Is the "spread" the new 3-4?

**AustinChief** · 02-18-2009, 02:43 PM

I personally like the 3-4 for ONE very important reason... once you have found your NT the rest of your defense is much easier to find talent for than a 4-3 is.

With so many colleges running the spread and althetes like Tebow, McCoy and Bradford becoming the norm... will the NFL adjust to a hybrid (running a PURE spread wouldn't work) offense that relies heavily on the spread?

It seems to me that it carries the same advantage that the 3-4 does... easier to find talent for it.

Again, I am talking more of a pistol/wildcat/spread-flex with enough traditional under-center formations to keep it interesting.

Let's try to think of what's NEXT here and not just jump into the "never worked in the past" mode... the people that think like that are always a step behind the curve.

Sully · 02-18-2009, 02:44 PM

I don't believe the spread will ever work consistently as a stand-alone offense in the NFL.

However, if I'm wrong....

The teams that run a 3-4, and can slip into a 3-3 stack, are going to be miles ahead in defending it.

Brock · 02-18-2009, 02:45 PM

I think if we learned anything from this last season it is that the spread works fine between the 20s. From the goalline, not so much.

Hootie · 02-18-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

I think if we learned anything from this last season it is that the spread works fine between the 20s. From the goalline, not so much.

True.

We were incapable of running a pro style offense last season.

Was it Tyler Thigpen?

Was it the offensive line?

That's something for the coaching staff to figure out.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-18-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

True.

We were incapable of running a pro style offense last season.

Was it Tyler Thigpen?

Was it the offensive line?

That's something for the coaching staff to figure out.

Your first question is your answer.
Thigpen can't read a defense. The O-line performed better in the traditional set than it did under the spread, even when we were getting the ball out ASAP.

**AustinChief** · 02-18-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Your first question is your answer.
Thigpen can't read a defense. The O-line performed better in the traditional set than it did under the spread, even when we were getting the ball out ASAP.

I don't think the o-line performed well at all this year. We have a massively subpar line especially when it comes to run blocking. It is hard to NOT blame them for our running woes as opposed to just saying "can't run from the spread" over and over.

I agree that if you are 90%+ spread, you limit yourself severely... but I think a team with a SOLID O-line could easily run an 80/20 offense and be successful

Hootie · 02-18-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Your first question is your answer.
Thigpen can't read a defense. The O-line performed better in the traditional set than it did under the spread, even when we were getting the ball out ASAP.

Yikes dude!

I don't know about that...

I remember SEVERAL times we'd get the ball 1st and Goal at the 1 and I'd tell my friends (who didn't give a shit) that we wouldn't score because we are TERRIBLE inside the 5...

LJ isn't the best goal to go back in the league...never was, never will be...but he scored 20+ TD's a couple of seasons in a row so he knows how to find the end zone...but our line wasn't capable of opening up ANY holes...

He only averaged what he did because of the spread...how many long runs did LJ have last year?

I thought his best game of the season was against Oakland when he didn't really have any long runs, but he consistently fought for yards and gained 3+ at a time...

I'd rather take 3, 3, 3, 4, 3, 5, 3, 2, 3, 3, 5, 5 then 15, 1, 0, 0, -2, 25, 0, 1, 2, 1, 2, 0, 20...

I thought Thigpen's ability to run really kept the opposing DE's in check and that allowed our offensive line to look representable even though Niswanger/Jones/Smith/Taylor/McIntosh have no business being in the starting lineup.

I would like to see the Chiefs go QB #3...

But I won't call it the end of the world if we see what Thigpen has in 2009...

Worst case scenario?

He flops and we get another top 5 pick and we go QB in 2010...

I don't see another 2 win season in the horizon...we no longer have an inept coach...I think Haley will at least know how to finish games...if we had a coach like that last year we would have won 6 games.

The fact Gailey drew up an offense that allowed the Chiefs to compete last year was amazing to me...our defense had 10 sacks...10 friggin' sacks! We should have been the Lions last year...but somehow we competed week in and week out because of the spread offense.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-18-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

Yikes dude!

I don't know about that...

I remember SEVERAL times we'd get the ball 1st and Goal at the 1 and I'd tell my friends (who didn't give a shit) that we wouldn't score because we are TERRIBLE inside the 5...

LJ isn't the best goal to go back in the league...never was, never will be...but he scored 20+ TD's a couple of seasons in a row so he knows how to find the end zone...but our line wasn't capable of opening up ANY holes...

He only averaged what he did because of the spread...how many long runs did LJ have last year?

I thought his best game of the season was against Oakland when he didn't really have any long runs, but he consistently fought for yards and gained 3+ at a time...

I'd rather take 3, 3, 3, 4, 3, 5, 3, 2, 3, 3, 5, 5 then 15, 1, 0, 0, -2, 25, 0, 1, 2, 1, 2, 0, 20...

I thought Thigpen's ability to run really kept the opposing DE's in check and that allowed our offensive line to look representable even though Niswanger/Jones/Smith/Taylor/McIntosh have no business being in the starting lineup.

I would like to see the Chiefs go QB #3...

But I won't call it the end of the world if we see what Thigpen has in 2009...

Worst case scenario?

He flops and we get another top 5 pick and we go QB in 2010...

