Toyota Tundras frames rusting, guess they need to be made from real steel.
 

This happened on the T-100 also.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/inve...50/detail.html



Team 5 Discovers More Rusted-Out Frames On Toyotas
Owners Said Trucks Can't Be Repaired Or Resold
POSTED: 10:47 am EDT April 26, 2009
UPDATED: 8:24 am EDT April 27, 2009


BOSTON -- Toyota is hearing from truck owners about frames so badly rusted they can't be repaired nor replaced.

It's a problem Team 5 Investigates first uncovered last year with Tacomas. And now it appears to involve larger model Tundras as well.

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"The frame is cracked," said Tim Gatzke, owner of a 2000 Toyota Tundra. "And down in the back here, the leaf springs on this side are so corroded that they're broken."



Tim Gatzke

He said the frame on his truck is being eaten away by rust. Driven only 89,000 miles, it no longer holds power steering fluid.

"In order to fix it, you need a power steering rack," Gatzke said. "But the corrosion is so bad, there is nothing for it to get welded back onto the frame."

Watch Report

Gatzke has pretty much stopped driving his truck.



Bob Malone

"It's aggressive corrosion that essentially makes the truck unsafe," he said. "I mean, the power steering rack at 70 mph. --- if that were to let go, that could be a really bad accident."

Bob Malone is another Tundra owner with the same complaint.

"You can see the frame rail is just orange with rust," he said.

Malone's 2000 Tundra -- driven just 72,000 -- essentially fell apart going through the car wash.

"I could literally just hear the metal chips flying off," he said, holding a rusted sheet in his hand. "This is the biggest piece I found out of the pile."



Tim Gatzke

Team 5 Investigates discovered more than two dozen complaints about 2000 and 2001 Tundras filed with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Drivers wrote, "Metal shearing off in large sheets"; "The rot caused the frame to break in half.".... (and) "Poked my finger right through the cross member."

Frustrated Tundra owners told NHTSA: "My truck is undriveable and unfixable." ... "It will not pass the next inspection." ... (and) "I cannot drive my car or even sell it as is."

"What needs to happen is, Toyota needs to recall these trucks," said Sean Kane, a national safety expert who believes the rust problem with older Tundras may be the same one plaguing more than 800,000 Tacoma trucks built between 1995 and 2000. As Team 5 Investigates first reported last year, those model years did not have adequate corrosion protection, causing the frames to disintegrate from rust.



Bob Malone

Toyota agreed --- and offered buyback deals for one-and-a-half times the vehicle's Blue Book value.

"Toyota really does need to step up here and extend that warranty beyond the vehicles that they've already covered to include any vehicles of theirs that has this kind of problem," Kane said.

In a written statement, Toyota told Team 5 Investigates that they've had only a small number of complaints and are investigating each one. They said, "using the information obtained from the Tacoma, we pro-actively investigate other vehicles of similar design and production elements." The company added, it "takes great pride in the durability and quality of our products."

Toyota wouldn't disclose how many rusted Tundras they've heard about or what they're doing for the owners.

"I'm pretty incensed," Malone said. "If you call them up, they just ignore you and hope you'll go away. I don't know what it's going to take."

no wonder american cars are kicking toyota's ass

Sounds like a made up story from Howie Long to me. :D

Yes because no American cars ever rust.

Yep, we have a good friend/customer who had a Tundra in mint condition. Took it in to Toyota, the frame was crazy rusted, they bought his truck from him, and gave him a heck of a deal on another one. I would of just taken the money, but they gave him a really good deal on a new truck, so he took it.

this thread makes me miss my old tacoma.

I have never, ever heard of an American made truck, have frame issues. If you have any information to the contrary, bring it on.
Toyota has had a history of it.

lol a rusty frame after 9 years..... you work for or drive a toyota or something?

Made by american workers? :hmmm:

I gotta tell ya, it handled great!

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They're all made in San Antonio Texas, or Evansville Indiana.

heh. no, i just like yankin on Ed's chain. :)

Anyone know if this is only around Boston, or all over?

That’s what killed Welding Buddy’s Toyota.

All over. I've seen a few sidelined with it here in Kansas.
It’s probably worse in the Rust Belt though.

All over, but im sure the snow and salt just makes it happen quicker.

Good Lord, I did a horrible repost, but in my defense I had not read the whole thread. Great minds think alike :thumb:.

Yeah, on on of my Mopar sites, one of the salvage guys was saying they can't pick them up with a forklift because they will break in two pieces.

Damn, that's crazy. What the hell did they use as a liner?

This can't be true. Jap stuff is waaay better than American. I read it here all the time.

I've seen this issue many times. We send CRASH reports to the manufacturer on this and sometimes have subrogation rights against Toyota in some cases.

