, Lewis, Kirkland to name a few. This guy would be a big key to the defense stuffing the run.

Morgan, Maslowski and Edwards at LB. OUCH!!!

Gaz
01-03-2001, 07:23 AM
Amen.

xoxo~
gaz
DanFan.

ct
01-03-2001, 07:26 AM
I did not get to watch much of the game last night. Trade off thing, since the Mrs. isn't into College game: pass on the Suger, bring on the Oranges instead. Seems like a fair trade to me. I had baby duty last night so she could get some rest.

Anyway, what little I did see, Morgan was ALL over the field. I'd be very pleased if Danny Morgan is our #1 pick.


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ct

Forget Dillon! [b]Give TRich the Ball!!!</B>

ChiTown
01-03-2001, 07:32 AM
From everything that I have heard, it appears that the Chiefs are more likely to draft a DB. They are talking about the DB from Wisconsin (the name escapes me though).<P>

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 07:40 AM
Jamar Fletcher is the guy you are thinking of...That is very possible so is Fred Smoot CB from Mississippi State. But they are in a position that they can't really show their hand too much. Despite picking fairly early, there are several teams that would trade up and jump ahead of us if they were targeting the same guy.

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

HC_Chief
01-03-2001, 07:43 AM
yep! :D

We will probably need to move up a few spots - this guy is no 'diamond in the rough': everyone knows about him.

ck_IN
01-03-2001, 08:01 AM
Don't take this as a negative because it's not the intent, but.....

It always seemed that Morgan was making the tackle several yards downfield last night rather than at the LOS or in the backfield. Is that a function of defensive schemes, FL blocking, or what?

D. Lewis was also impressive last night. I'm still leaning towards a D tackle as our bigger need in terms of run stuffing. I'm counting on nothing from Williams and little from Glock, thus I see a hole in the middle.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 08:14 AM
CK IN,

The biggest reason for that is the fact that Florida is almost exclusively a pass team...He had to play in pass coverage most of the night, thus the majority of his tackles can't be at the line or in the backfield. Against a team like Florida is the hardest type of scheme for a LB to look good and the easiest for a defensive lineman...The D lineman can just pin their ears back and not worry about the run...That is why the few times Florida did run the ball they broke some long ones...

If you noticed, when Morgan didn't make the tackle he was almost always the next guy coming...He very rarely lets anybody take him out of the play....Flordia has a ton of speed yet there was not a RB or WR that could out run Morgan, he chased all of them down from any angle on the field.

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Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon

[This message has been edited by jl80 (edited 01-03-2001).]

HC_Chief
01-03-2001, 08:25 AM
What I like about Morgan is the fact that the guy always completes the tackle!!!!!!!!! FFS, our D is horrible at tackling. Perhaps he and Maz can teach a few of the vets how it's done! http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

ck_IN
01-03-2001, 08:28 AM
Thanks J80, I took that into account, which is why I watched particularly close in the 2nd half when FL started running the ball more.

You are right he was in on almost every play and I do love his hustle, I'm just curious about how much of a run stuffer he really is. Even in the 2nd half the runner seemed to be tackled several yards downfield. Perhaps it was just a matter of playing the pass first.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 08:33 AM
CK IN,

That was definitely the case...Even when FLA ran the ball, they were in a 3 or 4 WR set pass formation and ran the ball off of a draw most of the time. Florida's normal game plan plus the fact that they were behind forced Miami to have to play the pass and pay much less attention to the run...I got to watch him play about 5 or 6 times this year and he is outstanding at blowing up running games before they ever make it past the line of scrimage...

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

Gaz
01-03-2001, 08:42 AM
Most of the updated drafts have Morgan moving up out of our range. Most see him going to the 49ers, which, unfortunately, makes sense. I still think that OLB is our primary need in the draft [as I would not draft a HB]. What do you folks think about Tommy Polley?

xoxo~
gaz
expects the 49ers to crash the Morgan bandwagon.<BR>

HC_Chief
01-03-2001, 08:43 AM
Tell you what, I would not be upset if we take Travis Henry in the 12th spot (if we cannot move up for Morgan).

Gaz
01-03-2001, 08:47 AM
HC_Chief-

Conceded, we need a HB more than we need an OLB, but I think we should either go after Garner or Barber with Richardson for a "thunder and lightning" attack. Another alternative is to get a blocking FB in FA and make Richardson the featured HB.

