How stubborn is the coaching staff ??

09-20-2000, 05:04 PM

First time poster, long time voyeur - about 2 years now (including Star BB [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] )

To the point. I am hoping that Gunther and company are not going to be stubborn come Sunday at Denver. What are the chances that last Sunday the staff knew that the home fans would have booed the whole game if they had gone with the run, run, run plan that they wanted, and passed the ball just to keep the peace and woops- it worked.

This Sunday away from the confines of Arrowhead will they revert to the run? Just to prove to us all that they are right and we are wrong. KC runs the ball to set up the pass you know.

Gunther to Grunny "Here it comes Grunny - don't turn to far right or left - cause it could go right up your A$$ !! "

What do you all think? I hope that they learn a lesson from their 'mistake' against The Chargers, and hoist the new KC Passing War Flag, that opens up the KC Smashmouth running game- featuring Frank Moreau and T-REX.

KC_red · 09-20-2000, 10:26 PM

I know I'm new, but somebody please post a reply- I know there has to be some opinion on this topic.

Start now. [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

Clint in Wichita · 09-20-2000, 10:30 PM

Are you a Duck?

U.C.L.A. is comin to town!..... Kill em.... [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by Joe Seahawk (edited 09-20-2000).]

KC_red · 09-20-2000, 10:49 PM

Not a Duck Fan- not originally from Oregon.

Grew up in the Midwest.

KC for six years (in the formative years)

No real college team preference in Football.

<BR>

**alanm** · 09-21-2000, 06:56 AM

OCF-

Welcome to the Planet.

My major fear is that Sunday was an aberration. It is what we fans have been screaming for. The coaching staff backed up their big noise about throwing against a stacked line.

We ran into a stacked line against the Colts and lost. We ran into a stacked line against the Titans and lost. Although, IMO, Schottenheimer lost that game single-handedly with his stinking, gutless Prevent Defense [may he burn Dante’s Circle dedicated to spineless jellyfish]. San Diego showed us a stacked line and we threw the ball downfield. The result speaks for itself.

What worries me is that we did that in Arrowhead. Mile High will not be as user-friendly as Arrowhead. Although stupid coaching decisions have made Arrowhead a far less friendly neighborhood of late. We must adapt to whatever the Broncos throw at us. Their weak spot is their Defense. We must throw if they stack the line and we must run roughshod over them if they show a base D. They will blitz a lot, so we need to be ready to throw a screen [preferably WITH blockers, Jimmy].

The evidence from Sunday was overwhelming. A career day for Grbac. A breakout game for Morris. A long, sustained drive that chewed up 9 minutes of clock. An Offensive showcase that Chiefs fans have seldom seen. Is our coaching staff truly so inept or stubborn that they cannot see the difference between attacking the enemy D and proving that we are tough?

Until the Chargers game, the answer had been a deafening yes.

xoxo~
gaz
concerned that his coaching staff will de-evolve again.<BR>

Raiderhater · 09-21-2000, 07:01 AM

Allow me to get a little Shakespearian here, but isnt that the question?

To be, or not to be. That is the question.

More maddening than the answer is the question.

Iron Chef · 09-21-2000, 09:30 AM

We will have to pass against Denver. Although they have quite a few sacks, believe it is because of the number of attemped throws against them. They have been in a few shoot outs. Denver gets it pass rush much like we did last year on the blitz.

Means Gonzales could be running free all day! If not means Morris or Alexander will be single covered by a soft playing veteran or undersized rookie cornerback.

Either way could be a big passing game for the chiefs. Think our D will slow Denver down, but they will put up some points, and we will have to respond.

shakesthecat · 09-21-2000, 09:35 AM

I agree, we are going to have to pass to win, however, we will come out second best, in an all out air war. Smith and McCaffrey, are quite a bit better than the Chargers offered. But we must come out balanced, if we fall behind 10-0 to the Broncs, it is going to be a lot to overcome.

09-21-2000, 09:43 AM

I'm a little concerned with an interview from gunther early in the week that talked about controling the clock and keeping denvers O off of the field....I agree in theory, but they have to mix it up with pass...or we'll all be p!$$ed on monday.

I hope he has the stones to pass on 1st down once in a while....and on 3rd and 15 would be nice too.

