What makes you a Matt Cassel fan next season?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by 58kcfan89

I'm a pretty big Cassel fan, and I think he's going to get better next year (forgive me if what I post has already been said, I didn't feel like going through 8 pages of Cassel hate).

First off, he didn't have consistent coaching this year and I think having to change schemes right before the regular season hurt him quite a bit. That and the fact that he didn't have a QB Coach/OC that had enough time to spend helping him along.

You can throw all the stats you want at me, but a QBs only going to be as good as his WRs/OL let him. I know the OL improved later in the season, but the WRs really didn't. When you're trotting Bobby Wade and Lance Long out there, it's gunna take a lot of work for the QB to come through looking good.

Anyway... That's my 2 cents. Hate away.

Your two cents has been devalued to GM status.

[tonyetony]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Your two cents has been devalued to GM status.

Don't underestimate the value of good line play to the value of of good QB performance.



I realize Cassel took a lot of sacks during his 11 wins at New England but you have to admit that our O-line was one of the worst in the NFL for at least 12 of our games this year.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by tonyetony

Don't underestimate the value of good line play to the value of of good QB performance.



I realize Cassel took a lot of sacks during his 11 wins at New England but you have to admit that our O-line was one of the worst in the NFL for at least 12 of our games this year.

Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007.

Cassel sacked 47 times in 2008.

Brady sacked 20 times in 2009.

Cassel was sacked 42 times in 2009.

Sometimes, it's the QB and sometimes it's the line.

I think Cassel is just going to be "one of those guys".

And Chiefs fans WAY overvalue the offensive line and underrate playmakers.

[TigerPig]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007.

Cassel sacked 47 times in 2008.

Brady sacked 20 times in 2009.

Cassel was sacked 42 times in 2009.

Sometimes, it's the QB and sometimes it's the line.

I think Cassel is just going to be "one of those guys".

And Chiefs fans WAY overvalue the offensive line and underrate playmakers.

I respect your opinion, but am totally perplexed how you can say we overvalue an offensive line when you saw FIRST HAND as a Chief fan how amazing things can go when you have a future HOF LT. That team was BETTER because of him and he didn't touch the ball. Do you not think Roaf made the Chiefs SIGNIFICANTLY better by being there?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by TigerPig

I respect your opinion, but am totally perplexed how you can say we overvalue an offensive line when you saw FIRST HAND as a Chief fan how amazing things can go when you have a future HOF LT. That team was BETTER because of him and he didn't touch the ball. Do you not think Roaf made the Chiefs SIGNIFICANTLY better by being there?

The Chiefs won NOTHING with Roaf.

The path to the Super Bowl is NOT paved with five All-Pro offensive lineman.

The Saints didn't win one ****ing thing with Roaf, either.

This league is ALL about playmakers.

[TigerPig]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The Chiefs won NOTHING with Roaf.

The path to the Super Bowl is NOT paved with five All-Pro offensive lineman.

The Saints didn't win one ****ing thing with Roaf, either.

This league is ALL about playmakers.

Barry Sanders didn't win anything either... Nor did Tim Brown, or Dan Marino.

You need BOTH. Just because someone doesn't touch the ball doesn't mean they aren't super important. All you have to do is look at how many teams will not hesitate to take an LT in the first five draft picks. Look at Orlando Pace or Chris Samuels.

You cannot win a Super Bowl unless a team has both a great Playmaker (or two) AND a good Offensive Line. The two factions on here need to realize either both of you are right, or both of you are wrong (depending on how you look at it).

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by TigerPig

Barry Sanders didn't win anything either... Nor did Tim Brown, or Dan Marino.

You need BOTH. Just because someone doesn't touch the ball doesn't mean they aren't super important. All you have to do is look at how many teams will not hesitate to take an LT in the first five draft picks. Look at Orlando Pace or Chris Samuels.

But numerous teams win without doing that or really drafting any linemen high where as you'll be hard pressed to find a team that won without playmakers.

A good trench team that had defensive playmakers but none on offense was basically, Marty's Chiefs, what did that get us?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by TigerPig

Barry Sanders didn't win anything either... Nor did Tim Brown, or Dan Marino.

You're confusing the 1980's and 1990's with 2010.

Let us all know when you're up to speed.

Thanks.

[58kcfan89]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007.

Cassel sacked 47 times in 2008.

Brady sacked 20 times in 2009.

Cassel was sacked 42 times in 2009.

Sometimes, it's the QB and sometimes it's the line.

I think Cassel is just going to be "one of those guys".

And Chiefs fans WAY overvalue the offensive line and underrate playmakers.

Fair enough (and FTR, I'm not blaming all of Cassel's mistakes on the OL), but throwing to Lance Long & Bobby Wade isn't exactly a great way to scare a defense.... IMO, a QB's only as good as his WRs and OL, neither of which Cassel had this year.

I just don't see how everyone can completely write him off after everything that was going against him this year. He had a bad line and bad WRs in addition to what I mentioned about the offensive scheme.

You don't think that improving the quality of the other 10 guys on the field will improve Cassel's play?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by 58kcfan89

You don't think that improving the quality of the other 10 guys on the field will improve Cassel's play?

The guy you quoted specifically referred to the offensive line.

Yes, I think the "other 10 players" significantly affect the QB.

But with that said, I think Percy Harvin and Jamaal Charles would have been a potent combo.

Jamaal Charles & Tyson Jackson? Not so much.

The NFL is about playmakers.

This league is no longer defined by the 'trenches", and Chiefs fans need to realize this is no longer the way to win BIG.

[tonyetony]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The guy you quoted specifically referred to the offensive line.

Yes, I think the "other 10 players" significantly affect the QB.

But with that said, I think Percy Harvin and Jamaal Charles would have been a potent combo.

Jamaal Charles & Tyson Jackson? Not so much.

The NFL is about playmakers.

This league is no longer defined by the 'trenches", and Chiefs fans need to realize this is no longer the way to win BIG.

Our trenches suck. If you think about it for more than second or two you might realize that is the main problem.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by tonyetony

Our trenches suck. If you think about it for more than second or two you might realize that is the main problem.

So, you advocate that the Chiefs spend ANOTHER TOP FIVE PICK on the line?

They spent NINE DRAFT CHOICES on the defensive line in NINE YEARS.

What was the result?

HORSESHIT.

So you advocate MORE high picks on the line?

Are you INSANE?

Or is that your internet persona?

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by tonyetony

Our trenches suck. If you think about it for more than second or two you might realize that is the main problem.

But they don't require high picks to fix, that's the point. Seriously since we're going 3-4 and Albert is on this team the Chiefs should never use a 1st round pick on a lineman on either side.

[58kcfan89]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The guy you quoted specifically referred to the offensive line.

Yes, I think the "other 10 players" significantly affect the QB.

But with that said, I think Percy Harvin and Jamaal Charles would have been a potent combo.

Jamaal Charles & Tyson Jackson? Not so much.

The NFL is about playmakers.

This league is no longer defined by the 'trenches", and Chiefs fans need to realize this is no longer the way to win BIG.

FTR, I didn't quote anyone, I just said that a QB is only as good as his WRs/OL.

As for the playmakers/lines, it goes both ways. I'm not advocating spending another 1st round pick on a lineman, as I agree that this team (specifically, the defense) needs as many playmakers as possible. That being said, if we had Harvin, it would be tough to let him make plays with the way our OL pass-blocked for him during the first 12ish weeks of the year.

I think our LT is set and that's the only OL position worth a first round pick. If we take a defensive playmaker or a WR at 5, I'm fine with it. Any of our line needs can be filled in rounds 2-7 and free agency.