Sizing up the DT's - Page 25

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 08:16 PM

January 22, 2008

If you have ever watched the National Geographic Channel, you would know that the grizzly bear is a fearsome creature. When the grizzly bear stands on its hind legs, you know you are in trouble but don’t try to run because the grizzly bear is violently quick, running at an alarming 35 miles per hour.

In the 2008 draft, there are two defensive tackles that resemble grizzly bears. Louisiana State’s Glenn Dorsey and Southern Cal’s Sedrick Ellis are two of the most feared DTs to come out in the same year since 1994 when Dan Wilkinson and Bryant Young both went within the first seven selections of the NFL Draft.

One on One

When we break down the tape, both Dorsey and Ellis are fierce linemen with more physical tools than any highly regarded defensive tackle since Tommie Harris in 2004. We won’t get a confirmed height and weight for Glenn Dorsey until the NFL Combine, but he is reportedly 6’2”, 303 lbs. At the Senior Bowl, Sedrick Ellis sized in at 6’0”, 308 lbs.

LSU’s Glenn Dorsey recorded 7 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss, and 69 total tackles as a senior in 2007. He also forced 1 fumble, hurried the quarterback 3 times, and broke up 3 passes. Dorsey may have the ideal frame for a defensive tackle but his quickness is similar to a defensive end’s. He does well as a pass rusher and usually was double teamed in 2007. Despite playing hurt most of 2007, Dorsey managed to change the momentum of games, especially against South Carolina. Dorsey’s arm length doesn’t wow scouts but the ability to dominate in one-on-one situations and swallow any gap around him makes up for what he lacks physically.

The Trojans have had a hidden gem in Sedrick Ellis for some time but he didn’t begin to garnish national attention until his senior year. In 2007, Ellis filled up his stat sheet with 8.5 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss and 58 total tackles. He also had 1 quarterback hurry and 7 passes broken up. Ellis isn’t as big height-wise as scouts like, but his extraterrestrial strength and speed makes him a highly regarded prospect. He is very instinctive and leads with a very quick first step. Watching Ellis is like watching a fundamental video on how to shed blocks. He possesses sound techniques and has top-notch intangibles. Like Dorsey, Ellis has had injury problems, breaking his ankle in 2003 and injuring his left knee in 2006. When it comes to disrupting the fluidity on offense for opponents, there is not one prospect in this draft that can do that like Sedrick Ellis.

Natural Habitat

Unlike Ellis, Glenn Dorsey would be better suited for just the 4-3 defensive scheme. As you can see, Ellis could play in both the 3-4 and 4-3. Dorsey is solid in shedding blockers but isn’t the nose tackle prospect Haloti Ngata was a couple of years’ back. Meanwhile, Sedrick Ellis is a hog at both positions, relinquishing the power that the center and guards may have on him and dominating the trenches.

While you may be confused and start to wonder, how is Dorsey more highly regarded than Ellis? He simply isn’t. As you read this, there are scouts and pro personnel breaking down film trying to decipher who is better suited for what and who has shown more weakness than the other. At the end of the day, it may be a push. Dorsey has a quicker first step and may use his hands better than Ellis but Ellis is quicker to dominate a double-team than Dorsey. Both DTs have played through injuries during their time in school and both have anchored a BCS defense.

Conclusion

If there were any fair comparison’s to current NFL DTs, I would put Glenn Dorsey in the Kevin Williams category and place Sedrick Ellis in the Albert Haynesworth category. In all honesty though, there are no fair comparisons. Both have the upside as the aforementioned Pro Bowler’s. Both have the talent and value to award them with bank-breaking rookie contracts. The only difference between the two is that depending on defensive scheme, one will get drafted ahead of the other.

Don’t look for the Miami Dolphins to draft Glenn Dorsey if they put in place a 3-4 scheme. Instead, look for them to address another need or grab a defensive end. On the other hand, Dorsey would fit in well with the St. Louis Rams (to replace La’Roi Glover). Sedrick Ellis meanwhile would be a great fit for the Miami Dolphins but his stock is not quite that up that high yet. Ellis plays with a Warren Sapp-like mean streak and could fit in well with Oakland. Regardless of this speculation, both Dorsey and Ellis will be top 8 eight selections come April.

