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Old 07-23-2011, 11:07 AM  
CoMoChief CoMoChief is offline
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ESPN's Bill Williamson Ranks AFCW's Top 40 Players
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post...n-the-afc-west


1. Philip Rivers, San Diego: He is an elite player at the most important position on the field.

2. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland: There’s a reason he’ll be the top prize in free agency.

3. Jamaal Charles, Kansas City: One of the NFL’s most dynamic young players.

4. Antonio Gates, San Diego: He should end up in Canton.

5. Tamba Hali, Kansas City: One of the NFL’s best defensive players.

6. Dwayne Bowe, Kansas City: He is a game-changing talent.

7. Richard Seymour, Oakland: Respected veteran changed Oakland’s defense.

8. Vincent Jackson, San Diego: Expect a strong rebound in 2011.

9. Ryan Clady, Denver: One of the game's premier left tackles.

10. Champ Bailey, Denver: Even at 33, he is special.

11. Eric Berry, Kansas City: He should be the game’s best safety soon.

12. Nick Hardwick, San Diego: An anchor to a strong offensive line.

13. Darren McFadden, Oakland: He is developing into a star.

=> 14. Matt Cassel, Kansas City: Cassel has to continue to make strides.

15. Zach Miller, Oakland: He can make Oakland’s offense special.

16. Derrick Johnson, Kansas City: He is a serious playmaker.

17. Quentin Jammer, San Diego: Solid veteran is an anchor to a good defense.

18. Kris Dielman, San Diego: A steady hand on the Chargers’ line.

19. D.J. Williams, Denver: He is a tackling machine.

20. Marcus McNeill, San Diego: He’s an upper-echelon left tackle.

21. Shaun Phillips, San Diego: He is one of the division’s best pass-rushers.

22. Brandon Flowers, Kansas City: One of the game’s best young cornerbacks.

23. Eric Weddle, San Diego: A hard-nosed playmaker at safety.

24. Glenn Dorsey, Kansas City: He came on strong in 2010.

25. Tommy Kelly, Oakland: Massive defensive tackle had a big season in 2010.

26. Elvis Dumervil, Denver: If Dumervil bounces back from sitting out in 2010, he should be ranked higher next year.

27. Rolando McClain, Oakland: McClain has a chance to be one of the division’s better linebackers.

28. Brandon Lloyd, Denver: Lloyd came out of nowhere for a special 2010.

29. Shane Lechler, Oakland: The game’s best kicking specialist.

30. Ryan Lilja, Kansas City: A gritty, tough veteran guard.

31. Malcom Floyd, San Diego: He can make the spectacular catch look easy.

32. Brian Waters, Kansas City: A great veteran presence on a good line.

33. Jason Campbell, Oakland: Oakland will be depending on Campbell a lot this season.

34. Kamerion Wimbley, Oakland: He can get sacks in bunches.

35. Tony Moeaki, Kansas City: Second-year tight end is a player to watch.

36. Lamarr Houston, Oakland: He has a chance to be special.

37. Antonio Garay, San Diego: He had a strong 2010 season at 31.

38. Ryan Mathews, San Diego: He showed flashes as a rookie.

39. Michael Bush, Oakland: He and McFadden form a nice tandem.

40. Thomas Jones, Kansas City: He can still help the Chiefs at 33.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:34 AM   #16
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Thomas Jones was one of the NFL's very worst running backs last season. But he's better than Brandon Carr, who is a legit top-20 cornerback in the NFL?
I'm not sure he's better then Jackie Battle right now.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:35 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
I think Flowers is rated lower that he should be, but the fact remains that he was outperformed by the Chiefs ahead of him on the list last year, even if it was the result of injuries.
No, he wasn't...
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:37 AM   #18
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Exactly... but for some reason, many Chiefs fans think Hali, Berry and even Carr are better right now.
When Flowers is healthy, he is arguably the best defender in the AFCW.

He is superb in coverage and is equally as effective in run support. He is also smart and well prepared. There are only two receivers (Jacoby Ford and Andre Johnson) that have gotten the best of him and one of them (Andre Johnson) got some lucky breaks by the refs to do so.

Thing is, for a little less than half of last year he wasn't healthy and his play dipped a little because of it.

He will likely be one of the top couple defenders on these lists next year if he can avoid the injury bug.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:38 AM   #19
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Flowers' consistency is unquestioned.

He's also as solid a tackler at corner as any in the league right now, and what he lacks in pure speed he makes up for with great natural instinct.

He is, however, more limited physically than the three players mentioned, and DJ still has untapped natural talent.

Those guys have higher ceilings, and should they put it all together, can be game changing playmakers.

Hali has touched that to some extent, but he is still learning and improving after his transition to OLB in this defense, and DJ finally started to show.

Carr has made strides in his two seasons, and Berry's upside is through the roof.
Flowers has reached, produced consistently at, and been very productive at his full potential as a CB.

