HC not the issue...

Luzap · 01-03-2006, 12:15 AM

Head Coach is not the issue.
What is far more important IMO, is who our coordinators will be. Almost any of the names being mentioned can run a football team. They can communicate and motivate players. The question is, will they be willing to run/learn offensive and defensive systems they're not familiar with?

Offense...
If Saunders is not our HC, he will be gone. Will the new HC keep our same system? If so, who do we bring in as our OC? I've heard it mentioned that we could promote Terry Shea (QB Coach), but Saunders will probably take him with him. If we don't keep our current offensive scheme, can we really expect Roaf to stick around? We need to be asking ourselves what OCs might be available that understand our system, and which HCs would be willing to hire them (instead of bringing their own system guys). This might be a good argument for bringing in a defensive minded HC whose closest coaching pupils are on the defensive side of the ball. Is this Carl's strategy?

Defense...
Will the new HC keep Gun? Whether you like Cunningham or not (and personally I do), do we really want to go to a new D scheme next year? It takes at least a year for players to really 'buy into' and understand a scheme. I believe right now we're close to having a very good D. Taking the good crop of new defensive talent we infused this year and asking them to learn a 2nd new scheme in as many years doesn't sound to me like a recipe for a championship defense.

Overall...
In light of the above, Herm Edwards might be the best choice. He is defensive minded, but 'his' coaches are also locked up in New York and, unless their new HC really didn't want them, probably wouldn't come with him. He could take the reins here with the current coordinators in place, give Gun another year to get the job done as well as giving our O another run for the Brass Ring.
Greg Williams might also be in the same situation as I don't think Washington (Snyder) will let him take his assistants with him (assuming he even lets him go).

It's all speculation, but I think these issues are probably weighing on Carl's mind. He has a good enough relationship with Herm to talk him into a situation like this, and Herm trusts Carl enough to know that he'll get a chance to bring in his own people if next year doesn't work out.

Regardless, I don't believe that we'll see scheme changes on the offense and we may not see them on the defense. These two issues would be my biggest concern in the HC lottery.

Luz
just the way i see it...

Herzig · 01-03-2006, 12:20 AM

Luz(you post about as much as I do)..

I agree with you....Herm or Saunders should coach. I don't want to give up anything higher than a 4th for Herm tho...

Luzap · 01-03-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herzig

Luz(you post about as much as I do)..

I agree with you....Herm or Saunders should coach. I don't want to give up anything higher than a 4th for Herm tho...

I agree about the picks... but I really don't want to change offensive schemes right now and I'm not sure which HC prospects would buy into that.

Luz
who would leave our O intact???...

Idahored · 01-03-2006, 09:49 AM

Luzap,

Right on as always. These are the same things that I have been thinking. This team is very close to being very good and I would like to keep the continuity on both offense and defense. The players we currently have are fitted for this type of offense and defense. We just need a few tweeks on defense and we could be in play for a superbowl.

I personally like the way our defense came around the end of the year. I think we need help on the d-line, either at DT or DE or both. We need more pressure from the front four.

I also think that if we change offensive systems that Roaf will go. And we know how well the offense performs without him.

Al Saunders is my first choice and he deserves the opportunity.

A defensive minded coach who will leave the offense alone is my second choice. Herm would be my number one there. His style is like Vermiels and I would love that same type of head coach.

**Bob Dole** · 01-03-2006, 09:50 AM

Given unforseen retirements/departures, Bob Dole can't understand why we would even think about abandoning our current offensive "system". We've clearly got the personnel to run it properly...

Cormac · 01-03-2006, 10:39 AM

I think it's important we keep the O scheme too. I'd be happy with Solari, Shea or Norv Turner (?) being made our OC, with that in mind.

As for the D side of the ball, I think our D made improvements this year, but I consider Surtain/Warfield to be a top 5 CB tandem, and our results don't show that. I wouldn't mind if we change D scheme, although I usually hate that kind of disruption. Maybe somebody like Dom Capers could be useful in that capacity.

As for HC, I think Saunders is a logical choice, but I don't think he'll get it. Herm is a safe bet, but doesn't really do anything for me, and I don't want to have to waste draft picks! I like the potential of Ron Rivera, Tim Lewis and others, but for every Marvin Lewis there is a dozen Mike Mularkeys.

