Cop shot dog, owner blamed police

[Msmith]

There are wrong in so many levels in this story.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

dude, you've been reaching all afternoon, and your argument hinges on the perspective that a crime wasn't going on, the officer knew no one was in danger, but he went in anyway. full of speculation.

A crime wasn't going on.

And there's no more speculation than any sort of inferences based on behavior.

My conclusion is based on the reputation of the law enforcement in the area and the behavior of the parties.

Like I said - you essentially want a photo of the officer using the Constitution to wipe his ass. I, unlike you, am willing to think it through a bit.

I understand, you have to disengage your brain and mindlessly back the badge. I'm gonna go ahead and look to circumstances and actually think about them to draw a conclusion.

Keep that head buried in the sand.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

because that's exactly what I've been doing?

It is.

[tooge]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If you think I was arguing for the dog's rights I would suggest that any point I've made has simply been lost on you.

I don't give two shits about the dog, as I have made readily apparent several times. I've said I don't blame him for shooting the dog once he foolishly created the situation.

In all honesty, I have no earthly idea how you could derive that I am arguing the dog's rights from anything I have said in this thread.

No, I dont really believe you are arguing for the dogs rights. I'm saying the guy was doing something AND he happened to own a breed of dog that carries with it a reputaion for violence and unpredictability. These two facts are mutually exclusive. The cop shoulda announced his presence or gone to the front door. Thats one statement. The cop shot the dog because the dog was threatening and was a pitbull. That is another statement. The two are totally mutually exclusive.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by tooge

No, I dont really believe you are arguing for the dogs rights. I'm saying the guy was doing something AND he happened to own a breed of dog that carries with it a reputaion for violence and unpredictability. These two facts are mutually exclusive. The cop shoulda announced his presence or gone to the front door. Thats one statement. The cop shot the dog because the dog was threatening and was a pitbull. That is another statement. The two are totally mutually exclusive.

Indeed they are and I have explicitly stated as such.

Not sure what we're arguing about here. I think you may have confused me with someone else. I'm not sure how much more clear I could make it than this:

If I were an officer justifiably in the area and a large aggressive dog was attacking me, Jesus himself could come down and tell me that the dog wouldn't attack and I'd still shoot the MFer. Everybody says their dog won't hurt you...and a fair amount of them are wrong.

My concern isn't with the shooting of the dog, it's with the conduct that created the problem where there wasn't one initially.

[crazycoffey]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

A crime wasn't going on.

And there's no more speculation than any sort of inferences based on behavior.

My conclusion is based on the reputation of the law enforcement in the area and the behavior of the parties.

Like I said - you essentially want a photo of the officer using the Constitution to wipe his ass. I, unlike you, am willing to think it through a bit.

I understand, you have to disengage your brain and mindlessly back the badge. I'm gonna go ahead and look to circumstances and actually think about them to draw a conclusion.

Keep that head buried in the sand.

If I'm mindlessly backing a badge, you are naive to the world around you, but different opinions are what makes this place so awesome, it would be cool if we could have a grown up discussion without the insane sarcasm and insults.

You said from the beginning to now, that a crime wasn't going on. you know this how? from hindsight. because you know now that it was only a potato gun and no one was injured anywhere for any reason.

Fact - call to police that gunshots were heard.
Fact - Officer responds and tries to figure out what is going on.
Fact - He can enter a backyard, front yard, alley, sidewalk, knock on doors to accomplish that.
Fact - you don't like that the officer can do that, because you think it's an invasion of the constitution.
Fact - you can believe that all you want, and I can tell you the officer was in his right authority to go in the back yard and you will still tell me I'm wrong.
Fact - I can not say I would have done anything this officer did in that situation, I can also not say with complete certainty that I wouldn't have either. And that means I'm backing the badge, just because I've worn one? Without my own independent thought, I have my head in the sand?

well then, **** you. It's 130 in the morning, I gotta get up in a few hours and get ready to go back into the depths of hell, smile at the devil and hope nothing bad happens. Enjoy your freedom to be a dick. Peace CP.....

[Chiefnj2]

A crime was going on - "Reimer and his friend, Joshua DiMaggio, 20, also of Metairie, were cited for illegal discharge of a slingshot or firearm."

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

A crime was going on - "Reimer and his friend, Joshua DiMaggio, 20, also of Metairie, were cited for illegal discharge of a slingshot or firearm."

A crime had been completed, and yes, there is a major distinction there.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

I'm unfamiliar with the law in Missouri, but in Colorado I believe that the invader isn't an invader at all until he enters the house.

Make My Day law been cancelled since I lived in Colorado?

[DJ's left nut]

.

