Tim Tebow is John Elway
 

You see, there are so many similarities between these 2 quarterbacks.

1. Both were extremely hyped college quarterbacks.
2. They both like to run around the field.
3. They both have lots of heart.
4. They both have championship rings.

and the real kicker:

5. John Elway, in his second season, lost to the Steelers in the wildcard playoff game at home.
6. Tim Tebow, in his second season, lost to the Steelers in the wildcard playoff game at home.

It's pretty eery

Only difference is that Elway actually was a good QB.

If that peckerhead turns into an Elway we are going to track you down.

Now with that said, Tebow an Elway ? That will take a miracle of major proportions.

Tebow as a passing QB is horrible right now and will probably be forever.

:popcorn:

You are so stupid.

They're both bad quarterbacks.

They both get more credit than they deserve for their team's wins.

people get so pissed when you say it but it's SO true :

Horseface never won shit until The Rat demoted him to the Number Two Option and made Terrell Davis the Number One Option.

deal with it Cheating Donkey homers

For the first ten years of the guy's career - TEN YEARS - he only had one year with a QB rating over 80, and it was 83.4. His average season was 3,021 yards with 16 TDs and 16 Ints.

How happy would we be if we drafted a QB with the #1 pick and he had those statistics for a full decade?

As a comparison, Elway's career rating is 79.9, with 3021 yards, 16 TDs and 16 Ints. During his 11 years in Philly, Donovan McNabb's rating was 85.6. He averaged 3,390 yards, 20 TDs, and 9 Ints. Which guy would you rather have?

I'm not defending Denver's favorite equine, but, out of curiosity, how did Elway's numbers measure up against other quarterbacks of the era?

His fans were hung up on how he kept putting the offense on his back and carrying his overachieving teams to the superbowl.

I guess they, for some reason, probably thought that was better than pretty statistics.

Let's look at the first ten years of other QBs of his era who had long careers.

Average season (and median on the QB rating):

Elway: 3,021 yards, 15.8 TDs, 15.8 Ints, QB Rating 74.6 (Best Year: 83.4)

Dan Marino: 3,950 yards, 29.0 TDs, 16.5 Ints, QB Rating 85.5 (Best Year: 108.9)

Jim Kelly: 3,266 yards, 22.3 TDs, 15.6 Ints, QB Rating 83.6 (Best Year: 101.2)

Neil Lomax (8 year career): 2,846 yards, 17.0 TDs, 11.3 Ints, QB Rating 83.1 (Best Year 92.5)

Jim Everett: 3,158 yards, 19.0 TDs, 15.5 Ints, QB Rating 79.8 (Best Year 90.6)

Randall Cunningham: 2,227 yards, 14.7 TDs, 10 Ints, QB Rating 76.6 (Best Year 91.6) (He didn't start as a rookie and missed nearly two other complete seasons, presumably due to injury.) In his seven full seasons (one of which he started only five games), he averaged 2,980 yards, 20.1 TDs, 12.4 Ints, and a QB Rating of 77.6.

Boomer Esiason: 2,909 yards, 19.0 TDs, 14.0 Ints, QB Rating 80.8 (Best Year 97.4)

Phil Simms: 2,574 yards, 15.8 TDs, 13.7 Ints, QB Rating 74.6 (Best Year 90.0) Missed two full seasons due to injury. In the eight full seasons, he averaged 2,881 yards, 17.8 TDs, 15.3 Ints, QB Rating 76.4.

So Elway wasn't as good as Neil Lomax or Jim Everett, using those two points of comparison. He was almost as good as Phil Simms, and wasn't in the same league as guys like Boomer Esiason, Randall Cunningham (injuries aside), Jim Kelly, or Dan Marino.

Those are some beautiful stats. I like this one though:

All 7 of the QBs you listed combined: 1 SB win
Elway: 2 SB wins

Rain Man's Elway hate fetish runs deep. Stats only matter if they make Elway look bad.

Phil Simms won two Super Bowls, moron

ROFL

Oh man, that's a wonderful attempt to tweak history ... all you had to do was watch the games.

Simms was on two Super Bowl teams, only starting QB in one of them. Lost the job in injury to Hostettler.

Meh.I hate horse face and he can still die in an aids tree fire but he was a pretty good QB.

Chiefs fans would have killed to have a QB like Elway.
That dude killed our hopes more then once...hence why I hate the guy.

But lets be honest, he was a good QB.

Did Elway have herpes? Cause Tebow does.


http://p.twimg.com/AiXnc35CAAAYXNo.jpg

Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy
Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln

No.
 

Moronic, ignorant, or too young to have watched Denver/KC games live. Elway had a rifle arm & was able to make a few 4th quarter comebacks.

At his best he was the nemeses of some good Chief football teams at Arrowhead. At his worst he was an entertaining Mr. Ed getting body slammed to the turf:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/data:...ULMgGXliq8g//ZThey both have 1 syllable in their first name and 2 syllables in their last names!
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002...r_2_xlarge.png
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/data:...ULMgGXliq8g//Z

LMAO

No more Tebow threads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not at first in the NFL. He's was down right terrible. But that thrird season it really picked up for him. Few QB's walk into the league and make an impact at the QB position to the point of deep playoff wins. I can only think of 2 Big Ben and Marino.

He did, but Hostetler was the QB for late regular season and the playoffs and the Super Bowl. Not Phil Sims.

A lot of it also was the cast around him and the style of offense that Reeves ran... Reeves wasn't near as conservative as Fox, but Reeves wasn't a pass happy oriented type of coach.

I do like to read comments about how they never won a title until Shanahan came in and it was all Davis. There aren't many QBs out there that have taken teams with a cast of characters like Denver had and won a lot of SBs. They had good teams, but they ere never dominant on the ground game. I mean, his best WRs were the Three Amigos - good, but they weren't the Marks brothers.

And, it's always interesting to see when fans like to use (or ignore) stats in favor of the side of the debate they're hammering.

Under Reeves:
9-7
13-3
11-5
11-5
10-4
8-8
11-5
5-11
12-4
8-8

Under Wade Phillips:
9-7
7-9

Under Shanahan:
8-8
13-3
12-4
14-2

16 Seasons ... 2 were 8-8 and 2 were under .500 ... 12 were 9+ wins

14-8 Postseason Record
5 SB appearances with 2 wins

Yes, they never dominated and won titles until Shanahan put a "team" around him... but the guy certainly didn't spare everyone to death in the years before Shanahan.

Elway retired as the QB with the most wins... bottom line, he was great.

Marino did great things in 1984... and that was THE ONLY season in which his teams won more than 1 playoff game... so he doesn't really fit your comment in bold above. Marino and his teams, from 1985 through 1999 never won more than 1 playoff game in a single season.

Big Ben ... yes, he fits - but you can't compare the team he had around him to what Dan or John had early in their careers.

I speak only the humble truth with my statistics. I repeat my question: would we be happy with a #1 pick QB who started for a decade and annually produced 16 TDs, 16 Ints, 3,000 yards, and a QB rating of 74?

Players who produced a rating in the 70 to 75 range this year were Josh Freeman, Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, Rex Grossman, Christian Ponder, and Sam Bradford.

LOL @ anybody who thinks Elway was a terrible QB. Hate him all you want, but he was great.

i never liked the guy .. he got too lucky against us too many times ......

I'm not saying he was terrible. He was almost as good as Jim Everett, and I thought Everett was a halfway decent quarterback.

:LOL: Comparing the NFL and the style of play from two eras that are 20 years apart... good luck.

Statistics are great though... in that 10 year span, he had 6 seasons over 16 TD passes... 6 with fewer than 16 INTs.

Again, different era and had he been in an offense with a pass friendly coach like Shula... yeah, he'd have the numbers that Marino put up.

Just deal with it...

I guess you missed the post comparing Elways stats to those of the same era.

Don't get me wrong, I think Elway is one of the five best of all time, but he did have pretty average stats.

Elway's annual rank in QB rating over the course of his career.

1983 - 27th
1984 - 17th
1985 - 17th
1986 - 11th
1987 - 12th
1988 - 18th
1989 - 17th
1990 - 14th
1991 - 19th
1992 - 20th
1993 - 3rd
1994 - 4th
1995 - 14th
1996 - 4th
1997 - 7th
1998 - 5th

Granted, from 1993 on he was productive, once new coaches arrived on the scene who recognized that he was more of a complementary player than a star to build around. Once they shifted the focus to other, better players, Elway did fine as a second banana type of quarterback.

Why?

Elway's annual rank in passing yards over the course of his career.

1983 - 28th
1984 - 15th
1985 - 2nd
1986 - 9th
1987 - 4th
1988 - 8th
1989 - 16th
1990 - 5th
1991 - 8th
1992 - 18th
1993 - 1st
1994 - 8th
1995 - 5th
1996 - 7th
1997 - 6th
1998 - 12th

So what we see here is the secret to why some people think Elway was "great". While he was a very inefficient quarterback, he got many, many chances to pile up statistics. Even then he was only in the top 10 percent of the league 2 years out of 16, but the bottom line is that he was given lots of opportunities despite his mediocre performance and was never benched, allowing him to pile up stats over the course of his so-called career.

I know that stats are the end-all. But ever watch him play?

Rain Man ... stats are your game for sure. You enjoy what you're doing if it makes you feel better, the bulk of us saw the games. If you want to rank him up there with guys like Jim Everett - you have fun, buddy.

It's too silly for me to get caught up with it to be quite honest with you. You have a great skill for the spin. One thing that is funny is how you say his stats got better when he was surrounded by better players, suggesting that he no longer had to be the man or the best player on the team.

How about all those wins? Very consistent throughout his career... whether he was surrounded by "ok talent" or "great talent". Obviously the personal stats improve when you have better players around you.

Look how Marino's stats dropped later in his career, during the last 7-8 years. Marino didn't improve with age. No, as the team became a bit void of talent... and entering a more 'pass friendly era' in the NFL, Marino became less prolific... while Elway became more prolific.

Interesting when you peel back that onion.

Rain Man trolling Donkey fans? Awesome.

That has to be one of the most heroic SB stories of all time, in my opinion. Phil Simms winning a SB from the bench? I don't think there's any way that ever gets topped.

You sure do think QB rating is the most important thing ever don't you?

So by your logic Cassel > Elway.

Solid logic. Not flawed at all.

I hate elway more than any player ever, and it's not because he was an average QB. I can't believe anyone could watch him play and say this nonsense. Elway could do things on a football field that nobody has done before or since.

What hurt Elway early in his career is he relied too much on his gun arm, and frankly threw the ball so hard that his receivers couldn't catch it. He had no touch until late in his career. His completion percentages were pretty low until then. I'd compare him early on to Stafford.

I remember them saying something about how broncos WR's had to really practice or have certain hands just so they could catch his balls

Yeah, but throwing the ball hard and receivers talking about having the "Elway Cross" on their hands from catching the blazing passes isn't why the numbers were low.

It's a mix of the talent at WR/TE/RB and the offense called by Reeves. There are many reasons why Reeves and Shanahan clashed when he was working for Dan. There's a reason why Shanahan and Elway became such fans of each other and grew tired of Dan's game plans.

They both realized Horseface would never take them to the Promised Land so they Demoted him and agreed getting Terrell Davis and promoting him to the Number One Offensive Option was the only way theyd win it?

Ha - yeah, that's exactly it...

I have been around long enough to see quite a few QBs play. Elway was as good as any I have seen. Had Elway played for Bill Walsh he would have rewritten the record book. When the 9ers beat the Broncos 55-10 I said at the time and still believe if Elway would have been playing for the 49ers and Montana was playing for the the Broncos the score would have been much worse. I can only imagine what he would have done with the great Cowboy teams behind that line with the offensive weapons they had. I do know this much to compare Tebow and Elway is way beyond silly.

Well...he was an average QB in Statis Pro Football.

and forever Ringless as the Number One Option. totally Ringless if you factor in the Crisco and the Cap Cheating.

Well I am not going to argue with a girl over it :p sorry my friend and rival I still get a chuckle that "whoman" was mistaken for woman. I guess it is always a debate when these discussions take place. IMO that guy was something special and the only thing that exceeded my hate for him was my respect for his ability.

First off. Elway was NEVER EVER as good as Denver fans, or even a lot of KC fans, think or remember.

There are a few factors here.

One, the AFC was absolutely garbage for most of the 80's. Elway was the best of a shitty bunch. Big ****in deal. He got decimated in the three super bowls he played in before Shanahan came along and they cheated the cap and played borderline rule breaking schemes.

If Elway is going to be given all the credit for carrying those shit teams, then he'll take all the blame for getting his shit pushed in in those 3 super bowls. You can't have it both ways.

The fact is, Elway was not quite as good as Jim Kelly. If the Bills had won 2 or 3 of those SB's no one would really be having that discussion.

The years they went to the playoffs and super bowls, Denver generally had good defenses. Let's not kid ourselves.

The years they went to the playoffs before Rayboy arrived, when Elway was supposedly carrying that team the defense was ranked (in terms of points allowed....)


83 - 9th
84 - 2nd
86 - 15th
87 - 7th
89 - 1st
91- 3rd
93 - 10th

Let's stop ****ing about like Elway carried some god damn team. 6 of the 7 seasons they went to the playoffs Denver fielded a top 10 defense. Hell, three of those seasons they were top 3!

Elway built a legacy based on some 4th quarter comebacks. But the guy never carried a god damn team. It's stupid. Denver fans have their heads up their asses when it comes to Elway.

They were cheating wins. Pam spray anyone?

Good point.

Oh, I loved that game.

the Guardian and Hemied make some really good points. I didn't realize the extent to which the defense was carrying those Broncos teams.

Go ahead and list the Hall of Fame RBs, WRs, and OL he played with. Heck list the Pro Bowl players he played with on offense...you know that popularity contest they hold every year. Now list the All Pros he played with. All the other QBs he is compared with had vastly superior talent surrounding them.

LMAO at people taking Rainman's bait seriously.

Elway was "the best QB to never win a SB" until Shanahan came up with the solution, cooking spray.

He is just stating facts.

I think you missed the part where I was talking about how he carried the TEAM. The defenses of those playoff years more than held up their end in helping to get that team to the post season.

I'm not going to ask where you got that picture Ed. :)

The dumb that oozes out of this post hurts us all. Posts like this are why we can't have nice things.

So go ahead and list the Hall of Fame, Pro Bowl, and All Pro players on the defenses you speak of. You either did not get the chance to watch him due to age or you are a stats guy. Either way we will have to agree to disagree.

Wow you really are a ****ing idiot.

you're supposedly a Chiefs Fan.... yet you're calling another Chiefs Fan an Idiot for telling the truth about Horseface being Overrated on a Chiefs message board.

not sure you're a Chiefs Fan at all now...

Bobby Bell, Tony Gonzalez, Will Shields, Derrick Thomas were elite football players. I'm a Bronco and I have no problem with that. You can be a 'true fan' and not be a 'true retart'.

I think the Guardian's post is very insightful. It exposes the myth that Elway carried his team, when in fact Elway was merely Matt Cassel with an ego.

I know it's forbidden but I think I love you.

What little I have read from you it is clear you are just one of those clowns who look to get a reaction from people or you are just an idiot. God damn I wish gochiefs would start a school on how to troll a site. He has put on a clinic on how to troll for years and you and all the other wanna be reaction posters should take lessons because all of you are amateurs. It is impossible to get angry at your feeble attempts. It is much like a child stumbling while taking its first steps. The poster you are calling out is a very solid poster. Do me a favor and search gochiefs posts and learn something and get back to us later.

I wasnt be a troll attempting to get a reaction - I am a Chiefs Fan calling out another Chiefs Fans for defending Horseface, the most Overrated Scumbag Piece of Shit QB to Ever Play. If that isn't obvious you shouldnt be on this site, as a Raider Fan or Chiefs Fan.

So what if the poster has a solid history of rep and a lengthy post status? he's immune to criticism and it's ok for him to call Chiefs Fans idiots for being homers? On a CHIEFS WEBSITE?

I'd rather be shitty troll (which i'm not) than an grade a Ass Kisser Raider Fan sucking off as many people as possible on a Chiefs Board cause you were too much a pussy to make it on the oakland board.

We'd all be slurping the metal dick of the Elway statue outside Arrowhead if he had played for us and won us championships.

Not if you're True Fan that thinks horseface deserved to sniff Joe Montana's jock you're not.

In them first 10 years, how many superbowls did he go to and how many play off wins? I'd definately take that. Remember who elway had around him as recievers early in his career. They were not good players. They were pretty ****ing terrible. As was their running backs.

And how many top 10 defenses?

Again, Elway was NOT that team.

For reference, here are Elway's performances in those Super Bowls.

Super Bowl 21
Cmp Att Yds Y/A TD Int Lng Rate
John Elway 22 37 304 8.2 1 1 54 83.6

Super Bowl 22
Cmp Att Yds Y/A TD Int Lng Rate
John Elway 14 38 257 6.8 1 3 56 36.8

Super Bowl 24
Cmp Att Yds Y/A TD Int Lng Rate
John Elway 10 26 108 4.2 0 2 27 19.4

Super Bowl 32*
Cmp Att Yds Y/A TD Int Lng Rate
John Elway 12 22 123 5.6 0 1 36 51.9

*Willful and illegal violations of the salary cap produced unfair advantages for the team in this year.

Super Bowl 33*
Cmp Att Yds Y/A TD Int Lng Rate
John Elway 18 29 336 11.6 1 1 80 99.2

*Willful and illegal violations of the salary cap produced unfair advantages for the team in this year.


In total, he went 76 of 152 for 1,128 yards, 3 TDs, and 8 Ints in Super Bowls. This equates to an average game of 15 for 30 for 226 yards, 0 TDs and 2 Ints.

His overall QB rating in Super Bowls was 59.3. Yeah, that's a clutch player.

ROFL Nobodies fans gets more Bent Out Shape over hearing the truth about their QB than Donkey Fans do with Horseface.

In the first year that the Broncos were given a Super Bowl trophy (which was not later reclaimed once the willful and illegal salary cap violations were revealed), the Broncos played in four postseason games. Elway's pass yardage in those games? 223, 170, 210, and 123.

In the second year that the Broncos were given a Super Bowl trophy (which was not later reclaimed once the willful and illegal salary cap violations were revealed), the Broncos played in three postseason games. Elway's pass yardage in those games? 182, 173, and 336 (25% of which came on one play).

When the Broncos were given the Super Bowl trophies (prior to discover of their willful and illegal salary cap violations), they did so in spite of Elway, not because of him. He had been relegated primarily to handoffs.