Of course, I am an admitted Defensive Homer, so I am not entirely objective [or rational] on this issue.

xoxo~
gaz
at least knows he is prejudiced.<BR>

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 08:47 AM
Gaz,

I have above average interest in Polley. He has had knee problems in the past so that gives me mild concern...If my heart gets broken and we can't land Morgan I would not mind getting Polley but would perfer to move back to do so...But if we can't get Morgan and still go with a LB, I would prefer to trade down in the draft and go with Markus Steele of USC or Quenton Caver of Arkansas...

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 08:50 AM
I really like Travis Henry but this draft is loaded with late 1st and 2nd round talent at RB...Because of that I think we could get him with our 2nd round pick unless he burns a low 4.4 or better at the combine.

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

ChiTown
01-03-2001, 08:50 AM
HC

You don't think that T. Henry will be available in the 2nd rd.? I see him slipping a bit, not because of his latest performances, but because of the lack of barnburner talent at that position in the draft. I see teams thinking they can get the T. Henry's of the world in the 2-4th rds. JMHO.<P>

Brock
01-03-2001, 09:00 AM
The 49ers are creaming in their shorts over Morgan, as are the Bears.

Brock
01-03-2001, 09:00 AM
dup

[This message has been edited by Brock Landers (edited 01-03-2001).]

donkhater
01-03-2001, 09:00 AM
I don't know if any of you saw this particular play last night, but Florida handed the ball off to the back and he bounced in outside, got around the corner and took off down the field.

Morgan was being blocked inside by the tackle on the sweep side, so initially he was pinned, but as back was running down the sideline, out of nowhere came Morgan to tackle him. A middle LB with that kind of speed and motor is rare (he's a big fella too). Sure he'll get blocked sometimes, who doesn't? But he seems to get after it. Kind of reminds me of a bigger, cleaner Romo.

donkhater
01-03-2001, 09:05 AM
I think all of you are right though. I can't imagine SF not drafting this guy. Rumor is that they'll have to cut Ken Norton Jr. to make salary cap room and maybe even Winfred Tubbs. LB would be a big need for them.

HC_Chief
01-03-2001, 09:06 AM
I do not think T Henry will last into the 2nd round. There are a lot of teams out there with RB needs - and Henry has quietly improved his stock this season. He has very good size and speed; enjoys running between the tackles - but has the speed and agility to bounce outside. IMHO, this guy is the best RB in the draft.

Remember, we all thought Ron Dayne would slip way down to us in last year's draft(and we all hoped & prayed we would not take him). After the combine, expect to see Henry rise up the draft charts.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 09:09 AM
It is hard to say what the 9ers will draft. They could have the 1st 12 picks in the draft and they would still have needs to fill. They need OL,LB,WR,DB,DL and RB help is Garner doesn't re-sign...So they could go anywhere...

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 09:12 AM
Another thing that will move Henry's stock up is the success of Jamal Lewis...Henry outperformed Lewis a year ago at UT...NFL personnel guys won't forget that any time soon...

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

donkhater
01-03-2001, 09:13 AM
The good thing is that if two or three RBs start to look pretty good, at least we'll be in a position this season to take them. We always seem to be 2-3 drafts spots too low to get one of the really ood backs in the draft.

That said I think that KC has been pretty good a noticing the good talent. They had Jamal Lewis #1 last season. Both James and Williams the year before that and Fred Taylor was their top choice when he came out, even over Enis who went #5 I think.

So if they get their top guy, I think he'll be pretty good.

ChiTown
01-03-2001, 09:13 AM
jl80

Niners will probably focus on the defense as they were pathetic in that department this year. My guess is that they draft LB and probably Morgan, if not they will go DB.

MrBlond
01-03-2001, 09:17 AM
I would love to see Morgan in red and gold. I would not trade up for him. I disagree that OLB is our biggest need. Hasty is gone. 6.6 million cap number is unworkable. That and the Gun blowup have sealed his fate. W/O him CB is again our area of need, just like last year. I have not studied the CB group yet but at 12 a sure-fire shut down corner ready to step in is unlikely. But at 12 w/ 2 4th rounders you can make a move to get one. For everyone who said "I don't care about draft position, I just want to beat the donkeys." You would have enjoyed cheering for Morgan longer than you would have enjoyed beating Denver in a game that did not mean anything to KC.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 09:19 AM
Well, here is to me hoping that the reason they are drafting ahead of us is because they are dumber than us...

