The old Grbac returns true to form

[Snapper]

crackfan...watch your tone dip$h!T.

YOU will not be able to find 1(ONE) uno...post that has ME comparing Grbak to Favre....prove me wrong...I dare you....

I stand by my word that at this time, none of the young QBs you mentioned should be mentioned in the same breath with the likes of Montana et al.

leave the gloves on this time pup.


htis,
excellent call on crackfans blunder.

[dtforever]

Iowa,

I didnt say you specifically. If you have been paying attention, the Favre/Grbac reference is made all the time when people are talking to me. I think its as assinine as you do.

Chief fans,

One of the reasons Grbac has put up gaudy numbers this year is that the Chiefs are a passing team. Plus, in few games that they were getting crushed, teams went to a prevent defense. This is what I refer to as garbage time. If Grbac were as great as you guys think he is, then his team would be the one that jumps out to the big leads, not the other way around.

Again, keep chirping about his greatness. The team he leads is 5-8, and after 8 seasons, he is still looking for a playoff win.

You guys make arguments like Carl does: Ignore the bottom line and focus on individual accomplishments.

I cant wait to see how many of the "NFL's greatest fans" will be no-shows at the game this week.

[AustinChief]

Hey Pack...ok, no more quotes, even I'm not that brutal...

Hey Guys! We've found a corner that can MASTER Shaw's soft zone...

PACKFAN can backpedal like NOBODY I've ever seen!

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

[AustinChief]

OK, I just can't resist...

Ok, so now you're talking about the 2000 version of Aikman. That supports your argument, because Gannon is 10-3 and Grbac is 5-8. So yes, you're right. But WAIT...

Stop referring to Grbac's previous seven years. They don't count, just like Aikman's Super Bowl rings, or his MVP year. Only this year counts.

Uh oh, gotcha again Ken. Brett Favre, "the PLAYMAKER" is 6-7 and a lowly 79.7 rating.

PLEASE, PLEASE stop making this so easy. I'm starting to feel like the guy that beats up kids on Halloween for candy. I can't bear the guilt.

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

[dtforever]

As I have said many times: Grbac is having a good year statistically. Do I think he is a playoff caliber QB?? No. The reason, for starters, is that he has never won a playoff game. #2, his team is 5-8, #3 he makes awful decisions for a QB with any amount of tenure, #4 he is immobile. #5 his numbers are skewed this year because they pass 80% of the time. Do you dissagree with any of those statements?

Who would you rather have Favre or Grbac?<BR>

[47mack]

I'd take Favre in a heartbeat and I agree with each of those statements.

------------------
It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

[AustinChief]

Elvis has never won a playoff game.

[AustinChief]

Elvis has never won a playoff game.

[AustinChief]

Elvis has never won a playoff game.
Elvis has never won a playoff game.
Elvis has never won a playoff game.
Elvis has never won a playoff game.
Elvis has never won a playoff game.
Elvis has never won a playoff game.
Elvis has never won a playoff game.
Elvis has never won a playoff game.
Elvis has never won a playoff game.<BR>

[AustinChief]

Sorry... Bob Dole just felt like being Packfan for a minute.

[47mack]

Could someone please tell me how many playoff games Elvis has won? ;)

------------------
It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

[ColoradoChief]

packfan kind of sounds lonely and probably needs a hug. Of course if his dream comes true he will be able to get his Chiefs Season tickets yet.

[dnvrCHIEFSfn]

Elvis has never won a playoff game? This is news to me. I demand that he be shipped out of here immediately and Carl’s head be severed for allowing such a human disgrace to don the Red and Gold!

[dtforever]

Your responses to my latest post tell me all I need to know. Yhose responses just reinforce what I have been saying. Its to bad you guys arent man enough to admit I am right. Thats pathetic!

[Luzap]

Ken: We'd admit you were right, if you ever were.

Do you want me to make you look like a fool for making this statement: his numbers are skewed this year because they pass 80% of the time.

Let me know and I'll pile drive this one too.<BR>

[dnvrCHIEFSfn]

Right about what? That Elvis has never won a playoff game? Of course you’re right about that.

When you say that he will never win a playoff game because of his past failures, I have to disagree.