So who is the better prospect? Flip a coin -- you can’t be wrong with heads or tails. This is the perfect win-win scenario for a franchise picking early in the draft that needs to address the middle of their defensive line.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-24-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Mecca,
With so many holes would you drop back to the Bears spot to gain a 2nd rounder?

No. We need ELITE prospects, not just a cadre of good ones.

mylittlepony · 01-24-2008, 12:09 AM

I sort of agree with if we're getting a DT in the first we get a OT in the second because of the depth. But saying that there is nothing that tells us if we get a OT in the first we will get scrubs in the second. I ve seen many mocks predicting Terell Thomas dropping to the second round where he would be available for us. A guy I see as perfect for our Cover 2 defense.

I think Jake Long can be the same type of game changer on Offence that many of you think that Ellis can be on defense. We have so many holes we really need both. And sure we'de get a front 4 that would be the envy of the NFL with ellis. But how many yards can we get on the ground between Waters and Long? Like people said we just have too many holes.

Mecca · 01-24-2008, 12:14 AM

That's fine but odds are it's partially because they have picks...

They have no need to move in the draft. Smoke screen all the way..it would be total stupidity.

CupidStunt · 01-24-2008, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Just know if you take Long first you will get 0 Dline help in this draft

Dude, you're a f**king blithering idiot. There are a number of DTs and DEs that can be had after the first round. Contrary to the garbage you're spewing, after Long and the other sure-fire first-round OTs, there isn't a ton of OT depth.

A guy like Cherilus will be there with KC's pick ... and they'll pass on him because he's a f**king scrub. Jake Long and Pat Sims tops anyone else KC could get in rounds one and two.

Bottom line is simple: You're a wannabe draft guru who actually doesn't know sh*t. The talent evaluators getting paid to do a job will determine who's worth a pick and who isn't. If the Chiefs go with Long and a whole host of other players in the following rounds, that's good for them. It isn't Ellis or bust. DT isn't any bigger a need than WR, OG, QB, CB, LB, S, etc.

Quote:

But saying that there is nothing that tells us if we get a OT in the first we will get scrubs in the second.

That's because it's a stupid, untrue theory posted by a goofy fanboy who knows nothing about talent evaluation.

Come April, if the Chiefs can land Long -- a stud -- in the first round, they're extremely poised to land a stud in the second, whether it's a WR like Manningham, a DT like Sims, a LB like Highsmith or a CB like McKelvin.

Chiefnj2 · 01-24-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

No. We need ELITE prospects, not just a cadre of good ones.

There are no elite prospects after the 5th pick?

