Chiefs The myth of Pioli - Page 16

B_Ambuehl · 12-07-2009, 01:12 PM

LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0

This time it’s personnel
Building to collapse
By Ron Borges
Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago
+ Recent Articles

MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner.

That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21.

Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro
football.

It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way.

Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday.

While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL.

These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots.

“It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him.

Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now.

Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom?

They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom?

Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom?

Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses?

That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change.

“We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.”

The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it.

“We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too.

“Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.”

That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.

**SAUTO** · 12-07-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Belichick's long time right hand man.

I Had to cut part of this due to size.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams

i know what he does, but if you REALLY ask most would have said pioli was his right hand man

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-07-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You are to reading comprehension what Frank Stallone is to popular music.

I gotta get some work done for Finals Week.

I'll catch up later.

BucEyedPea · 12-07-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

That's well known though, the Patriots have been drafting like total shit for quite awhile now.

Is that why their young D isn't that good?

**SAUTO** · 12-07-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

No, you idiot.

I'm saying that statistically, the 2009 defense compares to the 2008 defense - but that's not the case, as any Patriots fan or someone who watches them regularly can attest to.

Their defensive rankings are still in line (in part) because they have the luxury of facing 3 inexperienced QB's twice this season.

see theres no reason to call names, thats not nice. the defense last year didnt really compare to the defense the year before either, yet all you guys would say is that cassel took a 16-0 team and made them 11-5, that wasnt true

FAX · 12-07-2009, 04:37 PM

Haley just made a comment which was news to me. Apparently, the Fabulous Chiefs now lead the league in dropped passes. I didn't even know they tracked this stat. Nevertheless, it's this kind of problem that makes the whole "Kill Pioli" deal kind of .... MOOT!!!

Throughout the squad, on both sides of the ball, from the top of the depth chart to the bottom, we are (and were) bereft of talent. The majority of our starters would likely not make the cut on a top, NFL team. For the most part, they are barely average and make mental errors like Victoria's Secret makes erections. When Pioli and Haley arrived, there was practically nothing to build around.

I'm sure that some people fully expect a brand new GM to unpack his bag on Monday and, by Wednesday, complete an overhaul of our pitiful scouting department, fully evaluate our lame-ass coaching staff, and rebuild our apparently non-existent player development group as well as identify, assess, and sign an essentially new roster of players that includes a few high impact, game changers. Oh, and while he's at it, make sure that the current players catch catchable balls. Yep. That's entirely reasonable.

FAX

Mecca · 12-07-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Is that why their young D isn't that good?

Considering they have 1 good young defensive player...pretty much.

**SAUTO** · 12-07-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Haley just made a comment which was news to me. Apparently, the Fabulous Chiefs now lead the league in dropped passes. I didn't even know they tracked this stat. Nevertheless, it's this kind of problem that makes the whole "Kill Pioli" deal kind of .... MOOT!!!

Throughout the squad, on both sides of the ball, from the top of the depth chart to the bottom, we are (and were) bereft of talent. The majority of our starters would likely not make the cut on a top, NFL team. For the most part, they are barely average and make mental errors like Victoria's Secret makes erections. When Pioli and Haley arrived, there was practically nothing to build around.

I'm sure that some people fully expect a brand new GM to unpack his bag on Monday and, by Wednesday, complete an overhaul of our pitiful scouting department, fully evaluate our lame-ass coaching staff, and rebuild our apparently non-existent player development group as well as identify, assess, and sign an essentially new roster of players that includes a few high impact, game changers. Oh, and while he's at it, make sure that the current players catch catchable balls. Yep. That's entirely reasonable.

FAX

at one point yesterday cassel was 5-13 with 7 drops. if those balls would have been caught that wouldnt have been too bad of a stat line huh?

Rooster · 12-07-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

I'm sure that some people fully expect a brand new GM to unpack his bag on Monday and, by Wednesday, complete an overhaul of our pitiful scouting department, fully evaluate our lame-ass coaching staff, and rebuild our apparently non-existent player development group as well as identify, assess, and sign an essentially new roster of players that includes a few high impact, game changers. Oh, and while he's at it, make sure that the current players catch catchable balls. Yep. That's entirely reasonable.

FAX

What? That's not possible?

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 04:46 PM

Anyone think having a quarterback who throws the ball behind receivers contributes to the dropped passes stat?

FAX · 12-07-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Anyone think having a quarterback who throws the ball behind receivers contributes to the dropped passes stat?

I don't know how they arrive at that statistic. Didn't even know they tracked it.