I think given the right coaches and the right supporting cast Elvis is capable of leading us to the post season, winning a playoff game or two and possibly winning a championship. The fact that you can’t see the real problems with the Chiefs is what’s pathetic.<BR>

[AustinChief]

Wait, Titus...Bob Dole wants to do it.

Let's see...304 rushing attempts plus 478 passing attempts equals 782 total attempts. 478 divided by 782 equals .80.

Yup. Packfan is brilliant.

[Luzap]

Dole: One thing you must do before discussing with Ken is elminating the variables from his statement.

So you have to get him to agree that this year means the season that began on Sept 3, 2000. Also, you'd have to get him to agree that his stats means that he was referring to Elvis. Next, that the words they pass means he was referring to the Chiefs and with Elvis in the game. Finally, as you already did was do identify the quantity of 80%.

If you dont do this, he'll come back and say that he was a talking about when Elvis was in SF playing Green Bay and how much of an idiot you were for referring to this year's Elvis.

[This message has been edited by KCTitus (edited 12-08-2000).]

[Snapper]

Crackman,

Thank you for acknowledging that I never have made those statements..

NOW, I HAVE been paying enough attention to your posts to know that you are either a sadomasochist OR or you are possibly broncofans mongoloid siameese twin.

Please stop making it so easy to pile on...seek treatment or something...Its not our fault the packers suck this year too.

[AustinChief]

The reason, for starters, is that he has never won a playoff game.

Didn't address my post. You slam Aikman for not being good statistically, despite his playoff record. But you slam Elvis for his playoff record despite his statistics.

#2, his team is 5-8,

Favre is 6-7, and he's worse statistically. But we're not talking about this year, we're talking about previous years. Unless we're talking about Troy Aikman. Then we're talking about this year.

#3 he makes awful decisions for a QB with any amount of tenure

We're only talking about previous seasons and tenure when talking about Grbac, though, so comparisons are moot.

#4 he is immobile

And mobility matters most when we're talking about Rich Gannon and not talking about Dan Marino, because this season and previous season are different issues, or the same issue.

#5 his numbers are skewed this year because they pass 80% of the time.

Ok, so now we're admitting that the play of a quarterback depends on team play and playcalling...or was it the QB that determines these things? I'm lost...

(cont'd)




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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

[AustinChief]

Do you dissagree with any of those statements?

Yes and no. He is 5-8 this year, he hasn't won a playoff game. He is rather immobile.

The problem Ken is that in a logical argument the end does not justify the means. The justifications you have used to support those statements are logically flawed. So while you may be right in pointing out the obvious, you're still an idiot for the way you arrived at those conclusions. I can tell you it's dog**** by looking at it. You must first taste it before you come to that conclusion.

Who would you rather have Favre or Grbac?

This year, or 2 years ago? You haven't been able to make up your mind yet, so I'll tell you this. Grbac is 5-8, Favre is 6-7. You said that's important. Grbac is not going to the playoffs. Neither is Favre. Again, YOU said that's important. Grbace has 9 more TDs, 4 less INTs, and in general, isn't playing as well. Grbac is having his best year, and has shown improvement the last 2. Favre has been steadily declining over the last 2, and has now shown he's getting injured more easily.

I'll take Grbac.

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

[dtforever]

Titus,

Not true. I wont call Dole an idoit because he wont say something idiodic.

Only you have. Thats why I call you an idiot.

Get it? 2+2=4!

[Luzap]

Parker: that's a great summary of the illogical reasoning of Ken's posts in this thread.

Ken: You havent been able to point to anything I have said. I have demonstrated through your words on every single post the absurity of your comments. Dude, you cant maintain a single consistent thought over even TWO consecutive posts, you cant read and understand what anyone posts and you are going around calling people 'dumb'.

It's amazing, but not suprising.<P>

[dtforever]

Htmaque,

What logigcally flawed about zero playoff wins, 5-8 record and tons of mental mistakes?

All 31 General Managers would take Favre over Grbac. At least you answered my question with what you believe. I would take Favre and here is why: Both players are the same age, so no difference here. Favre has proven big play ability, Grbac does not. Favre plays with pain, Grbac does not. Favre has a much better resume than Grbac does. Favre is a winner, Grbac is not.
Grbac's supporting cast is better, but team is worse than Favre's. Favre will do whatever it takes to win a game, Grbac, well, we saw what he did against New England.

