Croyle deserves the Roethlisberger treatment
 

And no, I don't mean breaking his face on someone's bumper.

I still think that this team will do more to help itself in the long run if Brodie is our starter.

I think that most of us are willing to admit that our two weak links on offense today were Kyle Turley and Huard. Huard made ok decisions for the most part, but he still checked down too much, IMO, and he made some really poor throws. Turley got his bitch ass yanked, and for the future of the franchise, hopefully Huard's time is soon.

Croyle will make mistakes, but Huard isn't exactly giving us Montana-like precision either. We have two options in the passing game, which is perfect for a young QB. If he can't find D-Bowe or Tony, he can check down, and his arm and legs allow us to do things we can't with Huard.

If we can let Brodie be a game-managing QB this year (which is essentially what Huard is), then we might be able to be competitive for several years.

Great idea!

First, the Chief need to sign Tommy Maddox and as soon as he's injured, they can put in Croyle!

:rolleyes:

Already bought my Croyle jersey, gotta support my adopted Chief and his wife!!

Seriously I agree with you on this one Hamas. I think this new "Air Herm" offense would benefit from having a more mobile and faster throwing QB. With Huard play today he showed some prowess, but with Brodie you get something that Huard lacks, Speed. Both in his mobility and in his zipping passes.

What are we doing with Huard right now offense-wise that we can't do with Brodie?

What can we do with Brodie that we can't do with Damon?

I agree. Add in the fact that Huard is turning the ball over a lot...

How did Huard check down too much? The running backs caught a total of four passes. And LJ was so wide open on one he took it for 14 yards, clearly a wise decision by Huard.

I don't think he's a weak link at all. Roethlisberger succeeded early because the Steelers had a DOMINANT offensive line and running game...right now we don't have that. We need a guy that can throw it 30 times a game and execute a balanced gameplan. Croyle's gonna need to be eased in a little more.

Huard has five interceptions, but two of them are on the receivers. He's not turning it over "a lot." And he fumbled for the first time today.

Huard has REALLY impressed me in the 2nd half of these last 2 games.

A lot of people want Croyle, but hey lets give Damon some credit here. He's looked great in the 2nd half in the last 2 games that should tell us something?

he can play well under pressure and responds. I don't think anyone can say he hasn't been an intergral part of our last 2 wins because he has.

Other than that one pick in the 2nd half today by SD, which imo was a great defensive play, well read...He played well.

As for the RT, Turley. Yeah he needs to go. RT is more of a concern on this team right now than the QB is imo.

I don't know. And neither do you.

Croyle couldn't beat out Huard in mini-camp, OTA's and training camp. He's obviously not ready to lead the Chiefs.

No amount of bitching will get him on the field. Huard will either have to perform poorly or be injured. Rooting for either is very unsportsman-like and very uncool.

Croyle will be the starting QB in 2008. That much is certain. In the meantime, how about enjoying a few Chiefs victories?

It's not just completions, it's where he looks to throw. There was one swing pass on 3rd and 8 I believe...He hit his fifth step, looked at his primary, then immediately tried to swing it out (incomplete).

HE does entirely too much of that shit.

I'm not saying we need to run the same style of team as Pitt, you're taking this too literally. I think we need to develop Brodie as a game manager this year and then unleash him next year.

We still can't open it up with Huard due to his limitations. It's readily obvious. He had one long completion that was through the air, and that was a poor decision on the lob to Tony. The rest of the stuff was remarkable YAC work on short passes. Brodie can do that shit just as well, and learn while he's doing it.

I like Huard. Arguably he is the best backup QB in the league. But I'm also on the Croyle bandwagon (as our starter) now that I'm comfortable with the pass protection.

Hey man, I'm aglow about the victory, but I'm also greedy. I don't want these kinds of nice regular season wins to define us. I want playoff wins. We might...might..have that in Croyle. We probably don't in Huard.

Huard is basically playing for his job every week. Thats a fact.

If hes playing well the Chiefs are winning or will be in every game.
If hes not he will get yanked.

Huards played well when his backs against the wall like it was today.

Is he perfect? Far from it, but he plays within himself and keeps us in the game. At least he doesnt get the INT addiction of Trent Green.

Either way, Ive stopped complaining and worrying about it. Whatever happens, happens....

Huard throws well in the 15-20 yard range. That is what he did last year with success (and why he was 6th in the league in YPA) and what Green did his entire time here.