I imagine that the ball must be deemed "catchable" in the first place in order for it to be determined to be a "drop". Wouldn't you?

FAX

**DeezNutz** · 12-07-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

at one point yesterday cassel was 5-13 with 7 drops. if those balls would have been caught that wouldnt have been too bad of a stat line huh?

And not all of those passes were worth a ****ing shit. One of those drops was the pass to Cox to start the game, and it was NOT a catchable ball for a ****ing FB.

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

I don't know how they arrive at that statistic. Didn't even know they tracked it.

I imagine that the ball must be deemed "catchable" in the first place in order for it to be determined to be a "drop". Wouldn't you?

FAX

Catchable doesn't mean it was a perfect pass.

Anyway, Cassel makes a lot more money than his dogshit receivers. Maybe if he put the ball in the best spot they wouldn't drop so many passes.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-07-2009, 04:51 PM

"If's, but's, candy and nuts".

FAX · 12-07-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

And not all of those passes were worth a ****ing shit. One of those drops was the pass to Cox to start the game, and it was NOT a catchable ball for a ****ing FB.

See, that's the problem. Some guys see the glass half full and some guys spill it on the floor while playing "Jiggle Jugs" with a fat girl's bosom.

Still, somebody's counting and, according to Haley, we're leading the league in the drops department.

FAX

Christofire · 12-07-2009, 04:56 PM

Probably said already, but here we go:

How about we just acknowledge that there is no exact science to finding the kind of chemistry that won 3 SBs in 4 yrs in NE? All of the planets aligned ... players filled the right roles at the right time ... talents and strategic thinking meshed perfectly in that short span of time, and paid great dividends.

Belichick is still a great football mind. The pats are still a winning organization. But reality is you can't just plug guys with similar physical traits in and expect them to have the same instincts and the same intuitive knowledge of the scheme as the guy who played it so well before.
Posted via Mobile Device

12-07-2009, 01:12 PM
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	The myth of Pioli LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik. http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0 This time it’s personnel Building to collapse By Ron Borges Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago + Recent Articles MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner. That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21. Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro football. It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way. Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday. While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL. These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots. “It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him. Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now. Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom? They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom? Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom? Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses? That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change. “We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.” The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it. “We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too. “Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.” That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.
Posts: 2,613

12-07-2009, 04:37 PM	#230
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Haley just made a comment which was news to me. Apparently, the Fabulous Chiefs now lead the league in dropped passes. I didn't even know they tracked this stat. Nevertheless, it's this kind of problem that makes the whole "Kill Pioli" deal kind of .... MOOT!!! Throughout the squad, on both sides of the ball, from the top of the depth chart to the bottom, we are (and were) bereft of talent. The majority of our starters would likely not make the cut on a top, NFL team. For the most part, they are barely average and make mental errors like Victoria's Secret makes erections. When Pioli and Haley arrived, there was practically nothing to build around. I'm sure that some people fully expect a brand new GM to unpack his bag on Monday and, by Wednesday, complete an overhaul of our pitiful scouting department, fully evaluate our lame-ass coaching staff, and rebuild our apparently non-existent player development group as well as identify, assess, and sign an essentially new roster of players that includes a few high impact, game changers. Oh, and while he's at it, make sure that the current players catch catchable balls. Yep. That's entirely reasonable. FAX
Posts: 44,492

12-07-2009, 04:46 PM	#234
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $1000478	Anyone think having a quarterback who throws the ball behind receivers contributes to the dropped passes stat? __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 296,770

12-07-2009, 04:51 PM	#238
Sweet Daddy Hate Unsparing Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	"If's, but's, candy and nuts". __________________ 1. Merciless, severe. 2. Given freely and generously. 100% refusal to overrate 20 year Head Coaches with ZERO **ing rings as a Head Coach. CP's Official Professor of 'Dem Blues for 2019/2020!**
Posts: 77,135

12-07-2009, 04:56 PM	#240
Christofire Aberzombie and Fitch Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southwest Kansas Casino cash: $10004950	Probably said already, but here we go: How about we just acknowledge that there is no exact science to finding the kind of chemistry that won 3 SBs in 4 yrs in NE? All of the planets aligned ... players filled the right roles at the right time ... talents and strategic thinking meshed perfectly in that short span of time, and paid great dividends. Belichick is still a great football mind. The pats are still a winning organization. But reality is you can't just plug guys with similar physical traits in and expect them to have the same instincts and the same intuitive knowledge of the scheme as the guy who played it so well before. Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 582