Do you see this in cars, too, or just trucks?

I've only seen this is the Tundra specifically, which is why I commented on the thread.......havent really paid attention to what other vehicles have this issue. I just remember an auto clm i ran into lately involving a Tundra.

What liner are you referring to? I don't understand your question.


I doubt it, since almost all production cars are uni-body, not having a frame like a pick up.

Must have used american steel....if they used the japanese stuff they wouldn't have had this problem.

:spock: ROFL

Not sure he really is kidding. Is there such a thing as Japanese steel? I think they are very lacking in natural resources, and import most everything except sushi.

Heh, I'm glad I bought a Dodge.

Wouldn't it suck to stop in for an oil change, and have this happen? :eek:

I just thought it was an odd statement to make.
American steel is highly sought after for all forms of fabrication and construction.
Anecdotal story: Welding Buddy worked for a local manufacturer that was making big industrial radiators. They bought some Chinese steel because the American stuff was so expensive but the first tube they tried to bend exploded in the bender. So they shipped it all back and waited until they had American steel to fill their order.

The import snobs don't care. If it says Toyota or Honda on it They'll pay out the nose for one of those brands even with 315,000+ miles. Just cause it says Toyota or Honda. People are idjits.

LMAO

Wow..............

Wow. :eek: "Suck" is putting it mildly.

Damn, that would be a dissapointment. We had a Chinese company win a contract (plastic) that we were bidding on. They got the stuff all qualified, engineer blessing etc. Then when the two production containers showed up, it was totally different material. Customer lost several months of eval time.

Holy shit. :eek:

That's certainly never happened with any of my American cars. A couple of them may have fallen apart, but not in separate chunks.

Does this mean american cars have stopped being second rate or something?

What model years does this affect, and how common is it?

Welder Buddy's was an '85 and I've seen it happen to late '80's and early 90's trucks, the article is talking mostly 00 and later models so I'd say it's a problem that has existed for quite a while.

When was this? Nowadays, there are very specific lists as to where materials can come from, and typically China is a no-go. On one project I worked on, there was an American stainless shortage, and we had to go through all sorts of hoops to try to get stainless from Switzerland approved by the client.

Which car companies are going under again?? It aint Honda or Toyota.

This was when there was a steel shortage here because it was being bought up by China when they had all that new construction going on during their economic boom.
IIRC they got approval from the customer because of the long wait for American steel.

i have seen this on the older models, we racked a water patrol man's toyota and when it started coming off the ground the gap between the bed and cab just kept growing, so we stopped lifting it and looked the frame was just bending. needless to say we put that ****er down and told the guy it wasnt safe to drive. he was in for a missouri state inspection, the guy actually ASKED me if it would still passLMAOLMAOLMAO

If the frame rusts out and the car is useless at 100,000 miles it's right on par with what Detroit was producing in the 80s... so they still have some catching up to do...

When Welder Buddy's spring mount for the passenger side rear leave tore away from the frame, taking a decent sized piece of frame with it, he looked around and found that the drivers side spring mount wasn't far behind it. The frame was rusted paper thin in both locations. It's a miracle he hadn't torn the frame before, particularly the way he beat on it.
He kicked around the idea of back halving it and building a custom frame for a 4 link suspension but midway through the tear down for that project we found that the front half of the frame was in almost as bad shape as the rear half so he basically scrapped the whole thing.
It would've made a cool "truggy" but there just wasn't enough frame left to build onto.

Yeah, just because people don't want a car that's worth 25 percent less the minute they drive it off the lot, they're idjits. I wish I could seriously consider buying an american car, but let's face the facts. Hondas and Toyotas on average last longer, hold their value better, and perform better over the life of the vehicle than any american car. My 91 accord still has the original freon in it, for pete's sake. The saddest part of all of this is it doesn't have to be this way. There isn't anything magical about the way those companies operate. Detroits dollars per pound method of designing a car isn't and hasn't been working for quite some time.

his was the exact same way

Amen... you know there is a good chance that motor will still be turning 10 or 15 years from now. Is that worth a 10-15% premium? Looks like America thinks it is.

I always knew my Ford-150 was better :p

Don't even go there, Japan has been subsidizing their industries, and more specifically car companies for many years.
The fact that they have been so profitable, selling this stuff over here, doesn't speak well for our consumers.

In fact, Toyota recently asked for Government bailouts from Japan.

Seriously? A frame rusting in 9 yrs is horrible. My 2001 Grand Prix is rust-free underneath. Toyota is using some seriously low-quality steel.

I'm not a snob. I wanted the absolute best gas mileage I could get, and there's no comparison to my Corolla. In fact, the newer Corolla's can't even get the MPG I get. It's got 125K miles on it in just over 3 years and I still get about 38 on the highway at 70.