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

If I'm mindlessly backing a badge, you are naive to the world around you, but different opinions are what makes this place so awesome, it would be cool if we could have a grown up discussion without the insane sarcasm and insults. Did that for quite some time; was informed that being a lawyer meant I presume to be omniscient; decided you could blow me

You said from the beginning to now, that a crime wasn't going on. you know this how? from hindsight. because you know now that it was only a potato gun and no one was injured anywhere for any reason. The officer also knew there was a potato gun, according to him. He also claimed to be able to see well enough into the yard to determine that there was a potato gun there and yet heard no signs of a struggle, saw no signs of a struggle and surely didn't see anyone injured.

Fact - call to police that gunshots were heard. -- Yup
Fact - Officer responds and tries to figure out what is going on. for the moment he is fine.

Fact - He can enter a backyard, front yard, alley, sidewalk, knock on doors to accomplish that.
Fact - you don't like that the officer can do that, because you think it's an invasion of the constitution. without an exigency, it is; there is no carte blanche investigatory authority and that is why we have warrants

Fact - you can believe that all you want, and I can tell you the officer was in his right authority to go in the back yard and you will still tell me I'm wrong. and have provided backing for this. I've also provided the rationale the officer will use to get around it (he thought it was an emergency); you're taking him at face value whereas I am not. I'm basing it on his behavior, you're basing it on what appears to be no more than faith in a fellow officer.

Fact - I can not say I would have done anything this officer did in that situation, I can also not say with complete certainty that I wouldn't have either. And that means I'm backing the badge, just because I've worn one? Without my own independent thought, I have my head in the sand? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But you seem pretty happy just saying he thought this was an emergency situation without examining his conduct and whether or not he's just making it up as he goes to cover his own tail

well then, **** you. It's 130 in the morning, I gotta get up in a few hours and get ready to go back into the depths of hell, smile at the devil and hope nothing bad happens. Enjoy your freedom to be a dick. Peace CP.....If you need me to, I can pull those nails out whenever you get tired of hanging from that cross

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

.

DJ I don't know how your intentions but you are kind of coming off like an attorney trying to tell a cop what it's like to be a cop.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by vailpass

DJ I don't know how your intentions but you are kind of coming off like an attorney trying to tell a cop what it's like to be a cop.

I don't think I had to dive too deep into the intricacies of day to day life on the force.

I've subjected it to a simple sniff test.

If police officers made it a habit to go areas that present an immediate threat to the health of themselves or others that are secluded from public view, without backup present and with no viable means of escape, they wouldn't be around too terribly long.

One doesn't have to be a cop to recognize that, do they?

That's why I don't believe the officer believed this was a situation that presented an immediate threat. I'm not exactly attempting to impose my viewpoint on him here, but I certainly have to question his objectivity when he refuses to consider the possibility, especially in light of the known proclivities of law enforcement in that area and the defensive response by the Department.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

dude, you've been reaching all afternoon, and your argument hinges on the perspective that a crime wasn't going on, the officer knew no one was in danger, but he went in anyway. full of speculation.

You're also ignoring the carelessness of the officer who decided he was just going to bum around the guy's property. Like DJ's Nut has said, if they sent one guy and given that the cop claims he saw the potato gun through a fence, then that means he knew the guy wasn't a threat. If he knew he wasn't the threat, the safest thing to do is knock on the front door. I don't see how anyone can suggest mysteriously snooping through the guy's backyard ALONE was a safer approach.

Instead, the cop went in alone, snooped through the guy's backyard, and a guy's dog (it doesn't matter how dangerous the dog is, because the owner had it fenced in, which means he was following all the rules) did what any dog would do in that situation. Let me ask you this. What would your first thought be if you were the owner of the house and you saw a mysterious man all of a sudden in your backyard holding a gun? Your first response might be to sprint to your room, get a gun of your own, and sprint out the backdoor. Why create a scene like that? All the cop had to do was knock on the door.

And given that this seems to be one of a long spell of cops that have shot dogs just because they looked like they were ready to bite, that tells me that these cops need to be better trained on how to handle these dogs. Again, the postal service goes on people's properties all the time. They deal with unchained dogs ALL THE TIME. Mailmen don't carry guns. They carry pepper spray. If mailmen with no padding and no training on self defense can put a dog down with pepper spray, why are cops shooting the living bejeezus out of dogs?

Sorry. Agree or not about a dog as a living thing. It's at least considered someone's property and it's not cheap property. The cost for the owner to buy the dog, to feed and care for the dog, and probably the cost to take the dog to the hospital after he was shot. I view it as destruction of property. Why destruct property when you don't have to?

[rockymtnchief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You're also ignoring the carelessness of the officer who decided he was just going to bum around the guy's property. Like DJ's Nut has said, if they sent one guy and given that the cop claims he saw the potato gun through a fence, then that means he knew the guy wasn't a threat. If he knew he wasn't the threat, the safest thing to do is knock on the front door. I don't see how anyone can suggest mysteriously snooping through the guy's backyard ALONE was a safer approach.

Instead, the cop went in alone...

I just wanted to point out that, according to the second article, it doesn't sound like he was alone.