I don't see another 2 win season in the horizon...we no longer have an inept coach...I think Haley will at least know how to finish games...if we had a coach like that last year we would have won 6 games.

The fact Gailey drew up an offense that allowed the Chiefs to compete last year was amazing to me...our defense had 10 sacks...10 friggin' sacks! We should have been the Lions last year...but somehow we competed week in and week out because of the spread offense.

Hootie, if there were any QBs in the 2010 class I'd agree with you, but there is no way to properly express how shit awful that class is. Every QB is coming from the spread. They aren't going to know how to read a defense. The best Pro-Style prospect is Jevan Snead.

Otherwise, you are left with a bunch of insurance salesmen like McCoy or Tebow, or a guy like Sam Bradford, who is basically Chad Pennington with less accuracy, if Pennington couldn't read a defense.

**AustinChief** · 02-18-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

I think if we learned anything from this last season it is that the spread works fine between the 20s. From the goalline, not so much.

We learned that it worked great FOR US between the 20s... other not so crappy teams were able to utilize effectively in the red zone as well (i.e. Dolphins, Pats, Steelers)

...

but the real point is not to say the spread is better ... just EASIER to find talent for... I don't think a probowl 3-4 defense versus a probowl 4-3 defense is BETTER... but it is easier to find players for. That is the logic that I think is going to see more and more spread-hybrids coming to the NFL.

Brock · 02-18-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

We learned that it worked great FOR US between the 20s... other not so crappy teams were able to utilize effectively in the red zone as well (i.e. Dolphins, Pats, Steelers).

Those teams were all able to vary their attack though. The Chiefs couldn't. The spread is fine for situational matchups, but it can't be your bread and butter.

**AustinChief** · 02-18-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Those teams were all able to vary their attack though. The Chiefs couldn't. The spread is fine for situational matchups, but it can't be your bread and butter.

I disagree. WHY can't it be your bread and butter IF you can also run under center ENOUGH to be versatile? What if the team ran a 80/20 spread/standard?

Hootie · 02-18-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I disagree. WHY can't it be your bread and butter IF you can also run under center ENOUGH to be versatile? What if the team ran a 80/20 spread/standard?

I agree with this.

The spread did wonders for our offense last season. We were TERRIBLE goal to go...

We adjusted to the spread halfway through the season...Gailey pretty much drew something up and said "this is what we're going to do!"

Who's to say a whole offseason with OFFENSIVE minded coaches won't do wonders for Thigpen/the spread/the offense/red zone packages/etc...

I'm in the Stafford/Sanchez camp, but I don't think it will be the end of the world if we give Thigpen another go around.

Brock · 02-18-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I disagree. WHY can't it be your bread and butter IF you can also run under center ENOUGH to be versatile? What if the team ran a 80/20 spread/standard?

What do you do when a team neutralizes your spread? If you're the Steelers, you have a built in ability to go to a power running offense. There are probably at least a few games the Chiefs would have been able to win this last year if they could have changed it up. I'm not against running the spread a lot, but only if you can immediately change in mid-drive to something else.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-18-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I disagree. WHY can't it be your bread and butter IF you can also run under center ENOUGH to be versatile? What if the team ran a 80/20 spread/standard?

They better have a litany of QBs, because most of them are going to get killed. QBs get hit more under the spread, and it hampers your ability to run the ball.

Yeah, you could run it successfully if you had the line of the '03 Chiefs, or if you have receivers like Moss and Welker who can beat 1 on 1 coverage.

What are the odds of being able to field either one of those units?

ChiefsCountry · 02-18-2009, 03:02 PM

Spread offense is just like the option in the 70's and 80's. Great for college and high school but not so much for the pros.

02-18-2009, 02:43 PM	Topic Starter
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $2249112	Is the "spread" the new 3-4? I personally like the 3-4 for ONE very important reason... once you have found your NT the rest of your defense is much easier to find talent for than a 4-3 is. With so many colleges running the spread and althetes like Tebow, McCoy and Bradford becoming the norm... will the NFL adjust to a hybrid (running a PURE spread wouldn't work) offense that relies heavily on the spread? It seems to me that it carries the same advantage that the 3-4 does... easier to find talent for it. Again, I am talking more of a pistol/wildcat/spread-flex with enough traditional under-center formations to keep it interesting. Let's try to think of what's NEXT here and not just jump into the "never worked in the past" mode... the people that think like that are always a step behind the curve.
Posts: 19,591

02-18-2009, 02:44 PM	#2
Sully It Goes On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lees Summit Casino cash: $10026331	I don't believe the spread will ever work consistently as a stand-alone offense in the NFL. However, if I'm wrong.... The teams that run a 3-4, and can slip into a 3-3 stack, are going to be miles ahead in defending it. __________________ "And I don't wish that girl any bad luck," he said, "but I hope she gets hit with a car." - Tommy Lasorda
Posts: 18,295

02-18-2009, 03:02 PM	#15
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $1828752	Spread offense is just like the option in the 70's and 80's. Great for college and high school but not so much for the pros.
Posts: 49,870

02-18-2009, 02:45 PM	#3
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	I think if we learned anything from this last season it is that the spread works fine between the 20s. From the goalline, not so much.
Posts: 47,314