01-22-2008, 08:16 PM
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2147050	Sizing up the DT's January 22, 2008 If you have ever watched the National Geographic Channel, you would know that the grizzly bear is a fearsome creature. When the grizzly bear stands on its hind legs, you know you are in trouble but don’t try to run because the grizzly bear is violently quick, running at an alarming 35 miles per hour. In the 2008 draft, there are two defensive tackles that resemble grizzly bears. Louisiana State’s Glenn Dorsey and Southern Cal’s Sedrick Ellis are two of the most feared DTs to come out in the same year since 1994 when Dan Wilkinson and Bryant Young both went within the first seven selections of the NFL Draft. One on One When we break down the tape, both Dorsey and Ellis are fierce linemen with more physical tools than any highly regarded defensive tackle since Tommie Harris in 2004. We won’t get a confirmed height and weight for Glenn Dorsey until the NFL Combine, but he is reportedly 6’2”, 303 lbs. At the Senior Bowl, Sedrick Ellis sized in at 6’0”, 308 lbs. LSU’s Glenn Dorsey recorded 7 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss, and 69 total tackles as a senior in 2007. He also forced 1 fumble, hurried the quarterback 3 times, and broke up 3 passes. Dorsey may have the ideal frame for a defensive tackle but his quickness is similar to a defensive end’s. He does well as a pass rusher and usually was double teamed in 2007. Despite playing hurt most of 2007, Dorsey managed to change the momentum of games, especially against South Carolina. Dorsey’s arm length doesn’t wow scouts but the ability to dominate in one-on-one situations and swallow any gap around him makes up for what he lacks physically. The Trojans have had a hidden gem in Sedrick Ellis for some time but he didn’t begin to garnish national attention until his senior year. In 2007, Ellis filled up his stat sheet with 8.5 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss and 58 total tackles. He also had 1 quarterback hurry and 7 passes broken up. Ellis isn’t as big height-wise as scouts like, but his extraterrestrial strength and speed makes him a highly regarded prospect. He is very instinctive and leads with a very quick first step. Watching Ellis is like watching a fundamental video on how to shed blocks. He possesses sound techniques and has top-notch intangibles. Like Dorsey, Ellis has had injury problems, breaking his ankle in 2003 and injuring his left knee in 2006. When it comes to disrupting the fluidity on offense for opponents, there is not one prospect in this draft that can do that like Sedrick Ellis. Natural Habitat Unlike Ellis, Glenn Dorsey would be better suited for just the 4-3 defensive scheme. As you can see, Ellis could play in both the 3-4 and 4-3. Dorsey is solid in shedding blockers but isn’t the nose tackle prospect Haloti Ngata was a couple of years’ back. Meanwhile, Sedrick Ellis is a hog at both positions, relinquishing the power that the center and guards may have on him and dominating the trenches. While you may be confused and start to wonder, how is Dorsey more highly regarded than Ellis? He simply isn’t. As you read this, there are scouts and pro personnel breaking down film trying to decipher who is better suited for what and who has shown more weakness than the other. At the end of the day, it may be a push. Dorsey has a quicker first step and may use his hands better than Ellis but Ellis is quicker to dominate a double-team than Dorsey. Both DTs have played through injuries during their time in school and both have anchored a BCS defense. Conclusion If there were any fair comparison’s to current NFL DTs, I would put Glenn Dorsey in the Kevin Williams category and place Sedrick Ellis in the Albert Haynesworth category. In all honesty though, there are no fair comparisons. Both have the upside as the aforementioned Pro Bowler’s. Both have the talent and value to award them with bank-breaking rookie contracts. The only difference between the two is that depending on defensive scheme, one will get drafted ahead of the other. Don’t look for the Miami Dolphins to draft Glenn Dorsey if they put in place a 3-4 scheme. Instead, look for them to address another need or grab a defensive end. On the other hand, Dorsey would fit in well with the St. Louis Rams (to replace La’Roi Glover). Sedrick Ellis meanwhile would be a great fit for the Miami Dolphins but his stock is not quite that up that high yet. Ellis plays with a Warren Sapp-like mean streak and could fit in well with Oakland. Regardless of this speculation, both Dorsey and Ellis will be top 8 eight selections come April. So who is the better prospect? Flip a coin -- you can’t be wrong with heads or tails. This is the perfect win-win scenario for a franchise picking early in the draft that needs to address the middle of their defensive line.
Posts: 111,255

01-24-2008, 12:09 AM	#362
mylittlepony Starter Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Casino cash: $10005855	I sort of agree with if we're getting a DT in the first we get a OT in the second because of the depth. But saying that there is nothing that tells us if we get a OT in the first we will get scrubs in the second. I ve seen many mocks predicting Terell Thomas dropping to the second round where he would be available for us. A guy I see as perfect for our Cover 2 defense. I think Jake Long can be the same type of game changer on Offence that many of you think that Ellis can be on defense. We have so many holes we really need both. And sure we'de get a front 4 that would be the envy of the NFL with ellis. But how many yards can we get on the ground between Waters and Long? Like people said we just have too many holes.
Posts: 921

01-24-2008, 12:14 AM	#363
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2147050	That's fine but odds are it's partially because they have picks... They have no need to move in the draft. Smoke screen all the way..it would be total stupidity.
Posts: 111,255