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

Brock
01-03-2001, 09:23 AM
There aren't many GM's dumber than Carl, and Bill Walsh certainly isn't one of them.

Gaz
01-03-2001, 09:23 AM
Mr. Blond-

I would not draft a CB if Hasty leaves. I would spend the Shields $$$ on a good veteran CB. If Hasty goes, we will need some leadership for the new kids. A draft CB will not provide that.

xoxo~
gaz
really hoping Hasty stays another year.<BR>

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 09:28 AM
Only vertern CB on the market is Ray Buchanan and he is rumored to be interested in going back to Indy to replace Tyronne Poole.

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

Brock
01-03-2001, 09:30 AM
If Hasty leaves, we're screwed.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 09:41 AM
If these two come out early they will greatly enhance our chances of getting Morgan:

Nate Clements.....Ohio State.....6'0", 190.....4.45/40*


Quentin Jammer.....Texas.....6'1", 196.....4.49/40*


They both could move up into the top 10 if they have good combines...

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

MrBlond
01-03-2001, 10:01 AM
Gaz,
You are 100% correct. I know Ray Buchanan. I think I heard Sehorn may be available. Last year Dallas signed a CB late who had a good year(his name escapes me) Ashley Ambrose was a FA last year. A shrewd talent evaluator can find a good bargain(we get Carlton Grey?). Again, I have not studied the CB position but if there is a Champ Bailey or Charles Woodson who could step in next year, I would trade up for that position. I would not trade up for Dan Morgan because IMO Edwards, Maz, Patton with the right scheme can good. W/O Hasty our CB's are questionable at best.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 10:06 AM
Blondie,

Patton is getting extremely long in the tooth, he will be 34 years old this summer...Neglecting to replace him soon will just continue our inablitly to stop the run...And even a Marcus Patton in his prime was not a great run stuffer.

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

Brock
01-03-2001, 10:10 AM
We did fine with players llike Anthony Davis at LB for years. Quick, name the last 5 starters we've had at MLB.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 10:12 AM
Probably some combination of Anthony Davis, Lonnie Marts, Percy Snow, Mazloski and Patton.

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

spe725
01-03-2001, 10:13 AM
MrBlond--

Phillipi Sparks?

Brock
01-03-2001, 10:14 AM
Tracy Simien was one.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 10:15 AM
Forgot about Simien...Seems like there was another mainstay in there that I am forgeting...

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

spe725
01-03-2001, 10:16 AM
Didn't Donnie Edwards start @ MLB before Patton got here?<BR>

Iowanian
01-03-2001, 10:18 AM
dino hackett

Brock
01-03-2001, 10:19 AM
spe, yes.

jl, before Simien, we had a couple of white guys whose names escape me now. Before that, some guy named Chris who wore #57 was there.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 10:20 AM
Chris Martin was #57...Hackett was the guy that I was thinking of

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

Brock
01-03-2001, 10:23 AM
Point being, we've had guys come in off the street who played well at LB. I think with Mazlowski and Edwards, we can fill in.

MrBlond
01-03-2001, 10:27 AM
725,

Thats it. Sparks. Again, I love Dan Morgan but losing Hasty leaves a huge hole. If there is no Bailey or Woodson in this draft, then stay at 12 and pick the best athlete available. But if there is a "just add water" shutdown corner...trade up.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 10:46 AM
That was a lot different...Those guys had the benefit of an ALL PRO tackle in Dan Sali shuting down the run and and a young and explosive pass rusher in the game in DT...We don't have that anymore and thus the MLB position will require much more than just plug and play...

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

donkhater
01-03-2001, 11:22 AM
I don't know if I would say if we are screwed without Hasty. Certainly it will be a drop off, but how good does any corner look playing that soft zone crap? Dennis and Bartee in particular, certainly have the physical tools to play bump and run. Watching them on tape, you can see their speed. I think the D stooge was just scared to see them get burnt because of their inexperience. IMO I'd like to see how they do first as a bump and run corner before I write them off. Now Warfield, that's a guy you can write off.

HC_Chief
01-03-2001, 12:00 PM
jl nailed it: Saleamua blew up the middle of OL in our Bill Cowher-led 3-4 scheme.

IMO, Morgan is our best 1st round pick - as long as we shore-up our DL in the 2nd round (Mario Fatafehi). If Morgan is unattainable, I'd take Travis Henry 1st, Fatafehi 2nd (starting to see a pattern develop here?)