The frame on my 65 chevy Van isn't rusted..

So now your calling out every American consumer who buys Japanese just because they want a better automobile?? You make no sense.

Niether is the frame on my '60 CJ-5.
When hanging the new exhaust we found a crack in the frame right in the middle of the passenger side wheel arch but I'm pretty sure that's due to running a whole lot more motor than the designers intended. ;)

I've been in the car business for 15 years and have never heard this before. Just called a couple of my buddies in the the business and they've haven't either. Sounds like propaganda to me.

IMO that's largely a myth, over the past four years I've spent more on repairs on my wife's Camry than I did my Caravan, and it's five years newer. And don't even get me started on the Accord we used to have...

Perhaps somewhat, because i do believe American manufacturers have been forced to make better cars because of the dominance of foreign makers.

But the Foreign cars still have a far better resale value than American.

Yay. Seeing that I generally buy cars that are 5-6 years old, that only means I'll pay more for them. That, coupled with the fact that parts are friggin' outrageous for them, I don't really see what I'm gaining. Next time I'll buy the comparable Chevy for $2-3K less and take my chances.

A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?

You wouldn't believe.

Which car company do you work for?

A major one.

You are not your ****ing khakis!

I'll counter your myth with a truth of my own....

We bought my wife a new Dodge Grand Caravan in 1998 with only 12 miles on it. I purchased a new Toyota Camry with 5 miles on it in 1991.

We finally got rid of the POS Grand Caravan in 2002 after spending an ungodly amount of money trying to keep it roadworthy...with the main culprit being the electrical system. We traded it in for a 2000 Sienna XLE with 14k miles on it. The only problem we have had with it was the automatic door on the passenger side. We have put over 100K miles on it and spent less on repairs/upkeep in the almost 7 years we have owned it than we spent in the 4 years we owned that Grand Caravan.

But I will go you one better.....I owned that original 1991 till i traded it off in 2000 for a 2000 Camry...I spent nothing more than upkeep money (normal maintenance) in those 9 years and still couldn't come anywhere near to what I spent in what ungodly money keeping that POS Grand Caravan on the road.

Just thought I would offer my experience....

mmaddog
*******

And BTW....

The US automakers didn't fall on hard times solely because the Union wages were too high.....quality was just as much a factor.

mmaddog
*******

And as one more thought....

When Toyota went to address the Tacoma frame issue, they did it by buying back the trucks at 150% of book value....I ask this question honestly as I am not sure of the answer...

Has any American automobile manufacturer ever done this?

mmaddog
*******

so far my 2005 Malibu Maxx has been a great ride. I can pack up and go camping, it gets 35mpg on the hwy (95% of my driving is hwy), good stereo etc. I just replaced the brake pads (with the help of my brother) at 66k; andt tires at 57k....so the car should continue to run strong with scheduled maintenence. the next item is a transmission flush at 75k. no major issues mechanically. I probably put about 16k hwy miles on my car annually. So I figure I have abotu another 7-9 yrs, assuming no catastrophic failures.

having said that....

when my car finally goest belly -up, I will most likely buy a VW or Honda used. it may be a bit more in price than another car which has depreciated more, but I don't mind. I thinkt hat premium or inflated cost (if you want to call it that) is proportional to peace o f mind.

I've owned 4 consecutive US made vehicles (Dakota, Cougar, Wrangler, and Mailibu) and never had issue. But something tells me the next 5-10 yrs we will see an erosion of quality of US cars (some will argue the erosion has already taken place etc).

We bought my wife's VW 2 yrs ago an I've been VERY impressed with fit, finish, mechanics, mileage, quality etc. And the price was propotional.

I can only speak of past personal experience, but I have found this to be the exact opposite of the case. And this is coming from a guy when I was younger HATED american cars, and to this day I still HATE the way they look, but I have had much better luck with American cars in regards to dependability.

I've owned a 1997 Honda Prelude from 1999-2002. That thing broke down ALL the time. Everything busted, and when it did, it was not cheap. It had 55k miles.

I owned a 2002 Ford Ranger from 2002-2004. Never broke down once. Never. It was like new though, so it shouldn't break down.

I owned a 1996 Dodge Stratus from 2004-2006. The thing ran perfectly for 2 years before the water pump went bad. Then I sold it to some mexicans who just brought a jug of water with them, filled it up, and drove off. Not sure if they made it home or what.

I owned a 1993 Ford Taurus that was missing a portion of the front end from 2006 to 2008 and only had to replace the starter, which was dirt cheap. Thing ran fine. No problems at all. I just got sick of looking at it and chicks making fun of me for being the cheapest person alive and Dane making fun of me.

