Devil's advocate-Chiefs shouldn't have signed Cassel & should've waited & signed Vick
 

The Chiefs offense in the last 7 games of the year improved greatly and was performing in the top half the league using Gailey's modified spread offense. This offense used a running QB who threw primarily short, quick passes and the QB lead the league in rushing for his position.

This offense would have been perfect for Michael Vick, who led the league in QB rushing several times. Vick has never been a great passer or decision maker, but Gailey's offense which relied on easy decision making, mostly short passes and the QB running the ball would have fit Vick perfectly. And this offense is more suited to the Chiefs current offensive line which has and will struggle. The Chiefs could have allowed Thigpen and Vick to compete but obviously Thigpen would have the job for at least the first 6 games.

This would have also allowed the Chiefs to use their draft differently to fill many gaping holes and obvious lack of depth with the offensive line, linebacker, a pass rusher, TE and wide receiver.

The Chiefs could have stuck with the 4-3 and tried to overhaul their defense with Curry, Everette Brown or Ray Malaugua (Brown & Malaugua were both available in the 2nd round), or Michael Johnson (available in the 3rd round).

Or they could have mixed that in with trying to revamp their offensive line with the many players that were available or with a TE like Jared Cook who was available in the 3rd round who would have complimented our big TE, Cottam.

Instead we are stuck with watching a young QB play behind a weak offensive line and throw to receivers that drop many passes or can't stay healthy with out the best pass catching option from last year. And the only significant improvement to one of the worst defenses in the league was to the defensive line and a couple of old linebackers.

Shut up, you!

Then why sign him ?

nice attempt, though.

Umm.....what?

Dumbest.

Thread.

Evar!!

What the......


Bad Noob!

Man, the child-safety locks on playpins aren't shit these days.

Well ... there's a thought.

Vick could have made yardage with the Sloption, that's true. But, how were we to know that Vick would be available? I mean, before the draft and/or at the time we made the deal for Cassel?

FAX

Vick would have excelled in Gailey's offense. He's probably a better passer and runner than Thigpen. And Thiggy did pretty good in the offense.

This thread sucks without pictures

http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/en...Law%20blog.jpg

Are you forgetting that the spread offense we ran... which Thigpen did well in... still only netted us 2 wins?

If we waited on Vick, we would have essentially wasted the season. The first (very important) season for the new GM, Coach, and coaching staff.....

WTF does Vick have to do with the 3-4 or 4-3 and any theoretical decision not to overhaul the defense? All Cassel cost the Chiefs was a second round pick, for crying out loud.

you couldn't have known for sure, but I thought he was going to be around this year. And he will be cheap.

just look at last year from the Jets game to the end of the season. There are 10 games there. And if the Chiefs defense and QB play were a little better, they could probably have one at least five or six of those games.

If Vick could play a little better than Thigpen and the defense could have improved, we would be much better than we are right now.

A few wins better? What good would that have done? Most of us want more than a few wins better.

Vick is not the answer. Not no way, not no how....

Do you know what players were available with that 2nd pick???

When do you go back to school?

Our QB has nothing to do with what our defense runs.

The offense would have been good enough to get the team to the playoffs with an improved defense. If Vick could have played better than Thigpen, which I expect that he could have.

If the Chiefs would have drafted Curry, Maluagua, and Michael Johnson and stuck with the 4-3, there defense would have drastically improved.

Check the stats on the 07 Chiefs defense. If you put the 07 Chiefs defense with the offense that ended 2008, that team would be a good beginning, a possible playoff team to build around.

you should grow an aids tree in your pants, water it with antifreeze.....

Vick would have been marginally better than Thigpen at best. Not enough to make the difference between 2-14 and playoff contender.

All this hindsight "if we would have" stuff is silly.... you could do so with any team in the league and turn them into superbowl contenders...

****. Just ****.

simply the worst idea in the history of internet BBs. you should go look yourself in the mirror, shake your head, and punch the mirror's image of yourself. take the bloody hand and shove it in salt. only then would you reach half the pain you've put us through.

WT? How were the Chiefs to know that Vick would be available? The draft has already passed. They were supposed to look into the crystal ball and know that a prisoner was to be set free and get reinstated and start playing 6 games into the season?????????????? What the heck do you people drink before you start typing? you are be critical of the Chiefs lack of foresight when using your hindsight. You get an F.

That's what BB's are for. Looking at the what ifs. I'm not saying they could have planned it this way. But it could have worked.

If Michael Vick ever becomes a Kansas City Chief I will stop being a Kansas City Chiefs fan.

I won't. I was a chiefs fan when steve goddamned bono was our qb, I'll be a chiefs fan after matt cassel is gone. who the qb is has nothing to do with my fandom. just get me a goddamned super bowl victory!

I wonder if Atlanta would take Glen Dorsey for Michael Vick. We could get rid of our bust, and they could get rid of their back up qb. It sounds like a win-win.

I should neg rep you.

ROFL

Vick was released by Atlanta earlier this off-season.

He's an unrestricted free-agent.

Or is this sarcasm?

I see what you did there!

I don't give a **** about Vick's past as it relates to this thread/post. What I DO give a **** about, is that this premise is thee dumbest ****ing thing I have yet to ever read that is football-related on Chiefs Planet.
This premise deserves nothing less than the hiring of a sky-writer to write the following message in the aforementioned sky:

KILL YOURSELF/HAMAS.

Yes, Hamas has disappeared for the time being. But when someone posts something as utterly ****ing football reeruned as this thread/premise, Hamas senses it and calls me on the Emergency Kill Yourself/Hamas Bat-Phone.

Please, PLEASE refrain from Full Football reerun in the future; it hurts everyone.

LOL It's my spinoff from DP's thread yesterday. I love Dorsey, always have.

It doesn't matter. Vick or Cassel.... neither one is the key to what defense the Chiefs were going to run.

Or are you actually trying to claim that the Chiefs wouldn't have changed from the 4-3 to the 3-4 without Cassel?

I'm pretty sure that's a requirement for the job. Why would we even consider it without knowing Vicks availability at the time?

Without question, the stupidest thing I have ever read.

Well, maybe that is a stretch. But it's the dumbest thing I have read in a long time.

Dude, you are dumb. Vick sucks as a passer. In his last 2 years in the league, he was something like 53% completions.

And above all else, I am glad we didn't pick up a scumbag like him.

And Duck Dong; STFU.

Still bitter? Chicks always hold a grudge.

NO!

Of course, this is a horrible long-term solution. It also appears to be a horrible short-term solution. I'm not convinced that Vick would be better than Thiggy at QB right now.

You can't take a QB like Vick and make him into a west coast QB. That's not his strength. It won't work.

You let him throw short passes and run. He's better at that than anyone. Vick is probably the best runner of any QB in history.

Really, no one knows how it would have worked out. No one in the NFL has run an offense like Gailey's last year in the NFL. Vick definitely has not had and probably never will have the opportunity to run an offense like that.

It sure would have been fun to watch.

Wee.
Todd.
Id.

No, I am not. They were going to change when they hired Pioli.

But I think that is what BBs are for. It's interesting to think about what might have been knowing what we know now with how the draft played out.

There were a lot of players that were around in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds that I did not expect to be there.

I didn't expect Rey Malaugua or Everette Brown to be there in the 2nd.

Alot of people on this board wanted Brown with the #3 pick. I didn't, but he seemed like a bargain in the 2nd.

Then your whole opening post is reeruned.

Yes, one of the dumbest suggestions I've read on ChiefsPlanet and that's saying alot since I've been here since its inception.

could you imagine vick and thigpen in at the same time LMAO

The suckage would be off the charts.

wow. reading comprehension must be difficult. I said they shouldn't have done this and should have done this.

I know that in reality they will do none of it. I am looking at a hypothetical situation. lighten up a little.

Here's the deal. Almost everyone thinks Vick could be a great wild cat QB. I think he could have been great in the spread that Gailey ran last year. He would have been ideal for it. They patterned the offense around Thigpen's strengths and made it work with this weaknesses. Those strengths and weaknesses line up pretty close with Vicks. But Vick probably has more potential.

I also think that chiefs fan quickly forget how good the defense was in 2007. The offense SUCKED and the chiefs defense was still almost in the top 10. Look it up. Look at the offensive stats and defensive stats.

The chiefs should have tried to get their defense back to the 2007 form and then build on that. Instead they just blew the whole thing up and now the team is years away.

I think if the chiefs would have drafted a few defensive players that fit the 4-3 and a few o-lineman and picked up Vick, and kept the offense and defense the same, that the Chiefs would be much closer to being in the playoffs than they are now.

Dude, that's exactly what is the WCO. Short passes mixed in with a few medium and long passes. But a lot of short passes. Spreading the ball around to all skill positions, especially TEs and RBs/FBs (Kimble Anders ring a bell?). And as I recall, Steve Young, Steve Bono, and even Joe Montana were pretty good scramblers. All in the WCO.

If Cassel had never played a down of NFL football I would still take him over Vick.

any thread that has dog killer a Chief- FAILS!!!

They were ranked #13 in total yards and #14 in scoring defense. You say almost top 10. I say almost middle of the pack.

No. No it is not.


Okee day then.


Who cares? That is the question. Can the Chiefs quit playing college ball now, and go back to being a Professional Team again?

The choices are,

a) I most certainly forgot and with good reason. Or,

b) Don't you mean 1997? Cause that's the last year this team had a defense.

First, No.

Second, "blowing it up" got rid of Carl and Herm. HOORAY for Blowing It Up!


The Great Haoli does not "do" 4-3. Pioli knows how to draft for 3-4 Defense( God we hope ), and Haley prefers the scheme as well; you're promulgating a hypothetical fantasy that had no chance in Hell of ever happening. And as for Vick; we've already got one of those and I can't stand the little son of a bitch. Why the **** would I want a 2nd?
:)

I can. The universe is incapable of containing that amount of confusion in one place at one time.

Somewhere between fake handoff number three - reverse pump fake pass to the right and fake handoff number four, an immense, catastrophic black hole would suddenly emerge out of nowhere sucking all existing matter, energy, space, and time into the 11th dimension leaving behind a singularity of infinite and utter nothingness.

That's what would happen.

FAX

Putting aside the dumbass idea. You realize Vick has been sitting on his ass in prison for the last 2 years? Somehow I don't think he'll be quite the same player he once was. And he wasn't that great to begin with.

and shortly thereafter the chiefs would have a shot at winning the superbowl

Okay guys. I just figured out our plan to win the Superbowl THIS year

Sign Mike Vick, start him
Sign Plaxico Burress, start him
Sign Pacman Jones, start him
Sign Jeff George to compete with Vick and Cassel
Sign Matt Jones for the slot

NOBODY could stop us! NOBODY

DO IT, YAY

I can not imagine the number of dead brain cells that this idea requires.

Every time I think I've seen the stupidest possible idea imaginable, someone comes along and tops it.

Congratulations bubb, you are the new dumbest ****er on the planet.

JFC.

Ummm. I know jack about football, and this seem like a stupid idea to even me.

YES!!!!!!

Someone took my crown :D

Sadly, reading comprehension is very easy for me. I wish that I hadn't understood your post. Had I not understood it, I'd not have felt subjected to such utter stupidity.

But your still gonna suck, so whats all the flap?:D

No, that would be YOU.

For as long as Alzheimers Davis lives.



Which will be forever.

How long have you been an Al Davis fan?