No one, NO ONE else on this team (save a declining Waters) can say that...
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:38 AM   #20
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Thomas Jones was one of the NFL's very worst running backs last season. But he's better than Brandon Carr, who is a legit top-20 cornerback in the NFL?
It's the Bicep Effect. In any pickup game in any sport, the guy with big biceps will get picked earlier than he warrants.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:39 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post...n-the-afc-west


1. Philip Rivers, San Diego: He is an elite player at the most important position on the field.
2. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland: There’s a reason he’ll be the top prize in free agency.
3. Jamaal Charles, Kansas City: One of the NFL’s most dynamic young players.
4. Antonio Gates, San Diego: He should end up in Canton.
5. Tamba Hali, Kansas City: One of the NFL’s best defensive players.
6. Dwayne Bowe, Kansas City: He is a game-changing talent.
7.Richard Seymour, Oakland: Respected veteran changed Oakland’s defense.
8. Vincent Jackson, San Diego: Expect a strong rebound in 2011.
9. Ryan Clady, Denver: One of the game's premier left tackles.
10. Champ Bailey, Denver: Even at 33, he is special.
11. Eric Berry, Kansas City: He should be the game’s best safety soon.
12. Nick Hardwick, San Diego: An anchor to a strong offensive line.
13. Darren McFadden, Oakland: He is developing into a star.
=> 14. Matt Cassel, Kansas City: Cassel has to continue to make strides.
15. Zach Miller, Oakland: He can make Oakland’s offense special.
16. Derrick Johnson, Kansas City: He is a serious playmaker.
17. Quentin Jammer, San Diego: Solid veteran is an anchor to a good defense.
18. Kris Dielman, San Diego: A steady hand on the Chargers’ line.
19. D.J. Williams, Denver: He is a tackling machine.
20. Marcus McNeill, San Diego: He’s an upper-echelon left tackle.
21. Shaun Phillips, San Diego: He is one of the division’s best pass-rushers.
22. Brandon Flowers, Kansas City: One of the game’s best young cornerbacks.
23. Eric Weddle, San Diego: A hard-nosed playmaker at safety.
24. Glenn Dorsey, Kansas City: He came on strong in 2010.
25. Tommy Kelly, Oakland: Massive defensive tackle had a big season in 2010.
26. Elvis Dumervil, Denver: If Dumervil bounces back from sitting out in 2010, he should be ranked higher next year.
27. Rolando McClain, Oakland: McClain has a chance to be one of the division’s better linebackers.
28. Brandon Lloyd, Denver: Lloyd came out of nowhere for a special 2010.
29. Shane Lechler, Oakland: The game’s best kicking specialist.
30. Ryan Lilja, Kansas City: A gritty, tough veteran guard.
31. Malcom Floyd, San Diego: He can make the spectacular catch look easy.
32. Brian Waters, Kansas City: A great veteran presence on a good line.
33. Jason Campbell, Oakland: Oakland will be depending on Campbell a lot this season.
34. Kamerion Wimbley, Oakland: He can get sacks in bunches.
35. Tony Moeaki, Kansas City: Second-year tight end is a player to watch.
36. Lamarr Houston, Oakland: He has a chance to be special.
37. Antonio Garay, San Diego: He had a strong 2010 season at 31.
38. Ryan Mathews, San Diego: He showed flashes as a rookie.
39. Michael Bush, Oakland: He and McFadden form a nice tandem.
40. Thomas Jones, Kansas City: He can still help the Chiefs at 33.
my objective analysis (trying to remove homerism from the picture) of the chiefs on the list (and the ones NOT on the list)

ranked too low: brandon flowers and brandon carr (criminal that he's not on the list).

ranked too high: matt cassel (though he could go higher if he has another good year) and thomas jones (shouldn't BE on the list).

the rest are about right, really.

guys from other teams that I question... champ bailey, antonio gates (he's freaking injured too much to be that high), nick hardwick/kris dielman/marcus mcneill (all three are good, but not top 20 good), quentin jammer (way too high--solid doesn't=top 20), ryan clady (he's coming off of injury--be interesting to see if he comes back as good as when he was healthy), ryan mathews (what did he REALLY show as a rookie?!?)

there are others, but those are the only ones that pop out to me.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:42 AM   #22
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No, he wasn't...
Yes, he was.

We can keep doing this all day if you want.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:44 AM   #23
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Yes, he was.

We can keep doing this all day if you want.
Based on numbers (sacks, INT's, etc.) or production?

Passes defensed, times thrown at, etc?...
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:44 AM   #24
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No, he wasn't...
Let me get this straight: you're claiming that Jamaal Charles did NOT have a better season than Brandon Flowers?
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:46 AM   #25
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:46 AM   #26
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Didn't Dan Williams do that as well?...
Eric Hicks did...
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:47 AM   #27
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:47 AM   #28
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guys from other teams that I question... champ bailey, antonio gates (he's freaking injured too much to be that high), nick hardwick/kris dielman/marcus mcneill (all three are good, but not top 20 good), quentin jammer (way too high--solid doesn't=top 20), ryan clady (he's coming off of injury--be interesting to see if he comes back as good as when he was healthy), ryan mathews (what did he REALLY show as a rookie?!?)

there are others, but those are the only ones that pop out to me.

Whoa. I didn't even notice Ryan Mathews on the list, just like I never noticed Ryan Mathews during Chargers games.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:48 AM   #29
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Flowers has reached, produced consistently at, and been very productive at his full potential as a CB.

No one, NO ONE else on this team (save a declining Waters) can say that...
I am not saying that he hasn't.

I am simply pointing out that there's a lot of talent on this team that hasn't, and that's why there some disagreement.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:51 AM   #30
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