Robio9 · 09-21-2000, 09:45 AM

Of course, it remains to be seen what the Chiefs will do on offense in Denver. I for one am not totaly confident that last week was a preview of things to come. I hope it was, but I just have a hard time believing it with the way we played over the last 8 to 10 games.
We always beat up on the Chargers, no matter where there defense is ranked. Here's to treating Denver like San Diego though!

KC_red · 09-21-2000, 10:00 AM

Iowanian... I also spent about 4 years in Iowa at Iowa State. Didn't graduate there, but that is another story.

I echo all of your sentiments... I too am hoping that RUNther realizes that to be successful in this league there must be a balance. I have Sunday ticket and I am watching the successful teams- they pass and run.

Another thought, when was the last time a running back caught a pass over the middle and ran it for about a 20-30 yard gain. It seems to me that if Cloud were to have a role on Sunday in 3rd down situations this would be it.

With that said.. I like Moreau. When he gets the ball he just looks strong and fast.. not blazing speed, but fast enough.

Here's to the new Gunther. If he continues to play the run and pass we may have to start calling him Pass & RUNther.

Go CHIEFS ! <P>

scooter · 09-21-2000, 10:11 AM

The last few posters hit on it. We have to be balanced. I always look for a 60/40 split of pass/run. If we can successfully hit quick slants and at least attempt some deep balls that will keep the safetys honest, thus allowing running lanes.

I don't know if it's in the playbook but a play I would love to see is Cloud in the I, go in motion, then catch a quick slant. This would keep the LB's honest. We could run the same with Moreau, but run that play at least 5 times through the course of the game. The LB blitz would disappear.

09-21-2000, 10:16 AM

Chuck

You are obviously a Cloud supporter. What do you see in this guy that I am obviously missing?

scooter · 09-21-2000, 10:21 AM

Yes I am a Cloud backer, though I have said that Moreau needs to get more time since he's performing the best.

What I see is a Denver D that traditionally has problems with small, quick, shifty backs, (G. Hill, N. Kaufman) but eats up big backs.

Cloud is a small, shifty back (I think quick applies to, others don't). I think if we can get him the ball, in space, and let him use some moves against the Denver LB's he'll have a big day. I like Moreau's power and size but I don't think he has the moves to burn the Denver LB's one on one. If we can get their LB's on their heels, then EG can burn them with the pass.

KC_red · 09-21-2000, 10:31 AM

I would not classify myself as a Cloud supporter, but more of a " we drafted this guy because we must have seen something in him, so let's find a role that he can be successful in so that he can contribute to this team... kind of supporter." I have seen in the past where we did not give our rookies the chance to prove us wrong and we never knew if they were worth the pick we spent on them.

I do not know if Cloud will be good. I just think that he should get a few attempts in situations that he can be succesful in. The few times that his number has been called he had to run right around Grunny, and he did OK. ...But, I think Cloud needs to be used in roles that suit him. I don't know, I am not the expert, but if he can catch the ball, then maybe we ought to try throwing it to him and see what he can do against the secondary.

I am still undecided on Cloud because I have not seen him enough.

However, as I have stated in my previous post, I like Moreau. The reason I like Moreau is because he fits what RUNther is trying to do with his running backs-- strong and able to run inside the tackles and then shake and bake to get a few more. I think that is Frank's strength, I do not think it is Cloud's.

Has anyone else noticed that we are the worst team in the leage at Sweep plays? We always pitch the ball out wide so the entire defense can see where we are going, they cut off the angle and we get stuffed for about 3-5 yards. Why don't we just shorten the pitch or handoff to the back and let him run it to the outside. I think the reason we are not successful is because we are not disguising the sweep, we are telegraphing it.

I never played orgainzed football, and I am certainly no Junior Seau or Donnie Edwards, but about a 1/2 second into our sweep, I am off the couch and into our backfield making the tackle... I don't think it is our personell, I think that it is the design of the play.

What do you think?