Jordan yelled for his mom and his friend Josh to get the badge names of the deputies involved in the shooting. All of them turned away or covered up their name tags.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by rockymtnchief

I just wanted to point out that, according to the second article, it doesn't sound like he was alone.

Ah, did not see that.

Either way, don't understand anyone here who makes the argument that the guy is safer snooping around the backyard without the owner knowing about it.

I know how I'd react if I'm sitting in my house and I saw a mysterious person in my yard rooting through my shit.

[crazycoffey]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

.

morning all. can't stay long, gotta go pick a fight somewhere else today....

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey
If I'm mindlessly backing a badge, you are naive to the world around you, but different opinions are what makes this place so awesome, it would be cool if we could have a grown up discussion without the insane sarcasm and insults. Did that for quite some time; was informed that being a lawyer meant I presume to be omniscient; decided you could blow meI know it's hard enough for lawyers to hear sarcasm, let alone read it, but that was a joke, you stated you wanted an officer to say he'd still go in the backyard, I said I've been a cop and I would, cops and lawyers have a speckled relationship, when you let on I thought that funny response, sorry I left off a stupid smilie,

You said from the beginning to now, that a crime wasn't going on. you know this how? from hindsight. because you know now that it was only a potato gun and no one was injured anywhere for any reason. The officer also knew there was a potato gun, according to him. He also claimed to be able to see well enough into the yard to determine that there was a potato gun there and yet heard no signs of a struggle, saw no signs of a struggle and surely didn't see anyone injured.try to understand, the presence of a potato gun doesn't devalue the original call, since it there still could be a gun fired in a yard that contains a potato gun. For some reason, you keep thinking this is the tell tale sign that the officer knew nothing was really wrong but decided to proceed anyway.

Fact - call to police that gunshots were heard. -- YupLook closely CP, a lawyer and a knuckle headed cop can agree on some things, doesn't happen often enough. (better)
Fact - Officer responds and tries to figure out what is going on. for the moment he is fine.Lawyer speak for, I'll placate you for now on this fact, but bring it up again later when I want it to mean some else. no smilie this time....
Fact - He can enter a backyard, front yard, alley, sidewalk, knock on doors to accomplish that.
Fact - you don't like that the officer can do that, because you think it's an invasion of the constitution. without an exigency, it is; there is no carte blanche investigatory authority and that is why we have warrantsThe exigency is the call of gunfire, in a rough county (other people's words, not mine) and if the officer walks away right now and someone was hurt somewhere in or near the house, you'd be frying him for not going in. He is still in the right to go to the backyard to make contact with the owner and see what can be seen. Could he do it without the fence? Are saying the fence is the way people can keep the cops off their lawns? (Skippy?)

Fact - you can believe that all you want, and I can tell you the officer was in his right authority to go in the back yard and you will still tell me I'm wrong. and have provided backing for this. I've also provided the rationale the officer will use to get around it (he thought it was an emergency); you're taking him at face value whereas I am not. I'm basing it on his behavior, you're basing it on what appears to be no more than faith in a fellow officer. I am backing the rights of an officer to do his job, and I'm not telling you his rationale, because I don't know what he was thinking, I'm not a lawyer. I'm taking the situation at face value, where you through in presumptions to collaborate your agenda. That is my opinion at this time. I've said all along I don't agree or disagree with his actions. There are only a few ways this call could be answered and this department did it this way. Personally, shots fired or not, I don't have a problem with getting a car in front and a car in back waiting for a few people to show up for backup and walking right up to the front door, tell the person that answered we heard that shots were fired there and want to look around to see if anyone is hurt. He says it was a potato gun, I still ask if I can look, he says yes, simple report and I'm back on the street, he says no, I ask for a warrant and watch the front and back until I got it, but I was a Cop in the Dallas area, and feel like I've got a different approach. I'm just saying I don't know any reason for this call, that he can't go in the backyard.

Fact - I can not say I would have done anything this officer did in that situation, I can also not say with complete certainty that I wouldn't have either. And that means I'm backing the badge, just because I've worn one? Without my own independent thought, I have my head in the sand? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But you seem pretty happy just saying he thought this was an emergency situation without examining his conduct and whether or not he's just making it up as he goes to cover his own tail making it up as he goes along? you watch too many movies. yes he's human and humans are prone to making mistakes, errors in judgement and in this case, a bloodlust for killing innocent pitbulls. Good thing lawyers aren't human, they aren't prone to such miscalculations. (do I really need a smilie here?)

well then, **** you. It's 130 in the morning, I gotta get up in a few hours and get ready to go back into the depths of hell, smile at the devil and hope nothing bad happens. Enjoy your freedom to be a dick. Peace CP.....If you need me to, I can pull those nails out whenever you get tired of hanging from that cross sorry bad few days, saw some things I don't think anyone should ever have to see, seen bad before, but never felt so god damn useless and it effecting my demeanor. Another human frailty I suppose.