I don't see any "limitations" with Huard other than his lack of mobility. The coaching staff FINALLY took the reigns off this passing game the last six quarters and it's paying off.

We need to throw 30 times a game for this offense to be effective. I don't want Brodie doing that right now. If we try to make him "manage the game" and throw it 18-20 times, it's not gonna work, and the running game will suffer.

You deliberately cut out the part of my post that directly negates your last paragraph....

Huard's arm strength is still a big concern. Why risk Bowe getting decapitated on a sailing 20 yard in when Croyle has the arm strength to hit him in stride??

i didn't read all of this thread but the bottom line is we need to find out what we have in Croyle. Right now. There is absolutely no reason to delay using him. If he sucks, great, we put Huard back in, cut Croyle, and draft a QB next year. Staying with Huard only sets us back in our team's development.

No, it's not. His arm strength is fine. There are starting quarterbacks in this league with weaker arms.

I don't care if receivers get hit. This is the NFL. It happens.

I disagree, I believe King Carl made the decision on this. According to what we saw on hard knocks, Croyle was Herm's choice.

Dead argument, it isn't going to happen right now.

So you think that Croyle actually WON the job (with his pitiful performances in the pre-season) but Carl over-ruled Herm's decision?

Nonsense. Anyone who actually WATCHED every series that Croyle directed KNOWS he's not ready.

Is there promise? Yes. He has a rocket arm but he consistently made bad decisions. Hopefully, his decision making will improve. But at this point, he's unproven and a switch at this time would be unwarranted.

And if you can't prove yourself in the pre-season facing "vanilla" defenses, you're in trouble when the games really start.

the wheels on the bus go round and round...

Hyperbole much?

Huard was handed the job. He wasn't even given the opportunity to fail thanks to a fabricated "injury". Because, lest we forget, when he did play in the preseason, he turned the ball over After that, shockingly, he didn't play. He was "hurt".

In other words, he was protected so there wouldn't be a controversy.

The reality is that Croyle made what amounts to two bad decisions in the preseason. He also led the only scoring drive the 1's had, and looked amazing doing it.

That's called "inexperience", a problem which is not cured on the sidelines. You don't gain confidence on the sideline. You don't learn to recognize defenses at game speed on the sideline. You don't become a leader in the huddle on the sideline. You don't earn your team's respect on the sideline.

We haven't gotten anything from Huard that we wouldn't have gotten from Croyle. Poor throws into heavy coverage? Check. Receivers nearly decapitated because he regularly hangs them out to dry? Check. He hasn't done any of his vaunted "game management," throwing 5 picks, all of which were either poor throws or poor decisions.

Most of the notable plays in the second half against San Diego were balls that should never have been thrown in the first place, receivers making amazing plays to bail him out. Ditto for last week. Thank god for Dwayne Bowe, or we'd probably be sitting here at 0-4, in full meltdown mode. Because reality is that Huard is not an NFL starting calibre quarterback.

That said, you don't change QBs when you're winning. The real shame is that they started the season with him. Hopefully it's not going to set us back in '08, when we're scratching our collective heads wondering why Croyle doesn't look any better than he did in preseason '07.

This post is why you should be able to give pos rep to a post more than once :clap:

Huard's injury was not fabricated. He also played after he threw that interception. He played in two preseason games.

Croyle made a hell of a lot more than two bad decisions.

Only three of Huard's interceptions can directly be attributed to him. Two of them were on the receivers 100%. A third was meaningless, with the game already over. A fourth was a tipped ball, a freak play. The fifth was a GREAT PLAY by a defensive back. It's not like Huard is throwing blindly into coverage. NONE of his interceptions resemble the AWFUL throws Croyle made in preseason.

We HAVE to throw the ball 30 times a game right now. I don't trust Croyle. I trust Huard. He's not making dumb decisions.

Whatever.

Do you have HBO? Did you watch all the pre-season games?

I think not.

No offense Kyle, but analysis from a guy who say's he's "ready to shut the TV off and back to work" doesn't exactly inspire me to believe that you've really analyzed this like you would have in the past.

Croyle wasn't ready. Peter King said so. Donny Banks said so. Every writer for the Star said so. "Hard Knocks" proved so. And finally, the Chiefs said so.

Sorry if I'm not buying your story, or Hamas' story or Big Red Chief's story.

The Chiefs are 2-2 with one win over a 14 game winner from last year ON THE ROAD.

