All Star Snubs...

Carlota69 · 07-01-2007, 01:26 PM

Which Snub disgusts you the most?

Mine is Orlando Cabrera--SS--LA Angels.

Not only is he not going to start the AS Game, but he may not even be there. His numbers at the plate are equal if not better than Jeters'.

OC--Avg...338 5 HR OBP .835 RBI 48
Jeter Avg...335 5 HR OBP .408 RBI 38

Fielding

OC --.998 4 errors (#1 in the league)

Jeter--.966 12 errors

I'm so irritated by the voting process and all these talking heads saying that Jeter should be the starter...

**BigMeatballDave** · 07-01-2007, 01:27 PM

****ing popularity contests!

CoMoChief · 07-01-2007, 01:27 PM

Every all star game in virtually any sport is a popularity contest.

chagrin · 07-01-2007, 01:32 PM

Good call on the stats, Carlota - When was the last year Jeter actually deserved his spot I wonder?

Carlota69 · 07-01-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chagrin

Good call on the stats, Carlota - When was the last year Jeter actually deserved his spot I wonder?

Looks like 2002 was his last year of "greatness"...I guess people could argue 2003--but this year--he's pretty bad in the field and decent at the plate, but certainly not All-Star worthy.

Eleazar · 07-01-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlota69

Looks like 2002 was his last year of "greatness"...I guess people could argue 2003--but this year--he's pretty bad in the field and decent at the plate, but certainly not All-Star worthy.

Jeter is bad in the field? He won the gold glove at shortstop each of the last 3 seasons.

**alnorth** · 07-01-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

Jeter is bad in the field? He won the gold glove at shortstop each of the last 3 seasons.

Which speaks to the (lack of) intelligence for the gold glove voters.

Statistically, Derek Jeter is one of the *WORST* everyday defensive shortstops in modern baseball history, near dead-last on most of the fielding statistics that have been developed in recent years.

Jeter has fewer errors than many in most years because his range sucks so bad, that he doesnt get to hardly anything that an average shortstop should get to. He figuratively stands still as a statue, and cleanly fields stuff hit right at him.

Eleazar · 07-01-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Which speaks to the (lack of) intelligence for the gold glove voters.

The unintelligent gold glove voters are the managers and coaches. And they aren't allowed to vote for their own players.

**alnorth** · 07-01-2007, 03:45 PM

Shortstops by Zone Rating

Zone rating: The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.

Edit: this definition from ESPN isnt 100% accurate. If a great shortstop fields a ball thats hit outside of his "zone", he is rewarded with an out, but if he misses a ball hit outside his "zone", he is not punished in the stat, because he wasnt expected to get to the ball anyway. Therefore, players with great range are rewarded with more putouts that dont count against them if missed.

Omar Vizquel, .908
Jose Reyes, .907
Bobby Crosby, .871
Adam Everett, .870
Rafael Furcal, .870
Khalil Greene, .862
Troy Tulowitzki, .859
Miguel Tejada, .858
Jason Bartlett, .852
Orlando Cabrera, .846
Alex Gonzalez, .839
Tony Pena Jr., .838
Juan Uribe, .837
Jack Wilson, .828
Julio Lugo, .824
Stephen Drew, .822
Jimmy Rollins, .819
Yuniesky Betancourt, .816
Carlos Guillen, .808
J.J. Hardy, .808
Cesar Izturis, .806
Edgar Renteria, .795
Jhonny Peralta, .786
Michael Young, .784
Brendan Harris, .778
Hanley Ramirez, .773
Derek Jeter, .756

So, in other words, of all the balls hit into an average shortstop's "Zone" that he should be reasonably expected to get to, the league leader Omar Vizquel of the Giants converts over 90% into outs, our own Tony Pena Jr, converts about 84%, and all-world wonder defensive guru Derek Jeter records a pitiful 75% into outs.

This isnt a one year mid-season outlier, Derek Jeter sucks every damned year, but the old-school baseball men say "to heck with all those new-fangled statistics, I see a good shortstop!"

The reason why Errors is not a great stat, is because a Jeter with crappy range may not get an error for not getting to a ball, because to the naked eye, it looks like a clean hit. A great shortstop that gets to a ball that most shortstops wouldnt have laid a glove on, but fails to make the play, may also be punished with an error because to the naked eye, it looked bad, but it usually would have gotten out of the infield with a Jeter type of SS.

Amnorix · 07-02-2007, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

Jeter is bad in the field? He won the gold glove at shortstop each of the last 3 seasons.

That, too, is a joke.

**HemiEd** · 07-02-2007, 07:34 AM

NEW YORK

Miles · 07-01-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chagrin

Good call on the stats, Carlota - When was the last year Jeter actually deserved his spot I wonder?

He posted pretty impressive offensive stats last season and it was probably the best year of his career a the plate. He is off to a pretty damn good start this season by not quite the pace as last. Guillen should probably be starting over him though.

bdeg · 07-01-2007, 01:40 PM

Cabrera's OBP seems a little off...

