And BTW....

The US automakers didn't fall on hard times solely because the Union wages were too high.....quality was just as much a factor.

mmaddog
*******

And as one more thought....

When Toyota went to address the Tacoma frame issue, they did it by buying back the trucks at 150% of book value....I ask this question honestly as I am not sure of the answer...

Has any American automobile manufacturer ever done this?

mmaddog
*******

so far my 2005 Malibu Maxx has been a great ride. I can pack up and go camping, it gets 35mpg on the hwy (95% of my driving is hwy), good stereo etc. I just replaced the brake pads (with the help of my brother) at 66k; andt tires at 57k....so the car should continue to run strong with scheduled maintenence. the next item is a transmission flush at 75k. no major issues mechanically. I probably put about 16k hwy miles on my car annually. So I figure I have abotu another 7-9 yrs, assuming no catastrophic failures.

having said that....

when my car finally goest belly -up, I will most likely buy a VW or Honda used. it may be a bit more in price than another car which has depreciated more, but I don't mind. I thinkt hat premium or inflated cost (if you want to call it that) is proportional to peace o f mind.

I've owned 4 consecutive US made vehicles (Dakota, Cougar, Wrangler, and Mailibu) and never had issue. But something tells me the next 5-10 yrs we will see an erosion of quality of US cars (some will argue the erosion has already taken place etc).

We bought my wife's VW 2 yrs ago an I've been VERY impressed with fit, finish, mechanics, mileage, quality etc. And the price was propotional.

I can only speak of past personal experience, but I have found this to be the exact opposite of the case. And this is coming from a guy when I was younger HATED american cars, and to this day I still HATE the way they look, but I have had much better luck with American cars in regards to dependability.

I've owned a 1997 Honda Prelude from 1999-2002. That thing broke down ALL the time. Everything busted, and when it did, it was not cheap. It had 55k miles.

I owned a 2002 Ford Ranger from 2002-2004. Never broke down once. Never. It was like new though, so it shouldn't break down.

I owned a 1996 Dodge Stratus from 2004-2006. The thing ran perfectly for 2 years before the water pump went bad. Then I sold it to some mexicans who just brought a jug of water with them, filled it up, and drove off. Not sure if they made it home or what.

I owned a 1993 Ford Taurus that was missing a portion of the front end from 2006 to 2008 and only had to replace the starter, which was dirt cheap. Thing ran fine. No problems at all. I just got sick of looking at it and chicks making fun of me for being the cheapest person alive and Dane making fun of me.

Now I have a BMW 5 series that is less than 6 years old with much less miles than my two previous beaters and this thing has been a complete hunk of shit. I've put over 3 grand worth of work into it since I bought it EIGHT MONTHS AGO. Central brake unit, radiator, timing belt, water pump, hoses, brakes, some intake, etc etc. I could go on and on.

Just for grins and giggles I didn't even go into the other American cars I owned...

I owned a Ford Tempo and Taurus at the same time....trust me they were the epitome of the moniker Found On the Road Dead. Even after those debacles I tempted fate by buying a Ford Conversion Van...it ran good for 2 years before I saw the light and traded it for the aforementioned Dodge Grand Caravan.

I've owned one American made vehicle that I wish I had never gotten rid of.... a 69 GMC pickup.

I've owned a VW Rabbit and Mazda B-2000 and had no problems with them.

mmaddog
*******

My parents had a Ford Tempo they put nearly 200K miles on without a single non-maintenance issue before trading it in for something else. :shrug:

I used to own a ‘90 Mitsubishi Eclipse.
Great gas mileage, and it would scoot very nicely down the road.
Fantastic little car, until I put off changing the timing belt a little longer than I should’ve and it let go ruining the top end. I rebuilt it, which wasn’t cheap even though I did all the labor, and got it running again but learned my lesson with Jap DOHC I-4’s and timing belts. I was just lucky that when it bent valves it didn’t break one off and punch a hole in the piston crown.

mY 80 d-150 is more tank than truck. the jeep.....not so much.

Huh. I've heard this quote plenty of times, but I guess I've never really thought about it. Unless "The rear differential locks up" is supposed to mean something different than what it normally means, how would that result in crashing and burning? It would probably only result in increased tire wear.

Yea, I know. There are lots of racers all over this country that pay big money to get their differential to lock up, but hey it’s a movie. :shrug:

Well, at least Toyota is addressing this problem. Sort of. Never mind the A-arms breaking or brake lines breaking or steering racks rusting off or trucks completely splitting in half, that's all fine, but we absolutely CANNOT have spare tires falling off.

Toyota to recall 110,000 Tundras over rust

Spare tire could fall onto road and create a hazard for other vehicles

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34137136/?gt1=43001

WASHINGTON - Toyota Motor Corp. will recall 110,000 Tundra trucks from the 2000-2003 model years to address excessive rust on the vehicle's frame. The government urged owners to remove the spare tire from the frame, concerned it could fall onto the road and create a hazard for other vehicles.

The recall announced Tuesday involves 2000-2003 model year Tundras registered in 20 "cold weather" states and the District of Columbia. The states are: Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened an investigation into excessive rust on Tundra frames in October after receiving 20 complaints of "severe frame corrosion." NHTSA said then it had received 15 reports alleging the spare tire, stowed under the truck bed, separated from the frame. Five other reports alleged broken brake lines because of the rust.

Toyota said Tuesday it was recalling the trucks in the cold weather states because road salts and chemical deicers are typically used to treat roads during the winter and could cause additional corrosion in the trucks.

Beginning in December, Toyota said it will notify owners and ask them to take their trucks to a Toyota dealer for an inspection of the frame's rear cross-member. Toyota said if the inspection finds that it can no longer safely support the spare tire, the cross-member assembly will be replaced.

If replacement parts aren't available, the dealer will find a temporary solution, such as removing the spare tire and securing it to the truck bed.

Toyota said if no significant rust is found, owners will have a corrosion-resistant compound applied to the frame. Toyota said the inspections and repairs will be done at no charge to owners.

NHTSA said owners of 2000-2003 Tundras registered outside the cold weather states will also be notified and have their vehicles inspected and repaired if the owners desire.

Toyota said owners could "minimize the risk of the spare tire separating from the rear cross-member by removing it. If you choose to do so, please be sure not to be under the rear cross-member or spare tire carrier during the lowering process." The automaker also urged owners to secure the spare tire in the truck bed or other areas of the vehicle.

For more information, owners may call the Toyota Customer Experience Center at 800-331-4331.

Glad I live in Florida w/my 2003 Tundra.

I'm sure the salt in the breeze isn't doing your vehicle and favors
Posted via Mobile Device

. I have owned 3 jeep cherokees a 91 turned in @ 215k for a 99 that was turned in after a couple years cause I couldn't afford the payments and a 00 that I own now....never had a problem with any of em.....just sad jeep did away with the model....the grand cherokees are a POS
Posted via Mobile Device

Do Tacoma frames have these problems? (sorry, didn't read the whole thread)