MrBlond
01-03-2001, 12:04 PM
I would take Morgan in a second if he is there at #12. I don't think he will be, and would not trade up...the cost of additional picks would be too much. San Diego and New Orleans set the bar for moving up and it looks much to steep for a OLB.

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 12:09 PM
Look at TB and Baltimore...Two piss poor offenses but are able to succeed on Defense alone...And their defense are taken to another level because of stud anchors like Derrick Brooks and Ray Lewis...Morgan is that type of player...He is the closest thing to a guarantee as you will ever find in a draft...Most of the time you gamble on a guy who had average production but has great "potential" or you gamble on a guy who had great production but has questionable measurables at the next level...Morgan has all the measuarables and produces like few ever have...This guy makes everyone around him a lot better....I would give up my 1st born for this guy.

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 12:11 PM
Blondie,

Washington moved up from #12 to #7 for Champ Bailey and that worked out just fine.

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

G_Man
01-03-2001, 12:29 PM
jl80 - Do you remember what they gave up? They originally traded from 5th with NO and got all Ditka's picks. They had quite a bit to work with.

Brock
01-03-2001, 12:33 PM
I heard the same things about Brian Bosworth.

MrBlond
01-03-2001, 12:35 PM
jl80,

No doubt Champ Bailey is a great player. What did the move up cost in additional draft choices? KC needs all the draft choices we can get with holes at RB, CB, DT, OG, C, WR(depth), KR, and PR. At #12 we can still get a high impact player and keep those additional picks for O-line and depth. Not to take ANYTHING away from Morgan IF he would drop to 12(yeah right) I would take about 2 seconds to right his name on my blue card and RUN it to Tagliabue.

ct
01-03-2001, 12:59 PM
jl80,

In re. to #50, was it not the same Bucs who just got BOUNCED by Philly in the 1st round? And Baltimore put up a mind-staggering 21 points against a WEAK Denver D?

Tampa is wasting that great D with thier pathetic O. And you'll see the Ravens do the same thing this weekend when they have to face a legit D @TEN.

Put a quality QB in the Raven backfield with JLewis, and you have a SB TEAM. Until then, we as Chiefs fans should know better than to use this argument!!!

Bottom line? As soon as they face an equally tough D, these teams are toast!!!

ct
loves great D, but ya can't go far w/out O

[This message has been edited by coryt (edited 01-03-2001).]

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 01:07 PM
Coryt,

That is exactly my point...Those teams are horrible and yet they made it much farther than us solely because of great D's built around great linebackers...If we can build a decent D around Morgan, combined that with our Offense and we are talking SB...

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

Baby Lee
01-03-2001, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Those teams are horrible <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Pretty sweeping language to describe teams objectively much better than the Chiefs at present.

Assuming your talking about the Ravens and the Bucs, not the redskins. There you're right, they do suck.

[This message has been edited by JC-Johnny (edited 01-03-2001).]

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 01:21 PM
JC,

Look at everyone's power poll ratings...It is very easy to be horrible and be objectively much better than us. When the best you can do is split with the hands down worst team in the NFL I guess you aren't very far from the bottom of the barrel.

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

spe725
01-03-2001, 01:21 PM
jl, how can you say TB's D is built around LBs? Granted Brooks is a great player, but that D wouldn't be much without Sapp, Lynch, and the great corners (Abraham & Barber anyway).

NaptownChief
01-03-2001, 01:24 PM
SPE,

You can't have a great defense with just one player, obviously they have several...But even Sapp has said for the last two years that Brooks is the MVP of that defense.

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

spe725
01-03-2001, 01:36 PM
Although I can't blame you for taking Warren Sapp's word over mine, it just seems to me that Brooks is only so valuable because of the high-caliber players around him. He may be the most valuable once everybody else in place around him, I just don't think the system is/could be built around him. <BR>

58Forever
01-03-2001, 02:48 PM
Of the teams drafting ahead of us in the first round, can you see any of them needing a MLB?...SD needs a QB which they'll get in FA...but they already have Seau...Cleveland, Cincinnati, Arizona, Dallas, Seattle, New England...do they need MLBs...hopefully not and Carl and whoever is the HC will realize that we do...Patton aint gettin' any younger and he could be moved to OLB or you could plug Morgan into OLB for his rookie season and let him learn from Patton...sounds like a winner to me...come on Carl, hire me as director of player personnel... :D

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joe

"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst