WTF: Sex Change at 12 years old

[Rooster]

Unhappy as a boy, Kim became youngest ever transsexual at 12

By Bojan Pancevski in Vienna, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:12am GMT 29/01/2007

A boy of 12 is believed to have become the world's youngest sex change patient after convincing doctors that he wanted to live the rest of his life as a female.

The boy - originally called Tim, but now known as Kim - has started to receive hormone treatment, in preparation for the operation that will eventually complete the sex change.

Tim was diagnosed as a transsexual two years ago, when doctors and psychiatrists concluded that his claims to be "in the wrong body" were so deeply felt that he required treatment. The therapy involves artificially arresting male puberty, with a series of potent hormone injections before the administration of female hormones to initiate the development of features such as breasts.

Now aged 14, and officially registered as a female, Kim looks like a typical girl of her age. She dresses in fashionable clothes, has long blonde hair and blue eyes and dreams of moving to Paris to become a fashion designer. Her parents, who initially assumed their son was going through a temporary phase, eventually grew accustomed to seeing him as a girl.

The family's full identity has not been made public. But Kim's father, known as Lutz P. – speaking to the German publications Der Spiegel and Stern – said that as a child, the boy liked to play with Barbie dolls, enjoyed wearing dresses and, from the age of two, insisted that he was a girl. "We saw Kim as a girl, but not as a problem. Our life was surprisingly normal."

Kim reacted badly to the first signs of puberty, he said. "At that stage we realised that she was terrified of growing facial hair and her voice breaking."

Kim's parents consulted psychiatrists across Germany. Some condemned their support of their child's desire to undergo a sex change, or suggested that Kim be kept under observation in a closed psychiatric ward. But others agreed that the child should receive therapy, because growing up to be a man would have damaged her personality.

Dr Bern Meyenburg, the head of a clinic for children and adolescents with identity disturbances at Frankfurt University, concluded that the child was serious. He wrote in his diagnosis: "Kim is a mentally well-developed child who appears happy and balanced. There is no doubt of the determined wish, that was already detectable since early childhood. It would have been very wrong to let Kim grow up to be a man. It is rare to have such a clear-cut case."

Kim is reportedly fully accepted by her fellow school pupils and teachers. The costs of the procedure are being covered by health insurance, as the condition qualifies as an illness.

Dr Achim Wuesthof, an endocrinologist specialising in children and adolescents, who is treating the teenager at a clinic in Hamburg, said the procedure had been a success so far. Speaking to The Sunday Telegraph, he said that even though under-16s were not permitted to undergo a sex change in other countries, he and his colleagues felt that in this case it had been best to start earlier. He said: "To the best of my knowledge, Kim is the youngest sex change patient in the world. According to German law, two independent psychiatrists must confirm that the child is indeed transsexual and approve the sex change. Once that has been done, it is best to start as early as possible.

"Transsexuals experience the onset of puberty, and the physical changes it brings, as a serious trauma. But there is a general lack of empathy with cases like Kim's, mostly because people know little about the condition. Imagine a man that suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman that starts growing a beard against their will – that is how Kim and people like her experience puberty.

"They are not freaks, nor do they suffer mental illness. They are simply trapped in the wrong bodies. That is why it is best to help them as early as possible and reduce the trauma for them and their families."

The problem that Dr Meyenburg and other psychiatrists faced was distinguishing a true transsexual personality from a temporary gender identity crisis. Dr Meyenburg quoted an example of a 15-year-old girl who wanted to change her sex, but who revealed during counselling that she had suffered brutal sexual abuse by her father – a case for psychological, rather than hormonal therapy.

Should Kim change her mind before the surgery, the procedure could be reversed. Doctors admit that the treatment involves a risk, however, and that its effects on children as young as Kim are not fully understood.

For legal reasons, the final stage – cosmetic surgery to remove the male genitalia – cannot take place until Kim is 18. Britain's youngest transsexual is Angel Paris-Jordan, who was granted an operation on the NHS at the age of 17.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../28/wkim28.xml

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

You know what's funny is that people here go on and on about how dangerous using a little roids is but don't say jack shit here because it's politically incorrect. We are talking massive hormonal change.

That's an interesting point. I would guess there is probably not a hell of a lot of scientific data to see what damage you might be doing to yourself over a lifetime of trying to change yourself chemically into a member of the opposite sex.

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Cochise

That's an interesting point. I would guess there is probably not a hell of a lot of scientific data to see what damage you might be doing to yourself over a lifetime of trying to change yourself chemically into a member of the opposite sex.

Can you imagine the outrage that would be shown to me wanting all of you to support a lifetime of steroid use so I could feel like more of a man?

[Redrum_69]

Dont let believer see this thread...they'd sprain their brain trying to come up with the bible verse

[Ultra Peanut]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

Why is that? I would have loved to have been a drop dead gorgeous lipstick lesbian in America. I would have the world by the huevos and would have never had to work. UP said himself ever sense he was young he wanted to be a little girl.

Wow, you hit the nail on the head! When I was four years old, I said to myself, "Self, I wish I were a drop dead gorgeous lipstick lesbian! That would make things so much easier, and being female just seems so convenient!"

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

Bottom line is I believe our bodies are nothing more than the vessel we are living in while we are here. UP believes his body is what he is.

People interact with you in different ways depending on your appearance. I have always identified as a female, for whatever reason, and would love nothing more than to have people treat me as such without question. Guess what, though: It's not going to happen without a lot of work on my behalf. Until then, I'm "he" this and "him" that. Do you know how it feels to have every reference to yourself sting, as some sort of defiant denial of your very being? Do you know how it feels to fear that no one will ever truly know who you are?

That's why allowing someone in that 12-15 range to stop puberty from making decisions they may not want is an extremely good thing. That's why society as a whole having the slightest bit of understanding -- rather than saying, "your body says you're (this), deal with it!" -- is an extremely good thing. It keeps them from having even more obstacles on an already treacherous road.

"Disfiguring yourself" is currently the best option most transsexuals have, because as stated earlier, suicide rates among those who attempt to deal with the issue with therapy and therapy alone are very, very high.

I'm sure it's because they're all just shallow fools rather than the fact that every relationship and interaction they ever experience in their lives rings hollow.

[ClevelandChief]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Why does she have socks on her hands? Is she getting into the whole domesticated housewife thing, too?
Good. If you're going to be a woman, then you'd better be prepared to go all the way with it.

Maybe he forgets and still uses his socks for "other" things....


In related news, if I was 15 I'd do him/her.

[Amnorix]

If the kid has identified himself as a female since age 2, then I'm not sure what the parents and kids and doctors have done here is totally insane.

That said, I'm not a big fan of state funding of sex change therapy and/or surgery. Ultimately, the state isn't responsible for fixing every problem in people's lives, and just becaues they can't afford to fix it themselves doesn't mean it suddenly and automatically becomes the government's problem.

I support limited universal health care, because I view our current system as insane, dysfunctional, and teetering towards a breakdown. I havent' analyzed the heatlh care industry closely, and don't know where to draw the lines, but the kind of universal health care I would support would not likely include this kind of situation. Even if being in the wrong body causes lots of stress, etc., which may well be true, I don't view it as the government's problem to fix (no pun intended).

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

Wow, you hit the nail on the head! When I was four years old, I said to myself, "Self, I wish I were a drop dead gorgeous lipstick lesbian! That would make things so much easier, and being female just seems so convenient!"

You have to quit twisting things if you want to be taken seriously. I said I would have loved to been born gorgeous female. The lipstick lesbian part would have been my choice. None of that had anything to do with you just my preference if I had been born in a female body.

[Chiefnj]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

If the kid has identified himself as a female since age 2, then I'm not sure what the parents and kids and doctors have done here is totally insane.

That said, I'm not a big fan of state funding of sex change therapy and/or surgery. Ultimately, the state isn't responsible for fixing every problem in people's lives, and just becaues they can't afford to fix it themselves doesn't mean it suddenly and automatically becomes the government's problem.

I support limited universal health care, because I view our current system as insane, dysfunctional, and teetering towards a breakdown. I havent' analyzed the heatlh care industry closely, and don't know where to draw the lines, but the kind of universal health care I would support would not likely include this kind of situation. Even if being in the wrong body causes lots of stress, etc., which may well be true, I don't view it as the government's problem to fix (no pun intended).

Would you say the child has a form of mental illness?

[Walter]

Holy wow, dudes and dudettes.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

Would you say the child has a form of mental illness?

I'm not sure whether this situation is a mental illness or more like homosexuality, which I do not view as a mental illness.

"Deviant" sexual behavior, whether it relates to what one DOES in the bedroom or what one wants to be, sexually, is open to alot of room for debate. Whether it's normal, deviant or a mental illness is how the rest of society categorizes them.

Male homosexuality in ancient Greece -- accepted and normal. Male homoesexuality in America in the 1950s? Criminal conduct and total social ostracization. Male homosexuality in 2007, accepted in theory, but usually frowned upon by huge elements of society.

Female homosexuality in 2007 by those same huge elements -- often it's a

Cross-dressing
anal sex
oral sex
pedophelia
BDSM
homosexuality
gender "confusion" or whatever it's called

Which of these are innocent if done by consenting individuals, and which are criminal, insane, or legitimate?

Pedophilia is the only one that I think of as being automatically illegal, because it involves someone who CANNOT consent, because they're too young to consent. Everything else is up for debate.

You may laugh about anal sex or oral sex, but in many states, one or the other was illegal until as recently as 25 or 30 years ago, and in some states they still are illegal.

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

People interact with you in different ways depending on your appearance. I have always identified as a female, for whatever reason, and would love nothing more than to have people treat me as such without question. Guess what, though: It's not going to happen without a lot of work on my behalf. Until then, I'm "he" this and "him" that. Do you know how it feels to have every reference to yourself sting, as some sort of defiant denial of your very being? Do you know how it feels to fear that no one will ever truly know who you are?

That's why allowing someone in that 12-15 range to stop puberty from making decisions they may not want is an extremely good thing. That's why society as a whole having the slightest bit of understanding -- rather than saying, "your body says you're (this), deal with it!" -- is an extremely good thing. It keeps them from having even more obstacles on an already treacherous road.

"Disfiguring yourself" is currently the best option most transsexuals have, because as stated earlier, suicide rates among those who attempt to deal with the issue with therapy and therapy alone are very, very high.

I'm sure it's because they're all just shallow fools rather than the fact that every relationship and interaction they ever experience in their lives rings hollow.

1. Of course people interact with people different based upon their appearance. That applies to everyone and there many people with many very real issues but I wouldn't condone society paying to make those changes happen. What's next, little Betty Sue has no boobs so guys are not attracted to her and we all need to foot the bill? I am sure she would like to be treated like Jesse Jane but that just isn't going to happen until she saves up enough money to make it happen. Truth is she will probably never look the way she wants or be treated the way she would like but she can give it a shot on her own coin. Same applies to you. You think cutting your penis off and taking hormones is going to get you treated the way you want? Not gonna happen. Now you will just be a dude with a sex change. Even if you manage to manipulate your appearance to look attractive what are you going to do, not tell the guy your going out with? Do you think if guys know they will treat you like a woman? Can you have a baby? No, you're just a guy with a sex change who will be treated like a freak instead of being treated like a dude unless you are will to try and live a complete lie. JMO

2. Know who you are? This gets back to what I was talking about before. You are who you are and that has very little to do with the vessel that you're living in IMO. This is a basic fundamental difference we have with each other. I think we just need to agree to disagree on this. Suffice to say if I thought all I was was this flesh I am living in I would be depressed no matter what.

3. Is the suicide rate for people disfiguring themself any better?

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I support limited universal health care, because I view our current system as insane, dysfunctional, and teetering towards a breakdown. I havent' analyzed the heatlh care industry closely, and don't know where to draw the lines, but the kind of universal health care I would support would not likely include this kind of situation. Even if being in the wrong body causes lots of stress, etc., which may well be true, I don't view it as the government's problem to fix (no pun intended).

The current system is broke. Show me universal health care that is where they are getting better medical attention than we are here.

I agree cosmetic surgery should not be covered if we had it.

[Chief Nute]

Is there anyway that we could turn this into a poop thread? I am more qualified to talk about poop. I know nothing about sex changes.

This is just boring and weird.