Sorry if I'm not all gloom and doom.

and I'm still gonna say that if Herm puts in Sippio then him and Damon will be in the probowl in febuary...j/k

I"m sorry, the only thing I saw on that page was a video of Hayden Panettiere with jiz on her face :whackit:

Yeah, that was before Croyle shat all over my hope.

:shake:

http://chiefs.scout.com/2/672724.html

This was after the Saints game.

Yep. And I stand by that.

Basically you said its alright for Huard to be the starter so Brodie doesnt get hurt. You said nothing about Croyle's play in it.

This is true. But I've voiced my opinion on that on this forum.

I don't believe we'd be 2-2 with Brodie.

And, if you ask me, he shouldn't have lost it with his pre-season play either. Huard wasn't any better. I still would rather have Croyle in there than Huard but this win does make me feel better about Huard starting. Hopefully I'll be eating crow in December. I won't mind too much.

LMAO

Let's all bookmark this one and see how he feels when Bowe is sidelined with broken ribs after stretching out over the middle for one of Hutard's floaters.

It might interest you to know Huard was also smacked on the play where Bowe got smacked.

This is the NFL.

But go ahead and give all of the credit to the receivers and none to Huard. It's been the company line around here since Huard started having any sort of success. It's never Damon. It's always someone else.

I just don't agree. The passes are weak and in most cases off target. D Bowe and Tony are still making plays, but it's in spite of Huard imo.

The one good thing I can say about Huard is he didn't give up a ton of Ints, and the ones he did weren't in the red zone. I suppose that's why we have him in the game. Had we had Croyle in there, he might have thrown it away one or two more times.

The book on Huard is that he is an average NFL talent with some smarts and a willingness to stand in the pocket (basically bacause he can't do anything else)

When a smart average NFL QB gets time to pass (like he did yesterday) he'll make throws.

Huard playing doesn't sit well with me for these reasons:

1. He didn't 'beat' Croyle in the preseason. He was every bit as bad as Croyle in the games he played, maybe worse. His starting the season was more a comfort for Peterson than the fact that Huard won the job.

2. He is playing scared. No, not because his O-line is mediocre, but becuase he's afraid he's going to get yanked. Herm has force fed his QB's into submission about not making mistakes that they're scared to lose and afraid to win. Granted, Brodie takes chance that he maybe shouldn't, but He's going to throw the pass that he needs to.

3. He's not even that good at checking down his passes. Seriously. Has he completed a swing pass or screen pass this year? The one in Houston that Wilson was pummled on iced the game for them. you can see LJ is just flabbergasted by what is coming his way.

But the biggest is:


4. So what if Huard plays OK, it gets this team NOWHERE!!!!!!!! This team at its peak potential still doesn't have the talent to compete with the NE and IND of the league. Maybe by the time they do, it would be nice if your QB was a 2nd or 3rd year QB entering into his prime instead of a washed up 37-year old.

Sure, it's great KC won and I was excited as hell, but as much as I would like to see KC win this year, my head tells me it'll just end in dissappointment.

Huard is doing fine IMO. Putting Croyle in would be a step backwards now that the season has new life.

New life as in how? A 10-6 team that gets bounced in the first round again instead of a 6-10 or 7-9 team that has information in which to build the team?

Insert veteran free agents (especially at QB), scrape through the season, win most of your home games, barely make or miss the playoffs, get embarrassed in the playoffs, rinse, repeat.

Ahh, the life of a Chiefs fan.

A new life in that the division is unstable and instead of last place we're tied for first. There's still a lot of football to play but a team can rally around this kind of win. I'm far from saying this team is perfect, but Defense wins championships, and we've got 3 great weapons on offense in LJ, TG, and Bowe.
Sorry for being so excited, my lobotomy is scheduled for Friday. :)

Finally found the incentive to click on a "scout" link.

Rep.

I was jumping around and yelling throughout most of the second half yesterday. I LOVE seeing the Chiefs play well. That's the passonate fan in me.

The practical side is like the first human that realizes he is mortal. Sure it's great to be alive and you can certainly enjoy yourself while it lasts, but you know it's going to end and end badly.

Nailed it. Nicely put. :clap:

I, being NOT PSYCHIC, cannot KNOW that it is going to end badly. Sure, it's a GREAT hypothesis, and I'm sure you make a lot of money on your hotline.. but you can't tell me that we're out of it until we are, for a FACT, out of it.

Agree to disagree. Stay classy.

OK.

I doubt you'll find anyone on the board who doesn't hope that I am totally wrong. I sincerely hope I am. I'll eat crow and endure negative reps until the cows come home if KC even goes to the AFC Championship game.

As much as I root for this team and want them to succeed every time they take the field, my eyes and brain tell me that they are not ready to make that step with the talent and level of coaching they currently have. It's sucks to say it and sucks worse to feel that way. But logic tells me that trying something different might provide different results.

I'm sure Huard is starting in some part because the vets on this team and some fans don't want it to be a 'wasted season'. Yet I feel NOT starting Croyle now, seeing what you have, is a wasted season. I'm sorry, I just feel that way. And unless this team surprises and ends up in the AFC Championship game with Huard playing (which I would honestly, dearly love) that's what this year is so far to me.

Well I've seen a lot of things happen that my eyes and brain told me could not happen. What you have is a GREAT HYPOTHESIS, and I definately wouldn't bet against you on your opinion, but I kind of like the idea that anything can happen in the NFL. I never ruled us out even when Dave Kreig or Steve Bono was QB, and I won't rule us out with Huard until statistical evidence factually proves our season to be over.

his arm strength is highschool horrible

Croyle can develop by getting a haircut and learning how to stand on the sidelines like a football player.

He always has his hands tucked under his shoulder pads as if he still has not gotten over getting the wind knocked out of him against Vanderbilt a couple of years ago.

I would like to see the kid become an elite NFL QB, but he needs to start looking and acting like a man so that the next time his coach tries to hand him a job he has not earned he won't blow it.

Whether Croyle starts RIGHT NOW or not, he will be the starter in 08

Where he will have a full season to prove his worth.

We WILL NOT be selecting a QB in the first round of 08. So whats the point of wanting to sacrifice this season, O mighty realists?

If the season goes in the tank, or Huard blows it, we will see him sooner.

The same people who gave up on the game before we even played it yesterday, are the ones who want to give up on the season a quarter of the way through it.

This is completely accurate.

Croyle needs to be in there no matter how you slice it. This team is going no where this year. Our OL will not allow it and our O playcalling continues to be painful to watch. Despite the win yesterday we are not a playoff caliber team at least offensively. I read CP's comments in the paper and he patted himself on the back about yesterday's win. He such an ass.

We are going to blow an opportunity to get Top shelf quality players in the draft next year by winning 9 games this season. Picking in the low 20's will be a BIG disappointment.

I can see CP and Herm patting themselves on the back at the end of the year for a job well done after winning 8,9, even 10 games. Then getting their butts kicked in the postseason if they miraculously get in the playoffs.

I would settle for 3 years of true rebuilding if we completely get rid of the Front Office and Coaching staff.

My fear is that we will just do good enough to keep these Bozo's in
place!

Too Bad For Chiefs Fans!

Exactly my point.

I would hate to pick in the low twenties and end up with another D Bowe or LJ.

We should get a high pick. I heard I Ryan Sims brother is available
:rolleyes:

Since we have no chance at anything this year, why dont you wait till next year to watch the games. :shake:

Huard atleast has been adjusting, hopefully he can gain confidence with the past 2 games...i say only throw in croyle due to injury or poor play on huards side. He seems to not have a problem throwing downfield anymore.

I cant believe you morons actually think a couple of bad seasons will get CP fired.

He could EASILY throw Herm under the bus and re-up if he wanted to.

This is what weve got. Getover it. Stop being such crybabies

We last went to the SB 38 years ago, if you reviewed all our drafts since then you will find we picked up most of our franchise players in the Top 5 Top 10. You can count on one hand how many times we picked this low in the past 38 years. I like to change this trend around and have more opportunities to load our team with quality players.

How do you think we are going to improve our OL in short order? Picking in the 20's isn't going to cut it.

So you HOPE we lose this year.

Thank you.

I respect your opinion, but the draft is a crap shoot, not an automatic road to glory.

So the reason why Indianapolis has over 40+ players on their team that they drafted is because they were luckier than everyone else??

Give me a fucking break.

Do you really think that Herm is just luckier than Vermeil vis a vis talent evaluation??


Look, one of the reasons why a lot of us want to see what Croyle can do and give him time to develop is because we have two all-world weapons on this offense who are running on borrowed time.

Tony won't be great forever, and neither will LJ. If we wait until '08 and Croyle busts, then we're in for a really long term of mediocrity, as players like that don't come along very often, and we'll be forced to go with yet another QB.

If Croyle tanks this year and we are able to get a guy like Andre Woodson or Brian Brohm, we might be able to be competitive while LJ still has some tread left on his tires. If Croyle shows flashes but we finish poorly, we can use that pick on Jake Long or Sam Baker, and have the left side of our line solidified for a decade.

Why do the Huard supporters believe that because some of us want to see what Croyle's got means we want the Chiefs to lose.

IMNSHO, I think Croyle gives us a better chance to win consistantly than Damon "Noodle-Arm" Hutard does.

I have no confidence in Hutard's ability to take the game on his back and win, should we need it. He's constantly being bailed out by Gonzo and Bowe on bad throws into coverage, he still skips the ball to the receiver on those swing passes and he's more likely to panic and curl up against a tough pass rush than he is to step up and "maybe" get hit as he releases the ball.

He's a journeyman back-up and that's all he's going to be. Croyle may or may not be the QBotF for this team, but we'll never know as long as he's on the sidelines.

He may not do better than Hutard, but I doubt he can do any worse. If he's as good as Hutard, then we'll still get our 8-9-10 wins <b>AND</b> know what kind of young quarterback that we have. If he's worse, then we know we need to look at QB in the worst way in the draft.

But, either way, we'd know what we have in Croyle.

We know what we have in Hutard. A journeyman back-up.

Dude listen up. If Croyle goes in this year, and sux, he will still be given a full season to prove himself, and rightfully so.

I think Herm can find talent ANYWHERE in the draft, and so far hes proven that correct.

WE WILL NOT DRAFT BRIAN BROHM, OR ANDRE WOODSON, OR ANY OTHER QB IN THE FIRST ROUND NEXT YEAR........END OF STORY.

Listen to this, and listen close. The Colts have lost less than 7 games (6) once in the last 9 fukin yrs, which basically throws your argument in the toilet.

Colts have a HOF QB and a GM that knows what he's doing.

No Hamas wants to find out if we have our QB that can lead us to the promise land or not get us one who can. Which is what Indy has had for the past 9 years and in turn why they are drafting at the bottom.

Because Peyton Manning was a third round pick :rolleyes:

We will not be picking 1st overall.

There is only one Manning. Now What.

You have to admire a guy who can bang a football off an opposing player's helmet then have the confidence to throw into triple coverage, Mr. 'Hamas' Jenkins.

Downfield has mojo.

FAX

You guys have me confused.

I am NOT a Huard supporter. I have wanted Croyle from day 1.

I think he even gives us the best chance to win now, and that he is clearly the better QB.

1963 said we have to draft high the build our team, which means we have to lose, and that is BS.

No we don't intentionally lose we just find out what type of players we have sooner rather than later. This is not a SB team, we have a lot of missing pieces that we can't acquire in a year.

We need a new mindset in the Front Office with a GM that knows how to build for the long run.

The last 20 years has proven that CP is not the answer.

I agree with this, but it wouldnt bother me one bit if we won a playoff game this year.

This is how CP fools you or teases you with the possibility that we'll make the playoffs and by getting in then we have a chance to go the distance. Year after year we get to see a picture of a juicy steak and the opportunity to bite into it only to be disappointed when we find out it was a mirage.

Getting into the playoffs and even winning a playoff game is not going to satisfy this Chiefs Fan. We can do better and it starts with the complete removal of the entire Front Office sooner rather than later.

Based on what? His 2006 preseason play? His 2006 regular season play? His 2007 preseason play? What? WHAT?

Unless you have some sort of crystal ball, you don't know ANYTHING about Croyle. YOU'RE GUESSING. And HOPING. Period.

See above.

Thank you captain obvious.

We all know this, but what does it change......not a damn thing....

I know, we should write another 5000 posts that say we need a new front office, that will get results.

It wont satifsy me either, but I still want to get there and see what happens.

If you dont think we are good enough to win it all, how exactly are we being fooled?

You are exactly right. It is an OPINION my friend.

Just like the one you have of Huard. Simma down.

You've just lost any credibility with me with this comment.

I didn't state an opinion of Huard, did I?

I only rebuffed your egregious claims of Croyle's invincibility.

:bravo: :thumb:

You prove my point exactly. This why CP is still GM for the CHiefs.

Im not trying to bash Huard either. I think hes doing well.