Threads like this make baby Jesus cry.

Antifreeze is a hell of a slushy flavor.

You have a point there, Mr. Over-Head. I'm honestly not sure that the Chiefs Nation is prepared for the embarrassing, out-of-control, humbling fiasco history will record as the Chiefs' 2009 season. We will, undoubtedly, be flat-out awful ... which, of course, means that sweeping the Faiders won't be considered by anybody as much of an achievement.

By the way, what do you think the odds are that you guys will go after Vick? I think it's a good fit, personally.

FAX

Pioli and Haley were planning on moving to the 3-4 long before the draft.

omg

Who's fighting with who? I might wanna' get involved.


:fire:

Threads like this are why his Dad gives people ass cancer...

You have to be able to read a defense and make good decisions to run the west coast offense.

Gailey's offense was much easier to make decisions and obviously the QB ran alot. The QB does not run very often in the west coast offense. He may scramble to throw, but that is not by design that the QB has any substantial rushing yardage. There is a huge difference between Gailey's offense and the west coast offense.

And no matter what anyone says on here about Gailey's offense last year, no one really knows how that would play out long term if the Chiefs would have stuck with it. It was successful last season.

Even Gailey's offense is designed to put the ball in the air in the passing game.
The fact remains that your QB has to make reads and attempt to make quick decisions to get the ball to recievers.

Running was the result of a breakdown in protection and/or a failure to make the necessary read.

It still remains that QBs that win SBs are pocket passers.

Steve Young couldn't get over that hump until he learned to use his legs to buy time rather than to to tuck and run.

Bringing Vick in does nothing to make this team better in the long term, and short term fixes can suck balls.

Vick is a suckass QB who happens to be a great athlete.

And this idea of yours sucks ass as much as Vick does, and you are a ****ing idiot of epic proportions for even thinking it.

hey... what else are we going to talk about on a Chiefs BB??? how the chiefs are gonna win 4-5 games this year if things work out well???

what could have been seems more interesting to me. maybe not realistic in the sense that it could ever happen with Pioli running the show, but interesting.

If Herm were still here it might could have happened. We know that Herm probably would have stuck with Thigpen and his role model, Tony Dungy, has reached out to Vick.

Herm might have brought in Vick to back up Thiggy in Gailey's offense. Herm probably would have picked Curry with the 1st pick. And I'm guessing he would have gone after Everette Brown with the 2nd pick because we would still be in the 4-3 and the pass rush would be a priority. He probably would have more faith in a small DE like Brown because of the success of Freeney with Dungy and Colts. We would still have Tony G.

What might have been could be interesting...

Please lord.

Make it stop.

You could get Vick for cheap! He rushed for 1000 yards but only had a pass completion percentage of 53% in 2006.. sign him as a wr

It depends on your defense and the ability of your team to run the ball. There have been several teams win the superbowl with average QB play and good luck.

There is no formula for winning the SB. But you can't win the superbowl if you don't make the playoffs.

I am also not afraid to say that something could work that hasn't been done before. Before the Rams won the superbowl in 99, people said that you couldn't win it all with that much passing and with a defense that wasn't that strong. I remember people saying, the weather won't allow for it. But they did it. I believe other teams will win the SB in the future with non traditional formulas. The wild cat will be a factor in a team winning the superbowl in the future. But just because it hasn't been done in the past doesn't mean that teams shouldn't use it.

Let me bottom line it for you.

Every SB winner, regardless of any other factor had one thing in common.

They had a pocket passer at QB.

Some were better scramblers than others.
Some were greats, some were mediocre.

But every single SB winning QB has been a pass first, run out of necessity QB.

Good defenses can contain a mediocre QB who's a runner first.
It's why Vick struggled mightily against the Bucs.

It's why Steve Young couldn't get out of the NFC playoffs until he became a passer first.

http://www.3simplerules.com/images/digging.jpg

Dude.....