Are multiple 2nd rd picks more valuable?
 

Sorry if this is covered in the other draft threads, but they are huge and intimidating and I don't really want to read through all of the personal attacks on Mecca LMAO

I was thinking about this the other day. Given that a lot of our first-round picks have been busts, can you get just as good of a player in the 2nd round? If so, why wouldn't you at least WANT to trade down to the 2nd round to pick up more players, and as a bonus, pay them less than first-rounder money?

If you can't hit on a 1st round pick what makes you think you can hit on a lower pick?

And for the most part no you can't get as good of a player.

This year second round picks are very valuable.. especially if you get more than just a second round pick in trading down. This is a deep year, you want all the picks in the first five rounds you can get.

This is what Carl Peterson did to our fanbase.

Someone hold me.

http://i.imgur.com/3kpaR.jpg

If we get two second round picks, I'm open to listening.

If it's just one extra second round pick, it's a stupid move.

How about two 1st? 1 this year, 1 next year?

Well, if you have more picks, the odds of hitting on them automatically goes up.

You probably know, but how many of the "elite" players in the league right now were first rounders as compared to those in the lower rounds?

And the Chiefs have a long and storied history of owning picks in the second round.

Look, lets not over-analyze this shit. Just because the Chiefs have drafted exceptionally poorly doesn't mean we need to try to re-invent the wheel.

No, the odds don't go up.

For example, Mecca could see as many 95 mph fastballs as you wanted to throw. 10? He won't hit one. Throwing 65 won't increase his odds.

The odds only go up for with the draft if you believe Pioli and company are merely throwing darts. After Thursday, we'll know if this should be their future approach.

Mathematically they do, but perhaps not practically.

Incompetency will overshadow any potential statistical increase.

Never underestimate the driving will of stupid.

I realize that Peterson is gone, but have you SEEN our list of 2nd round picks? I mean, really.

The odds could go up in the second round if you draft off a very specific positional value.

For example, drafting Guards and Right Tackles and Centers and Inside Linebackers and Running Backs and Safeties and Tight Ends... those are positions with a pretty high hit rate in the second round.

.

Depends on who the team is. Tough call, though. I'd tend to say no, because this is such a strong draft class.

The 2010 Pro Bowl featured 27 first-round picks among the 44 starters.

Ergo, the best players come from the first round.

For positions like QB the marquee number in the 1st round is higher than all the other rounds combined...

HA! We don't want Pro-Bowlers...we want the right Bowlers.

In all seriousness, can we just start the draft tomorrow? I feel like I'm bleeding to death through my eyes.

More horseshit from the Pioli ballwasher.

How did Junior Siavii and Kris Wilson work out?

What the **** are you talking about?

I've said 1000 times in multiple threads that a trade down is stupid unless you get two second round picks. And in that case, it's not a move I'd make if you pass on Clausen.

How is this in any way a defense of Pioli? It's saying if he makes this move, it's a really stupid one.

Name me a team that got ANYTHING by trading out of the first round completely into the second round.

Siavii and Wilson.

Ring a bell?

Okay, now get back to work. Pioli needs his taint licked.

If you really want to split hairs 17 of 22 AFC Pro Bowl starters were first-round picks last season. And the AFC is generally accepted as the more talented conference, isn't it?

Who said anything about trading out of the first round? I'm talking about a deal that would involve a low first and two seconds. Who wouldn't take that, if it became available?

And calling me a Pioli taint licker after I've said multiple times that trading down for only one extra pick is beyond stupid... where does that come from? Oh right, because you hear what you want to hear.

By the way, since you're so convinced I'm a Pioli ball-licker, let me make this clear: I think Pioli will have ****ed up the first round royally if he drafts an Offensive Tackle or McClain. Or if he passes on Clausen or Berry to move down in exchange for anything short of either a future first or two second rounders (in addition to the lower first they'd get in the trade down).

That's my clear line in the sand. And yes, I have a bad feeling he's going to do one of those dumb moves above.

But we're only one great player away from contending. Follow this site the previous two weeks and you'll know the planet has decided the Chiefs have no room for merely very good players.

The key to winning is putting all eggs in a basket, duh.

Maybe you can get lucky and hit in the second round, but skipping out on the first round means you could miss out on guys like:

Derrick Thomas
Barry Sanders
Willie Roaf
Lawrence Taylor
Walter Payton
Peyton Manning
Dan Marino
Jonathan Ogden
Deion Sanders
Jim Kelly
Torry Holt
Richard Seymour
Champ Bailey
Ed Reed
Dwight Freeney
Ray Lewis
Darrell Green
Derrick Brooks
Reggie Wayne
Keith Bulluck

Yeah, but it's possible to get two guys if the Chiefs trade down.

You get your playmakers in the first.

You can find good foundational players in the second, and if you're very lucky, find a gem there.

I'm all for stockpiling second rounders. But not at the expense of bringing in a playmaker. If you trade down, you better feel that the guy you trade down for is a playmaker, and not some "low risk" player like a Right Tackle or a good not great ILB like McClain.

I miss Willie Roaf.....:(

They have lots of room for very good players. But limited opportunities to bring in playmakers. There's the difference. Especially given that in free agency, most teams will pay the moon to keep their best playmakers.

When you have a top 5 pick, you have to take a playmaker. The Chiefs have a ton of picks in this draft after that pick to focus on those "very good" players.

You guys buds?

I lent him my girl when his was being jacked....

I met him at a signing and I was thinking to myself, this guy is ****ing huge!! I have an old school photo of it somewhere. I got to scan it one of these days.

Who's to say you can't find a so-called playmaker in the mid- to late- first round? I don't doubt Berry is gonna be great but if Earl Thomas is half a notch below and allows us to draft a strong second rounder, why not trade down?

Last years' first round is a small sample, I know, but I'm sure nearly every team drafting top 10 eyed a playmaker but it seems more teams struck gold drafting mid to late. Doesn't this support stockpiling?


Draft Tracker - Round One order
1 Lions Matthew Stafford QB
2 Rams Jason Smith OT
3 Chiefs Tyson Jackson DE
4 Seahawks Aaron Curry OLB
5 Jets Mark Sanchez QB
6 Bengals Andre Smith OT
7 Raiders Darrius Heyward-Bey WR
8 Jaguars Eugene Monroe OT
9 Packers B.J. Raji DT
10 49ers Michael Crabtree WR
11 Bills Aaron Maybin DE
12 Broncos Knowshon Moreno RB
13 Redskins Brian Orakpo DE
14 Saints Malcolm Jenkins CB
15 Texans Brian Cushing OLB
16 Chargers Larry English DE
17 Buccaneers Josh Freeman QB
18 Broncos Robert Ayers LB
19 Eagles Jeremy Maclin WR
20 Lions Brandon Pettigrew TE
21 Browns Alex Mack C
22 Vikings Percy Harvin WR
23 Ravens Michael Oher OT
24 Falcons Peria Jerry DT
25 Dolphins Vontae Davis CB
26 Packers Clay Matthews OLB
27 Colts Donald Brown RB
28 Bills Eric Wood C
29 Giants Hakeem Nicks WR
30 Titans Kenny Britt WR
31 Cardinals Chris Wells RB
32 Steelers Evander Hood DT

ok mecca ,what u say makes no sense,so tom brady was a lower round oh ok hes not good cause he was not picked in the 1st rd huh........noooooooooooo hes no good is he/get real.also member joe horn,lower pick ,pretty good,stop bein a crybaby,joe montana LOWER PK/wtf

The difference is that this draft is much more top-heavy. In last year's draft, I didn't think there were a ton of can't-miss playmakers of Berry's calibre.

Berry seems like a can't-miss home run. Trading down for Thomas isn't a disaster, if you're absolutely convinced he's as good or better. And you had better be right. Because if he's anything less than Berry, unless you get spectacular trade compensation, I'd rather have the better playmaker than have an extra pick in my pocket.

Charlie Casserly broke it down, using starting after 4 years as his measuring stick for success. Here's what he found:

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/04/20/c...nchez-jenkins/

Charlie Casserly sucks as a GM, though. Maybe he didn't practice what he preaches, though.

He's Scott Pioli, version 1.0.

He won three Super Bowls with the Redskins but when unleashed on his own, he sucked ****ing ass.

He was just looking at the statistics, and I thought it might help to answer your question.

I really hope Scott proves all the doubters wrong. Somehow, I doubt he will.

I just realized I used "though" too much in that post. Not sure what that means, though. ****. Though.

Not everyone can hit on 100% the way you can, Dane. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I know. I appreciate the post :)

WTF did this guy just say? If you're going to speak to me, speak in english...ENGLISH MOTHER****ER DO YOU SPEAK IT!

ROFL

this guy is hopeless Mecca

I'd try to answer his question if I knew what he was saying.

I think he was trying to make some point that I was wrong with my QB point with Brady and Montana, yet he throws in shit like kicker. Top that with the way he types and my brain started to bleed.

God damn it his bad grammar made the site give me a double post...

In a world where all we can see is each others opinion in general and their punctuation, that eric007 guy has the digital image to all of us of something like "Sloth" from "The Goonies".

HEYYY YOU GUUUYSSS....!!!

Rocky? ROAD??

I guess my answer would be that it matters on how deep the draft is. This year's is deep. you have many 1st rd talents that will prob drop into the 2nd rd. So I guess in THIS draft, having more 2nd rd picks would be more valuable.

But if there's a clear dropoff in talent in the first rd after like around 15-20.....then 1st rd is better because you're def getting a better player.

I love the trade down scenario.

We can just trade down and get this guy.

And what happens when we trade down and that player gets picked before we get a chance to take him?

**** that shit. Stay at #5 and draft Berry.

I like Berry but I'd rather have Brandon Graham.

PhilFree:arrow:

U skurrd?

Try speaking English next time you post.

pioli did not draft them chiefzilia,wtf

pioli was not even here ,how could he draft them

you dumb ****

He isnt talking about Pioli doing so, hes talking about how it worked out when we traded back to get "more good players" last time we traded out of the first round all together.

Just go post somewhere else, please.

**** U ASSHOLE

LOOK I WAS DISAGREEING WITH WHAT U SAID,THE STATEMENT, ANY PLAYER BEYOND THE FIRST RD IS TRASH/NOT TRUE,STOP BEIN A RUDE ASS HOLE,WHO THE **** R U,IM NOT GONNA KISS UR ASS LIKE GUYS ON HERE DO,I DON`T CARE WHO U R

Dude.....starters can be found in the later rounds of the draft......this is true. But the chances of it happening are slim.

You know why I hate Tom Brady so much? Because he was picked in the 6th round. Now every ****ing fan out there thinks that all you have to do is draft a QB in the 6th round every year....and you'll eventually find a HOF QB.

NOT GONNA ****ING HAPPEN.

very true,more picks the better,

Eric Berry isn't going to be "Eric Berry" unless the front 7 can get to the QB.

Brandon Graham is more valuable than Berry at this point IMO. I'd trade down and attempt to get Graham, since Vrabel is terrible and OLB is a glaring need for KC.

Close up shop, boys. Berry's the guy.

i agree with u,playmakers are everywhere,for people to judge a player just what round he went in is not smart or fair

wow,attackin me for no reason ,whatever,real mature idiot

i agree dude we need berry

AND THATS WHY YOUR NOT A GM