09-20-2000, 10:26 PM	#2
KC_red Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Houston, TX, us Casino cash: $10004900	I know I'm new, but somebody please post a reply- I know there has to be some opinion on this topic. Start now. [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
Posts: 267

09-20-2000, 10:30 PM	#3
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	Are you a Duck? U.C.L.A. is comin to town!..... Kill em.... [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [This message has been edited by Joe Seahawk (edited 09-20-2000).]
Posts: 4,458

09-20-2000, 10:49 PM	#4
KC_red Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Houston, TX, us Casino cash: $10004900	Not a Duck Fan- not originally from Oregon. Grew up in the Midwest. KC for six years (in the formative years) No real college team preference in Football. <BR>
Posts: 267

09-21-2000, 06:56 AM	#5
alanm Feeling Victorian Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Nebraska/Wyoming/Colorado Casino cash: $1466436	OCF- Welcome to the Planet. My major fear is that Sunday was an aberration. It is what we fans have been screaming for. The coaching staff backed up their big noise about throwing against a stacked line. We ran into a stacked line against the Colts and lost. We ran into a stacked line against the Titans and lost. Although, IMO, Schottenheimer lost that game single-handedly with his stinking, gutless Prevent Defense [may he burn Dante’s Circle dedicated to spineless jellyfish]. San Diego showed us a stacked line and we threw the ball downfield. The result speaks for itself. What worries me is that we did that in Arrowhead. Mile High will not be as user-friendly as Arrowhead. Although stupid coaching decisions have made Arrowhead a far less friendly neighborhood of late. We must adapt to whatever the Broncos throw at us. Their weak spot is their Defense. We must throw if they stack the line and we must run roughshod over them if they show a base D. They will blitz a lot, so we need to be ready to throw a screen [preferably WITH blockers, Jimmy]. The evidence from Sunday was overwhelming. A career day for Grbac. A breakout game for Morris. A long, sustained drive that chewed up 9 minutes of clock. An Offensive showcase that Chiefs fans have seldom seen. Is our coaching staff truly so inept or stubborn that they cannot see the difference between attacking the enemy D and proving that we are tough? Until the Chargers game, the answer had been a deafening yes. xoxo~ gaz concerned that his coaching staff will de-evolve again.<BR>
Posts: 33,661

09-21-2000, 07:01 AM	#6
Raiderhater **** the Raiders Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: A Webb of chaos Casino cash: $1842021	Allow me to get a little Shakespearian here, but isnt that the question? To be, or not to be. That is the question. More maddening than the answer is the question.
Posts: 28,306

09-20-2000, 05:04 PM
Die Hard Chief Fan Guest Casino cash: $	First time poster, long time voyeur - about 2 years now (including Star BB [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ) To the point. I am hoping that Gunther and company are not going to be stubborn come Sunday at Denver. What are the chances that last Sunday the staff knew that the home fans would have booed the whole game if they had gone with the run, run, run plan that they wanted, and passed the ball just to keep the peace and woops- it worked. This Sunday away from the confines of Arrowhead will they revert to the run? Just to prove to us all that they are right and we are wrong. KC runs the ball to set up the pass you know. Gunther to Grunny "Here it comes Grunny - don't turn to far right or left - cause it could go right up your A$$ !! " What do you all think? I hope that they learn a lesson from their 'mistake' against The Chargers, and hoist the new KC Passing War Flag, that opens up the KC Smashmouth running game- featuring Frank Moreau and T-REX.
Posts: n/a

09-21-2000, 09:30 AM	#7
Iron Chef Starter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Georgia Casino cash: $7614981	We will have to pass against Denver. Although they have quite a few sacks, believe it is because of the number of attemped throws against them. They have been in a few shoot outs. Denver gets it pass rush much like we did last year on the blitz. Means Gonzales could be running free all day! If not means Morris or Alexander will be single covered by a soft playing veteran or undersized rookie cornerback. Either way could be a big passing game for the chiefs. Think our D will slow Denver down, but they will put up some points, and we will have to respond.
Posts: 418

09-21-2000, 09:35 AM	#8
shakesthecat Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: IA Casino cash: $4043833	I agree, we are going to have to pass to win, however, we will come out second best, in an all out air war. Smith and McCaffrey, are quite a bit better than the Chargers offered. But we must come out balanced, if we fall behind 10-0 to the Broncs, it is going to be a lot to overcome.
Posts: 3,354

09-21-2000, 09:43 AM	#9
Mark M [BornChiefs] Guest Casino cash: $	I'm a little concerned with an interview from gunther early in the week that talked about controling the clock and keeping denvers O off of the field....I agree in theory, but they have to mix it up with pass...or we'll all be p!$$ed on monday. I hope he has the stones to pass on 1st down once in a while....and on 3rd and 15 would be nice too.
Posts: n/a