Now I have a BMW 5 series that is less than 6 years old with much less miles than my two previous beaters and this thing has been a complete hunk of shit. I've put over 3 grand worth of work into it since I bought it EIGHT MONTHS AGO. Central brake unit, radiator, timing belt, water pump, hoses, brakes, some intake, etc etc. I could go on and on.

Just for grins and giggles I didn't even go into the other American cars I owned...

I owned a Ford Tempo and Taurus at the same time....trust me they were the epitome of the moniker Found On the Road Dead. Even after those debacles I tempted fate by buying a Ford Conversion Van...it ran good for 2 years before I saw the light and traded it for the aforementioned Dodge Grand Caravan.

I've owned one American made vehicle that I wish I had never gotten rid of.... a 69 GMC pickup.

I've owned a VW Rabbit and Mazda B-2000 and had no problems with them.

mmaddog
*******

My parents had a Ford Tempo they put nearly 200K miles on without a single non-maintenance issue before trading it in for something else. :shrug:

I used to own a ‘90 Mitsubishi Eclipse.
Great gas mileage, and it would scoot very nicely down the road.
Fantastic little car, until I put off changing the timing belt a little longer than I should’ve and it let go ruining the top end. I rebuilt it, which wasn’t cheap even though I did all the labor, and got it running again but learned my lesson with Jap DOHC I-4’s and timing belts. I was just lucky that when it bent valves it didn’t break one off and punch a hole in the piston crown.

mY 80 d-150 is more tank than truck. the jeep.....not so much.

Huh. I've heard this quote plenty of times, but I guess I've never really thought about it. Unless "The rear differential locks up" is supposed to mean something different than what it normally means, how would that result in crashing and burning? It would probably only result in increased tire wear.

Yea, I know. There are lots of racers all over this country that pay big money to get their differential to lock up, but hey it’s a movie. :shrug:

Well, at least Toyota is addressing this problem. Sort of. Never mind the A-arms breaking or brake lines breaking or steering racks rusting off or trucks completely splitting in half, that's all fine, but we absolutely CANNOT have spare tires falling off.

Toyota to recall 110,000 Tundras over rust

Spare tire could fall onto road and create a hazard for other vehicles

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34137136/?gt1=43001

WASHINGTON - Toyota Motor Corp. will recall 110,000 Tundra trucks from the 2000-2003 model years to address excessive rust on the vehicle's frame. The government urged owners to remove the spare tire from the frame, concerned it could fall onto the road and create a hazard for other vehicles.

The recall announced Tuesday involves 2000-2003 model year Tundras registered in 20 "cold weather" states and the District of Columbia. The states are: Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened an investigation into excessive rust on Tundra frames in October after receiving 20 complaints of "severe frame corrosion." NHTSA said then it had received 15 reports alleging the spare tire, stowed under the truck bed, separated from the frame. Five other reports alleged broken brake lines because of the rust.

Toyota said Tuesday it was recalling the trucks in the cold weather states because road salts and chemical deicers are typically used to treat roads during the winter and could cause additional corrosion in the trucks.

Beginning in December, Toyota said it will notify owners and ask them to take their trucks to a Toyota dealer for an inspection of the frame's rear cross-member. Toyota said if the inspection finds that it can no longer safely support the spare tire, the cross-member assembly will be replaced.

If replacement parts aren't available, the dealer will find a temporary solution, such as removing the spare tire and securing it to the truck bed.

Toyota said if no significant rust is found, owners will have a corrosion-resistant compound applied to the frame. Toyota said the inspections and repairs will be done at no charge to owners.

NHTSA said owners of 2000-2003 Tundras registered outside the cold weather states will also be notified and have their vehicles inspected and repaired if the owners desire.

Toyota said owners could "minimize the risk of the spare tire separating from the rear cross-member by removing it. If you choose to do so, please be sure not to be under the rear cross-member or spare tire carrier during the lowering process." The automaker also urged owners to secure the spare tire in the truck bed or other areas of the vehicle.

For more information, owners may call the Toyota Customer Experience Center at 800-331-4331.

Glad I live in Florida w/my 2003 Tundra.

I'm sure the salt in the breeze isn't doing your vehicle and favors
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. I have owned 3 jeep cherokees a 91 turned in @ 215k for a 99 that was turned in after a couple years cause I couldn't afford the payments and a 00 that I own now....never had a problem with any of em.....just sad jeep did away with the model....the grand cherokees are a POS
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Do Tacoma frames have these problems? (sorry, didn't read the whole thread)

Yeah, Toyota actually bought back some of them because they were so bad. Obviously they are trying to avoid having to do the same with these.

The only reason not to get a Toyota truck is if you have a 5th wheel. I dare you to find a Tacoma pulling a 5th wheel.

That is an interesting take. Did you read the article that Bugeater posted?

The UAW approves this message. Oh wait.

FYP