I have to admit, I'll really miss DV, but I am not sure he would have been able to rebuild this time beyond Roaf, Shields, Holmes, Richardson, Green whether they retire this year or 2 more down the road.

unlurking · 01-03-2006, 11:20 AM

I've been pretty anti-AS in regards to him taking over, but I'm starting to waffle on that stance. Promoting a member of our current staff to OC under AS I think would almost guarantee our offense continues on the same path we are on. I really don't want to see a new offense in here.

I bitch constantly about AS getting to cute in the play calls, but it is hard to argue with the stats of this offense. It is also very difficult to get over the secret weapon pick by AS and the LJ pick by CP. AS does seem to have finally realized what's up however, and run LJ like mule. There may be some animosity between AS and CP, but if CP let him draft the secret weapon, AS obviously has some control (dumbest pick in a long time IMO).

And lastly, if Shields does retire, I think we need to invite him back as an asst. O-Line coach. Maybe promote Solari to OC and Eatman to O-Line coach. I remember watching Shields and Roaf interview after the Chargers game, and Shields seemed very articulate and intelligent (compared to most players). I'd also like to keep T-Rich in a FB coaching type of position when he goes. These guys are some of the best at their position, and seem very humble. I don't see either of them as TV crew Irvin types. I would like to see if they can continue to contribute by training our young prospects, much like T-Rich did with LJ this year.

**Lzen** · 01-03-2006, 11:29 AM

I agree with keeping the offensive and defensive sytems intact. That has been my concern, as well. Especially the offense.

This offense and the players that play in it are perfect for each other. Change offenses and you'll have some players that don't look so good.

I don't know how hard it is to change defenses. I suppose that would depend on the scheme. As I understand it, some defenses are much easier to learn. Gun's scheme is one of the most complex with all the different blitz packages.

In any case, it's gonna be a really interesting offseason for Chiefs fans.

htismaqe · 01-03-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlurking

I've been pretty anti-AS in regards to him taking over, but I'm starting to waffle on that stance. Promoting a member of our current staff to OC under AS I think would almost guarantee our offense continues on the same path we are on. I really don't want to see a new offense in here.

I bitch constantly about AS getting to cute in the play calls, but it is hard to argue with the stats of this offense. It is also very difficult to get over the secret weapon pick by AS and the LJ pick by CP. AS does seem to have finally realized what's up however, and run LJ like mule. There may be some animosity between AS and CP, but if CP let him draft the secret weapon, AS obviously has some control (dumbest pick in a long time IMO).

And lastly, if Shields does retire, I think we need to invite him back as an asst. O-Line coach. Maybe promote Solari to OC and Eatman to O-Line coach. I remember watching Shields and Roaf interview after the Chargers game, and Shields seemed very articulate and intelligent (compared to most players). I'd also like to keep T-Rich in a FB coaching type of position when he goes. These guys are some of the best at their position, and seem very humble. I don't see either of them as TV crew Irvin types. I would like to see if they can continue to contribute by training our young prospects, much like T-Rich did with LJ this year.

Shields has always been a very cerebral player. He'd make a great coach, IMO.

Mr. Laz · 01-03-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luzap

Head Coach is not the issue.

What is far more important IMO, is who our coordinators will be

well since our coordinators will be almost totally determined by the Head Coach, i guess the HC does matter.

**Lzen** · 01-03-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

well since our coordinators will be almost totally determined by the Head Coach, i guess the HC does matter.

Ha ha ha, that's a very good point.

FringeNC · 01-03-2006, 11:43 AM

I agree about the importance of coordinators. I have a bad feeling that CP is going to try to force GC on whoever we hire, in which case we are doomed for repeats of the last two years. Gregg Williams is the only guy I'd feel comfortable with, given that we have to keep Gun. We'd run Williams' system, Gun wouldn't have nearly the responsibility he has now.

Herzig · 01-03-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

I agree about the importance of coordinators. I have a bad feeling that CP is going to try to force GC on whoever we hire, in which case we are doomed for repeats of the last two years. Gregg Williams is the only guy I'd feel comfortable with, given that we have to keep Gun. We'd run Williams' system, Gun wouldn't have nearly the responsibility he has now.

I like Williams, but I just don't see him and Gun coexisting.

Luzap · 01-07-2006, 07:11 PM

It looks like the first part of this scenario is comming true. Herm Edwards will be our next HC.

I am confident that he will keep our offensive system in place ~ I believe this was one of Carl's hiring criteria. Carl and Herm are close enough that they can be on the same page here.

I would be amazed, however, if: a) Al Saunders doesn't get an HC position somewhere, and b) if he doesn't take QB Coach Shea and/or OL Coach Solari with him. Who will be our OC then? This is the question that has me holding my breath (moreso than the HC question).

What will also be interesting is to discover who our defensive coordinator will be and what scheme we'll use. Contrary to what is being said, I think it is more Carl's decision than anyone's. If Carl told Herm to 'keep this thing in tact for one more year, then if it doesn't work you can bring in your defensive guys' ~ and if it was part of the hiring agreement ~ I think Herm would go along with it. He knows that ownership here is not going to pull the rug out from under him if other coach's coordinators don't perform.

Luz
thinking the most important decisions/announcements are yet to be made...

milkman · 01-07-2006, 07:26 PM

I had to look to be certain, but my guess is that James Saxon and Charlie Joiner would be likely candidates to leave with Al.

They both played for Al in SD.

01-03-2006, 12:15 AM
Luzap 9.89 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dallas, TX Casino cash: $10004900	HC not the issue... Head Coach is not the issue. What is far more important IMO, is who our coordinators will be. Almost any of the names being mentioned can run a football team. They can communicate and motivate players. The question is, will they be willing to run/learn offensive and defensive systems they're not familiar with? Offense... If Saunders is not our HC, he will be gone. Will the new HC keep our same system? If so, who do we bring in as our OC? I've heard it mentioned that we could promote Terry Shea (QB Coach), but Saunders will probably take him with him. If we don't keep our current offensive scheme, can we really expect Roaf to stick around? We need to be asking ourselves what OCs might be available that understand our system, and which HCs would be willing to hire them (instead of bringing their own system guys). This might be a good argument for bringing in a defensive minded HC whose closest coaching pupils are on the defensive side of the ball. Is this Carl's strategy? Defense... Will the new HC keep Gun? Whether you like Cunningham or not (and personally I do), do we really want to go to a new D scheme next year? It takes at least a year for players to really 'buy into' and understand a scheme. I believe right now we're close to having a very good D. Taking the good crop of new defensive talent we infused this year and asking them to learn a 2nd new scheme in as many years doesn't sound to me like a recipe for a championship defense. Overall... In light of the above, Herm Edwards might be the best choice. He is defensive minded, but 'his' coaches are also locked up in New York and, unless their new HC really didn't want them, probably wouldn't come with him. He could take the reins here with the current coordinators in place, give Gun another year to get the job done as well as giving our O another run for the Brass Ring. Greg Williams might also be in the same situation as I don't think Washington (Snyder) will let him take his assistants with him (assuming he even lets him go). It's all speculation, but I think these issues are probably weighing on Carl's mind. He has a good enough relationship with Herm to talk him into a situation like this, and Herm trusts Carl enough to know that he'll get a chance to bring in his own people if next year doesn't work out. Regardless, I don't believe that we'll see scheme changes on the offense and we may not see them on the defense. These two issues would be my biggest concern in the HC lottery. Luz just the way i see it...
Posts: 3,327

01-03-2006, 12:20 AM	#2
Herzig Wooooooo Pig Soooooiiiie!!! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Northwest Arkansas Casino cash: $9984900	Luz(you post about as much as I do).. I agree with you....Herm or Saunders should coach. I don't want to give up anything higher than a 4th for Herm tho... __________________
Posts: 2,554

01-03-2006, 09:49 AM	#4
Idahored Starter Join Date: Feb 2005 Casino cash: $10004900	Luzap, Right on as always. These are the same things that I have been thinking. This team is very close to being very good and I would like to keep the continuity on both offense and defense. The players we currently have are fitted for this type of offense and defense. We just need a few tweeks on defense and we could be in play for a superbowl. I personally like the way our defense came around the end of the year. I think we need help on the d-line, either at DT or DE or both. We need more pressure from the front four. I also think that if we change offensive systems that Roaf will go. And we know how well the offense performs without him. Al Saunders is my first choice and he deserves the opportunity. A defensive minded coach who will leave the offense alone is my second choice. Herm would be my number one there. His style is like Vermiels and I would love that same type of head coach.
Posts: 152

01-03-2006, 09:50 AM	#5
Bob Dole King Shit of **** Mountain Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texarkana, Texas Casino cash: $2204497	Given unforseen retirements/departures, Bob Dole can't understand why we would even think about abandoning our current offensive "system". We've clearly got the personnel to run it properly...
Posts: 48,732

01-03-2006, 10:39 AM	#6
Cormac Haley sceptic.... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: waiting it out....... Casino cash: $10004900	I think it's important we keep the O scheme too. I'd be happy with Solari, Shea or Norv Turner (?) being made our OC, with that in mind. As for the D side of the ball, I think our D made improvements this year, but I consider Surtain/Warfield to be a top 5 CB tandem, and our results don't show that. I wouldn't mind if we change D scheme, although I usually hate that kind of disruption. Maybe somebody like Dom Capers could be useful in that capacity. As for HC, I think Saunders is a logical choice, but I don't think he'll get it. Herm is a safe bet, but doesn't really do anything for me, and I don't want to have to waste draft picks! I like the potential of Ron Rivera, Tim Lewis and others, but for every Marvin Lewis there is a dozen Mike Mularkeys. I have to admit, I'll really miss DV, but I am not sure he would have been able to rebuild this time beyond Roaf, Shields, Holmes, Richardson, Green whether they retire this year or 2 more down the road.
Posts: 2,406

01-03-2006, 11:20 AM	#7
unlurking MVP Join Date: Aug 2003 Casino cash: $7737309	I've been pretty anti-AS in regards to him taking over, but I'm starting to waffle on that stance. Promoting a member of our current staff to OC under AS I think would almost guarantee our offense continues on the same path we are on. I really don't want to see a new offense in here. I bitch constantly about AS getting to cute in the play calls, but it is hard to argue with the stats of this offense. It is also very difficult to get over the secret weapon pick by AS and the LJ pick by CP. AS does seem to have finally realized what's up however, and run LJ like mule. There may be some animosity between AS and CP, but if CP let him draft the secret weapon, AS obviously has some control (dumbest pick in a long time IMO). And lastly, if Shields does retire, I think we need to invite him back as an asst. O-Line coach. Maybe promote Solari to OC and Eatman to O-Line coach. I remember watching Shields and Roaf interview after the Chargers game, and Shields seemed very articulate and intelligent (compared to most players). I'd also like to keep T-Rich in a FB coaching type of position when he goes. These guys are some of the best at their position, and seem very humble. I don't see either of them as TV crew Irvin types. I would like to see if they can continue to contribute by training our young prospects, much like T-Rich did with LJ this year.
Posts: 10,620

01-03-2006, 11:29 AM	#8
Lzen Supporter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Jan Quadrant Vincent 16 Casino cash: $1970692	I agree with keeping the offensive and defensive sytems intact. That has been my concern, as well. Especially the offense. This offense and the players that play in it are perfect for each other. Change offenses and you'll have some players that don't look so good. I don't know how hard it is to change defenses. I suppose that would depend on the scheme. As I understand it, some defenses are much easier to learn. Gun's scheme is one of the most complex with all the different blitz packages. In any case, it's gonna be a really interesting offseason for Chiefs fans. __________________ If at first you don't succeed ...skydiving is not for you.
Posts: 41,456

01-03-2006, 11:43 AM	#12
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $1436014	I agree about the importance of coordinators. I have a bad feeling that CP is going to try to force GC on whoever we hire, in which case we are doomed for repeats of the last two years. Gregg Williams is the only guy I'd feel comfortable with, given that we have to keep Gun. We'd run Williams' system, Gun wouldn't have nearly the responsibility he has now.
Posts: 10,173

01-07-2006, 07:11 PM	#14
Luzap 9.89 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dallas, TX Casino cash: $10004900	Thought I'd bring this back up... It looks like the first part of this scenario is comming true. Herm Edwards will be our next HC. I am confident that he will keep our offensive system in place ~ I believe this was one of Carl's hiring criteria. Carl and Herm are close enough that they can be on the same page here. I would be amazed, however, if: a) Al Saunders doesn't get an HC position somewhere, and b) if he doesn't take QB Coach Shea and/or OL Coach Solari with him. Who will be our OC then? This is the question that has me holding my breath (moreso than the HC question). What will also be interesting is to discover who our defensive coordinator will be and what scheme we'll use. Contrary to what is being said, I think it is more Carl's decision than anyone's. If Carl told Herm to 'keep this thing in tact for one more year, then if it doesn't work you can bring in your defensive guys' ~ and if it was part of the hiring agreement ~ I think Herm would go along with it. He knows that ownership here is not going to pull the rug out from under him if other coach's coordinators don't perform. Luz thinking the most important decisions/announcements are yet to be made...
Posts: 3,327

01-07-2006, 07:26 PM	#15
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	I had to look to be certain, but my guess is that James Saxon and Charlie Joiner would be likely candidates to leave with Al. They both played for Al in SD. __________________
Posts: 70,769