*it's 379

Carlota69 · 07-01-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdeg

Cabrera's OBP seems a little off...

*it's 379

Your right...The Angels Gameday stats are Dyslexic...380 OBP--

Valiant · 07-01-2007, 02:26 PM

Thats why I think fans and sports announcers should not be able to vote period.. They are biased and ignorant most of the time.. Most of the East/West Coast bias never even looks the other way let alone the Midwest..

It should basically go over who has the best stats period for offensive players.. Defense gets a little more leeway (say for pitchers who don't get wins because their offense sucks)

07-01-2007, 01:26 PM	Topic Starter
Carlota69 MVP Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Las Vegas Casino cash: $9925282	All Star Snubs... Which Snub disgusts you the most? Mine is Orlando Cabrera--SS--LA Angels. Not only is he not going to start the AS Game, but he may not even be there. His numbers at the plate are equal if not better than Jeters'. OC--Avg...338 5 HR OBP .835 RBI 48 Jeter Avg...335 5 HR OBP .408 RBI 38 Fielding OC --.998 4 errors (#1 in the league) Jeter--.966 12 errors I'm so irritated by the voting process and all these talking heads saying that Jeter should be the starter...
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07-01-2007, 01:27 PM	#2
BigMeatballDave GBM 8-12-15 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dayton, Oh. Casino cash: $10052154	****ing popularity contests! __________________ 2015 Adopt-a-Chief: Tamba Hali
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07-01-2007, 01:27 PM	#3
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $8032254	Every all star game in virtually any sport is a popularity contest. __________________
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07-01-2007, 01:32 PM	#4
chagrin Giggitty! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missoula, Mt Casino cash: $9914905	Good call on the stats, Carlota - When was the last year Jeter actually deserved his spot I wonder? __________________ Times have changed, so have I, things are better now.
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07-01-2007, 03:45 PM	#9
alnorth . Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $57166239	Shortstops by Zone Rating Zone rating: The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc. Edit: this definition from ESPN isnt 100% accurate. If a great shortstop fields a ball thats hit outside of his "zone", he is rewarded with an out, but if he misses a ball hit outside his "zone", he is not punished in the stat, because he wasnt expected to get to the ball anyway. Therefore, players with great range are rewarded with more putouts that dont count against them if missed. Omar Vizquel, .908 Jose Reyes, .907 Bobby Crosby, .871 Adam Everett, .870 Rafael Furcal, .870 Khalil Greene, .862 Troy Tulowitzki, .859 Miguel Tejada, .858 Jason Bartlett, .852 Orlando Cabrera, .846 Alex Gonzalez, .839 Tony Pena Jr., .838 Juan Uribe, .837 Jack Wilson, .828 Julio Lugo, .824 Stephen Drew, .822 Jimmy Rollins, .819 Yuniesky Betancourt, .816 Carlos Guillen, .808 J.J. Hardy, .808 Cesar Izturis, .806 Edgar Renteria, .795 Jhonny Peralta, .786 Michael Young, .784 Brendan Harris, .778 Hanley Ramirez, .773 Derek Jeter, .756 So, in other words, of all the balls hit into an average shortstop's "Zone" that he should be reasonably expected to get to, the league leader Omar Vizquel of the Giants converts over 90% into outs, our own Tony Pena Jr, converts about 84%, and all-world wonder defensive guru Derek Jeter records a pitiful 75% into outs. This isnt a one year mid-season outlier, Derek Jeter sucks every damned year, but the old-school baseball men say "to heck with all those new-fangled statistics, I see a good shortstop!" The reason why Errors is not a great stat, is because a Jeter with crappy range may not get an error for not getting to a ball, because to the naked eye, it looks like a clean hit. A great shortstop that gets to a ball that most shortstops wouldnt have laid a glove on, but fails to make the play, may also be punished with an error because to the naked eye, it looked bad, but it usually would have gotten out of the infield with a Jeter type of SS. __________________ how many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb? HOW MANY?! none they just sit in the dark and cry Last edited by alnorth; 07-01-2007 at 03:57 PM..
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07-02-2007, 07:34 AM	#11
HemiEd Supporter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ozarks Casino cash: $3010564	NEW YORK
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07-01-2007, 01:40 PM	#13
bdeg Veteran Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: iowa Casino cash: $10004900	Cabrera's OBP seems a little off... *it's 379
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07-01-2007, 02:26 PM	#15
Valiant Valiant 'The Thread Killer' Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $6252380	Thats why I think fans and sports announcers should not be able to vote period.. They are biased and ignorant most of the time.. Most of the East/West Coast bias never even looks the other way let alone the Midwest.. It should basically go over who has the best stats period for offensive players.. Defense gets a little more leeway (say for pitchers who don't get wins because their offense sucks)
Posts: 18,367