National Baseball Hall of Fame class of 2015

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Smoltz first ballot. GTFO

Congrats, Craig Biggio!!

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Pedro and Randy, no surprise

Bagwell snubbed again
Piazza snubbed

[gblowfish]

They weren't going to do two Astros on one ballot. And Bagwell had some suspicion on Roids, didn't he?

[TEX]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

They weren't going to do two Astros on one ballot. And Bagwell had some suspicion on Roids, didn't he?

Yes & No. No real connection at all. None of the players who "ratted" out others and none of the FBI investigations ever said anything about it. Many argue that it's because he did not take them that he could not get over shoulder injury that ended his career...

Below is an excerpt from an ESPN Article

Bagwell has never been linked to performance-enhancers beyond hearsay and innuendo, yet he lives under the same cloud of suspicion as players who have failed drug tests, lied before Congress or admitted to steroid use.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof11/...ory?id=5963276

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Yes. Suspicions surround Bagwell. With good reason, but he was always right there with Frank Thomas who is absolved of any suspicion because he was tall and fat.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Rudy lost the toss

Yes. Suspicions surround Bagwell. With good reason, but he was always right there with Frank Thomas who is absolved of any suspicion because he was tall and fat.

Seems odd to me that there isn't there any suspicion around Randy Johnson (at least enough for the voters to knock him down like they do with Bagwell/Piazza). The guy peaked in his mid 30s and was a monster into his 40s.

[KC_Connection]

All the guys that made it in were deserving (even though there should have been a lot more), but I haven't given a shit about the baseball HOF since they kept Bonds/Clemens out the first time. Such a ridiculous process.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Biggio is an absolutely terrible selection. Fifteen percent better than average offensively over the course of his career, and all of a sudden put up his two highest HR seasons of his career in his age 39 and 40 seasons, but he's clean.

Horseshit.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Biggio is an absolutely terrible selection. Fifteen percent better than average offensively over the course of his career, and all of a sudden put up his two highest HR seasons of his career in his age 39 and 40 seasons, but he's clean.

Horseshit.

Biggio did have a higher career WAR than Alomar, so I think a case can certainly be made for him. Why he gets in above all those other better HOF caliber players, though, I have no idea.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Biggio is an absolutely terrible selection. Fifteen percent better than average offensively over the course of his career, and all of a sudden put up his two highest HR seasons of his career in his age 39 and 40 seasons, but he's clean.

Horseshit.

It's kind of funny/ironic that Biggio makes it in with no real trouble while several more deserving players don't because of steroids implications - when some of those players have nothing to tie them to steroids other than the era/rumors.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Biggio is an absolutely terrible selection. Fifteen percent better than average offensively over the course of his career, and all of a sudden put up his two highest HR seasons of his career in his age 39 and 40 seasons, but he's clean.

Horseshit.

I didn't realize how stupid you were until I read this. IF those arent HOF numbers for a 2nd Baseman - I don't know what are...

G 2,850
BA .281
OBP .363 .
OPS+ 112
H 3,060
2B 668
HR 291
TB 4,711
RBI 1,175
R 1,844
SB 414
WAR 65.1

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by TEX

I didn't realize how stupid you were until I read this. IF those arent HOF numbers for a 2nd Baseman - I don't know what are...

G 2,850
BA .281
OBP .363 .
OPS+ 112
H 3,060
2B 668
HR 291
TB 4,711
RBI 1,175
R 1,844
SB 414
WAR 65.1

The point is that it is intellectually dishonest to vote Biggio in while NOT voting in other guys because of steroids. Considering Biggio has one of the HUGEST indicators of steroid use on his record, and no one is talking about it.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

The point is that it is intellectually dishonest to vote Biggio in while NOT voting in other guys because of steroids. Considering Biggio has one of the HUGEST indicators of steroid use on his record, and no one is talking about it.

"Highest indicators of steroid use" - oh do tell...Please show me the evidence, even if its speculative in nature, where he is linked to using, much less like the others. I know this man. Dude is CLEAN in everything he does. One of the GOOD guys, who actually played by the rules. He's above idiots like you who want to taint his accomplishments.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by TEX

"Highest indicators of steroid use" - oh do tell...Please show me the evidence, even if its speculative in nature, where he is linked to using, much less like the others. I know this man. Dude is CLEAN in everything he does. One of the GOOD guys, who actually played by the rules. He's above idiots like you who want to taint his accomplishments.

Dude, large spikes in HR production in the mid-to-late 30s ARE a big indicator of steroid use.

That's just as much of an indicator as anything "tied" to Bagwell.

That's the whole point. Bagwell and Piazza have these rumors circulating but completely unfounded that seem to be hammering their Hall candidacy despite no actual proof. But Biggio has just as big an indicator in his background as they do, yet I've never once seen it mentioned.

It's intellectually dishonest to not vote for Bagwell or Piazza because you think there are indications they did roids, and just look past it with Biggio.

If their prime, who would have taken Biggio over either of those players? Hell, even through their age 36 seasons, who would have taken Biggio over Bagwell?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by TEX

I didn't realize how stupid you were until I read this. IF those arent HOF numbers for a 2nd Baseman - I don't know what are...

G 2,850
BA .281
OBP .363 .
OPS+ 112
H 3,060
2B 668
HR 291
TB 4,711
RBI 1,175
R 1,844
SB 414
WAR 65.1

He accumulated some nice raw counting numbers because he stayed around far past his prime and played in a Cracker Jack box. Oddly, he hit almost 25% of his career homeruns after he was 37 years old. In spite of that, he was never more than a very good offensive player and he was vastly outpaced by other 2B contemporaries, including Alomar.

Again, he was 15% above league average for his career offensively. Hall of the Very Good? Sure. But he is not a HOF player. It's almost like there aren't reams of statistical evidence that indicate when a player's prime is and how as soon as PED testing went into effect, 37 year olds setting career highs in homers disappeared overnight. But I'm sure it's all just a coinkydink.

Awesome job using anachronistic counting stats, though. Have fun working for the worst organization in baseball