IMO, no comparison between to two.

[dtforever]

Titus,

I used stats and wins and losses to support my argument. I give examples.

What do you use to support your argument? So far nothing but fluff which tells me you really dont have an argument.

You remind a lot of Russ Bliss which is not a compliment.

[Snapper]

crackfan,

Favre is also prone to throw ill advised passes which often have lead to ints....and makes wreckless decisions...

I do actually like Favre's play, but you are making that more difficult...guilt by association i guess.

[Luzap]

You are then calling your 'arguments' fluff because that's what I am using. I am using your failure of consistency as my argument.

You dont use stats unless they suit your 'fluff'. You dont use facts unless they suit your 'fluff'.

When stats and facts get in the way of your fluff, you dismiss them with inconsistent comments.

You know this to be true and so does everyone else, there's no reason to deny it.

[AustinChief]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>What logigcally flawed about zero playoff wins, 5-8 record and {subjective term removed} of mental mistakes?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing. Those are tangible facts. It's the methodology you use to support your other assumptions that's flawed. See: dog**** comment.

All 31 General Managers would take Favre over Grbac. At least you answered my question with what you believe.

It's nice to know that you know personally the thoughts and wills of all THIRTY TWO (forgot the Texans didn't you, football god?) GMs...by the way, why aren't you running a team right now, with knowledge like this...

Both players are the same age, so no difference here.

Favre is beat up physically and far further in the curve of his career than Grbac. When you watch them play, and even TV announcers have said this, Favre looks much older than he actually is. His playing style has taken it's toll and whether you want to admit or not, he's on the downside of his career.

Favre has proven big play ability, Grbac does not.

I won't even break out the stats to tell you you're wrong. You'll either 1) backpedal and change the rules or 2) tell me that you weren't talking about stats.

Favre plays with pain, Grbac does not.

Whatever. You don't know that and neither do any of us. However, I will remind you that Favre played through pain for several years with the help of something called Vicadin...so using painkillers makes him tough?

(cont'd)

------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

[AustinChief]

Favre has a much better resume than Grbac does. Favre is a winner, Grbac is not. Grbac's supporting cast is better, but team is worse than Favre's.

5-8 or 6-7...that one win makes all the difference doesn't it? Fact is, Green Bay has the same losing record. But then again, we're not talking about this year when talking about stats, or last year about records, or...what was that again?


Favre will do whatever it takes to win a game, Grbac, well, we saw what he did against New England.

So now you know what the players think and desire? I can't believe you're not a head coach. Elvis made a mental mistake, yes...you are questioning whether he wanted to win now, and you're NOT a mindreader, I know that...

IMO, no comparison between to two.

and that's exactly why it your OPINION. Because, in your opinion, there's only a comparison between the two when you're trying to make EG or CP look bad.

Ken, it's hard to look intelligent when you have such a blatant agenda... <P>

[AustinChief]

Gregg, it must suck to be you.

I love how I bust out the STATs and stat-meister start slamming YOU...

2+2=4 dammit!

------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

[Luzap]

Parker: LOL...watch out for fluffy, he'll turn on you in a minute.

I think once you slam fluffy about 5 or 6 times in a row, he gets a little testy and starts with his 2+2 routine. Sorry to say, it's not as funny as Abbott and Costello's 'who's on first' routine which is how I feel when trying to talk to fluffy.

[dtforever]

Htsmaque,

Texans arent able to trade for anyone yet so I stand by my OPINION that 31 general managers would take Favre over Grbac. Thats a no brainer. Thats like asking 31 General Managers who they would rather have: Donnie Edwards or Jr. Seau. Edwards, decent player. Seau though, great player. All 31 take Seau. Not to hard to comprehend. I appreciate your homerness and all, but logic prevails here. Grbac and Favre arent even in the same league. I already told you why and you really didnt come back with anything tangible to support your argument for Grbac. Either you are a huge homer or you just ignore hard facts and each players resume or both.

[dnvrCHIEFSfn]

It's baaaaaack!!

Elvis has NEVER won a playoff game.