09-21-2000, 09:45 AM	#10
Robio9 Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Queen Creek, AZ Casino cash: $2313152	Of course, it remains to be seen what the Chiefs will do on offense in Denver. I for one am not totaly confident that last week was a preview of things to come. I hope it was, but I just have a hard time believing it with the way we played over the last 8 to 10 games. We always beat up on the Chargers, no matter where there defense is ranked. Here's to treating Denver like San Diego though!
Posts: 197

09-21-2000, 10:00 AM	#11
KC_red Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Houston, TX, us Casino cash: $10004900	Iowanian... I also spent about 4 years in Iowa at Iowa State. Didn't graduate there, but that is another story. I echo all of your sentiments... I too am hoping that RUNther realizes that to be successful in this league there must be a balance. I have Sunday ticket and I am watching the successful teams- they pass and run. Another thought, when was the last time a running back caught a pass over the middle and ran it for about a 20-30 yard gain. It seems to me that if Cloud were to have a role on Sunday in 3rd down situations this would be it. With that said.. I like Moreau. When he gets the ball he just looks strong and fast.. not blazing speed, but fast enough. Here's to the new Gunther. If he continues to play the run and pass we may have to start calling him Pass & RUNther. Go CHIEFS ! <P>
Posts: 267

09-21-2000, 10:11 AM	#12
scooter Starter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $9994900	The last few posters hit on it. We have to be balanced. I always look for a 60/40 split of pass/run. If we can successfully hit quick slants and at least attempt some deep balls that will keep the safetys honest, thus allowing running lanes. I don't know if it's in the playbook but a play I would love to see is Cloud in the I, go in motion, then catch a quick slant. This would keep the LB's honest. We could run the same with Moreau, but run that play at least 5 times through the course of the game. The LB blitz would disappear.
Posts: 472

09-21-2000, 10:16 AM	#13
Dr. Red Guest Casino cash: $	Chuck You are obviously a Cloud supporter. What do you see in this guy that I am obviously missing?
Posts: n/a

09-21-2000, 10:21 AM	#14
scooter Starter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $9994900	Yes I am a Cloud backer, though I have said that Moreau needs to get more time since he's performing the best. What I see is a Denver D that traditionally has problems with small, quick, shifty backs, (G. Hill, N. Kaufman) but eats up big backs. Cloud is a small, shifty back (I think quick applies to, others don't). I think if we can get him the ball, in space, and let him use some moves against the Denver LB's he'll have a big day. I like Moreau's power and size but I don't think he has the moves to burn the Denver LB's one on one. If we can get their LB's on their heels, then EG can burn them with the pass.
Posts: 472

09-21-2000, 10:31 AM	#15
KC_red Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Houston, TX, us Casino cash: $10004900	I would not classify myself as a Cloud supporter, but more of a " we drafted this guy because we must have seen something in him, so let's find a role that he can be successful in so that he can contribute to this team... kind of supporter." I have seen in the past where we did not give our rookies the chance to prove us wrong and we never knew if they were worth the pick we spent on them. I do not know if Cloud will be good. I just think that he should get a few attempts in situations that he can be succesful in. The few times that his number has been called he had to run right around Grunny, and he did OK. ...But, I think Cloud needs to be used in roles that suit him. I don't know, I am not the expert, but if he can catch the ball, then maybe we ought to try throwing it to him and see what he can do against the secondary. I am still undecided on Cloud because I have not seen him enough. However, as I have stated in my previous post, I like Moreau. The reason I like Moreau is because he fits what RUNther is trying to do with his running backs-- strong and able to run inside the tackles and then shake and bake to get a few more. I think that is Frank's strength, I do not think it is Cloud's. Has anyone else noticed that we are the worst team in the leage at Sweep plays? We always pitch the ball out wide so the entire defense can see where we are going, they cut off the angle and we get stuffed for about 3-5 yards. Why don't we just shorten the pitch or handoff to the back and let him run it to the outside. I think the reason we are not successful is because we are not disguising the sweep, we are telegraphing it. I never played orgainzed football, and I am certainly no Junior Seau or Donnie Edwards, but about a 1/2 second into our sweep, I am off the couch and into our backfield making the tackle... I don't think it is our personell, I think that it is the design of the play. What do you think?
Posts: 267