[elvislivesinkc]

I read the game summaries for this weekend in the paper today. When discussing the Chiefs, the writer, some guy named Biggs, said "In the red zone, Grbac has the instincts of a chimp." I thought that was pretty funny.

He picked the Chiefs to win, though. I personally pick Carolina. I don't think the Chiefs could be Mizzou at their current level of play, and I keep thinking we're one loss away from the sacking of the entire coaching staff. Hopefully, this will come Monday.

Tick-tock, Gun.

------------------
Frazod

Have you had your Daley fix?

[chief_red_pants]

Well, let's see, you took McGlocton, who hasn't done anything for either team... then you gave us a worn our QB.. a check bouncing WR... and an open door to the playoffs!

So, why wouldn't you be stuck with someone like Elvis.. YOU DESERVE IT!!!!!


GO RAIDERS

[chief_red_pants]

Well, let's see, you took McGlocton, who hasn't done anything for either team... then you gave us a worn our QB.. a check bouncing WR... and an open door to the playoffs!

So, why wouldn't you be stuck with someone like Elvis.. YOU DESERVE IT!!!!!


GO RAIDERS

[flowergirl]

Gee, I wish we could take credit, but I think most of the credit goes to Miami, for giving you a bust at running back.

Go Jets!

[AustinChief]

It appears that even Carl Peterson himself has tired of reading Ken's repeated references to Elvis' impending roster bonus.

The key to understanding cap management, Peterson says, is recognizing what is real money and what is not. (stuff deleted...) These contracts often contain huge salaries in the later years of the deal, plus roster bonuses. For many of these salaries and bonuses, teams have no intention of paying...

<a href="http://www.kcchiefs.com/latest/mainnews.asp?storyID=1969&cat=13&showLatest=yes">More...</a>

[autoxwes]

Oh yea - My 3rd favorite slappin b!tch is back!!! OVERHEAD, you are fast becoming the third member of Broncobilly and Buttpack's three-way! Now before you go spillin anymore sheite from your greasy, a$$pick'n fingers, you better hope that your girls in black don't fall in the gutter where they crawled from these last three weeks.

I don't want to read any $hit how the Chiefs suck, blah, blah, blah - you need to worry about Gannon learning to read big digital numbers this week and finding a way to defeat the Jets.

Now, like I told you once before, if you want to smack, pull your mamma's tit outa your mouth and belly up! If not, I'm sure broncobilly would love to have you over for a latte!<P>

[dtforever]

Dole,

The key word in Carl's quote is "many". Doesnt say that the money is bogus is "all" cases. Grbac has put up big numbers, the league is desperate for QB help, and Carl tends to panic in these situations (Dan Williams, Carlton Gray). Grbac may not get 10 million, but he probably will get in the neighborhood of 8 million which is still to damn high.

If I were Peterson and wanted to resign Grbac, I would put together a film of all his career blunders and then begin the negotiations. His blunders are becomming legendary. You dont see these kinds of blunders for other QBs at any level. I was watching a rather boring NFL game monday when it turned into an entertaining comedy show with one minute left. First the QB keeper to get those crucial seven yards, then the short pass. Very entertaining!

[dtforever]

Wis Chief

"my third favorite slappin-***** "??

Are you a rumproaster? All of your "slappi-******* " are guys!

How about that. A homosexual football fan. very rare.

[Quarterback]

Kent, Being spiteful doesn't do any one any good, EXCEPT you... nobody comes on this board and enjoys bitching about the Chiefs more than you.

Ironic, How much Ken's disdain for the Chiefs resembles everyone's disdain for Kent. LOL!

You better pray for mediocrity, or you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. God, how pathetic.

[dtforever]

Stevie Ray,

I just tell it like it is.

I would love to see the Chiefs win (games that matter ie playoff games), but as a savvy football fan, I know that they cant with their current talent and coaching staff. So I vent. Like a lot of others on this board.

Funny, you have a problem with what I say - which is all football related -, but say nothing about Wis Chiefs last post.

THATS pathetic!

[Quarterback]

Just like you, Wis has his own opinion. Venting? More like assuming and predicting. Football is finicky, Ken. No one expected the Rams to go the bowl, just like everyone knew that Philly, NO, Giants and Ravens would be where they are. We can't beat the Raiders, but the Donx can. We can beat the Donx, but can't beat SD.

Face it, you don't want the Chiefs to do well, and everybody knows that. Just like someone else, same ol crap, day in, day out.

[dtforever]

Stevie Ray,

Not true. I could pick alot worse teams to come onto their board and vent. For example, I could probably have a field day with the Bengals or Bears. I absolutely want the Chiefs to do well. As I have said, I am sick and tired of the mediocrity and just see more of it after they commit another five years to Grbac/Peterson/Gunter. I justify my opinion with facts. Hardly anybody else does that here.

I was on here two years ago saying the same thing about Peterson and his new coach. Everybody thought I was an idiot to rip on King Carl and "Gun". It turns out that I have been dead on right about these guys. That should show that I know what I am talking about.

Grbac is not a super bowl QB and IMO, the Chiefs insure continued mediocrity by resigning him.

[Quarterback]

So tell me, if you are POSITIVE about the Chiefs committment to mediocrity, why bother ?

Why are you here?....why will you continue to be here? Are you a glutton for punishment? Or do you enjoy "venting" that much?

[dtforever]

I enjoy talking to most of you. I do get a little frustrated when people pretend to know what they are talking about while attacking me (Titus, Bliss)

Mediocrity will continue until Peterson is gone. I keep thinking that he will be dismissed, I mean, what owner would give a guy 12 years with little post season success and none in the last seven??

I keep thinking that Peterson is going to get fired. Thats when things will change for the better.

[Quarterback]

Ken if we played like this throughout his tenure, then I would FULLy understand, but you know as well as I do that we came VERY close a couple of times, and you also know that the window of oppurtunity to get to the SB is very small.


We've had our chances, we just blew it.

[AustinChief]

So who else could we get for the same Elvis dollars that would offer us a better chance of at least making the playoffs?

And just for giggles, Bob Dole fired off a letter to SI's Dr. Z asking for commentary on what the KC organization needs to do.

[i]"What's the general "expert" opinion on what's happened to Kansas City and what's needed to right the ship? Is a shakeup from Carl Peterson on down to Mike Stock (or beyond) in order? Does Grbac have what it takes to lead this team to even a single playoff victory? Do Mr. Lamar Hunt and Carl Peterson care about anything but net profit?

[autoxwes]

Packfan,

You truely are a lost and helpless individual. Where do you get off calling me a "homosexual"? You and your like (Broncobilly and possibly Overhead) are worthless POS and it is very EASY to slap you around. You are redundant and your arguments are based mainly on your hatred for Carl and Elvis and very little on facts. Other than "Elvis has never won a playoff game", you state very little fact, only opinion.

How can you state that you want the Chiefs to win when in fact if they did you would have nothing to say? Please answer this.

You are nothing but a troll on this board, and if you wouldn't set yourself up for "slapp'n" it would not happen. You claim to know football better than any of us. Stop talking nonsense and prove it!

You truely are lost, aren't you?

[AustinChief]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Htsmaque,
Texans arent able to trade for anyone yet so I stand by my OPINION that 31 general managers would take Favre over Grbac. Thats a no brainer. Thats like asking 31 General Managers who they would rather have: Donnie Edwards or Jr. Seau. Edwards, decent player. Seau though, great player. All 31 take Seau. Not to hard to comprehend. I appreciate your homerness and all, but logic prevails here. Grbac and Favre arent even in the same league. I already told you why and you really didnt come back with anything tangible to support your argument for Grbac. Either you are a huge homer or you just ignore hard facts and each players resume or both.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And there are how many FACTS in the above? ZERO. Your statements are based on ASSUMPTIONS, not fact. You DO NOT know personally every football GM, so you DO NOT know who they would take in a situation like that. I love how you resort to calling me a homer, when I stated that I'm not defending Grbac, I'm disputing your logic.

Nothing tangible? Did you bother looking at the W-L records? THE DEFINITIVE STAT for QBs, as per YOUR definition?

Once again, you backpedal, dodge, and fail to address the FACTS I put before you. This is like taking candy from a baby.



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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

[Duck Dog]

htismaqe,

You ARE taking candy from a baby...

Luz<BR>