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Old 07-23-2011, 11:42 AM   #1
keg in kc keg in kc is offline
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No, he wasn't...
Yes, he was.

We can keep doing this all day if you want.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:44 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Yes, he was.

We can keep doing this all day if you want.
Based on numbers (sacks, INT's, etc.) or production?

Passes defensed, times thrown at, etc?...
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:01 PM   #3
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Based on numbers (sacks, INT's, etc.) or production?

Passes defensed, times thrown at, etc?...
Well, I was joking about going all day, but if you want an answer, I'd say that it's based on watching the games last season. His injuries clearly hobbled him. Carr appeared to be a better corner for most of the season, particularly in the second half of the year, which is why his complete absence from the list is curious. Flowers was not I thought, for the majority of the year, what he was the first couple of games. I don't disagree that he can be James Hasty, but the fact remains that once he got hurt, he just wasn't the same. Although I thought he was still very good.

And I don't think he's playing above his ability at all. He's exactly the player I thought he would be when they drafted him. Maybe in a perfect world he's an inch taller, but I think that's overblown. The guy's a football player. He was at Tech and he is here.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:09 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Well, I was joking about going all day, but if you want an answer, I'd say that it's based on watching the games last season. His injuries clearly hobbled him. Carr appeared to be a better corner for most of the season, particularly in the second half of the year, which is why his complete absence from the list is curious. Flowers was not I thought, for the majority of the year, what he was the first couple of games. I don't disagree that he can be James Hasty, but the fact remains that once he got hurt, he just wasn't the same. Although I thought he was still very good.

And I don't think he's playing above his ability at all. He's exactly the player I thought he would be when they drafted him. Maybe in a perfect world he's an inch taller, but I think that's overblown. The guy's a football player. He was at Tech and he is here.
Carr is a more talented player. He's gifted, but less......polished.

It reminds me a lot of the Hasty/Carter days.

Flowers doesn't have the strength or size of a Hasty but he plays that polished, mature role. Carr doesn't have the pure talent and limitless upside Carter had but he's got the bigger upside and unrealized potential.

This could be THAT KIND of secondary.

Berry has the talent to be better than any safety we've ever had. And we've had some damned good safeties.

All I'm saying is that, AS OF NOW, none are more valuable or polished than Flowers.

Flowers is a player NOW. Probowl contender NOW.
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Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:12 PM   #5
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All I'm saying is that, AS OF NOW, none are more valuable or polished than Flowers.

Flowers is a player NOW. Probowl contender NOW.
I was simply talking on-field performance last season. Flowers was not a better player then, not by midseason. I think the larger factor, as I mentioned, was Flowers being slowed by injury, but Carr made a great deal of progress.

If you ask me which one will be better in 2011, I would assume Flowers, if he's healthy.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:15 PM   #6
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I was simply talking on-field performance last season. Flowers was not a better player then, not by midseason. I think the larger factor, as I mentioned, was Flowers being slowed by injury, but Carr made a great deal of progress.

If you ask me which one will be better in 2011, I would assume Flowers, if he's healthy.
I love Flowers, but I hope not.

Carr does have more upside. I'd hope we could find a way to pull it out.

Even with the f'ed up offseason and perhaps non-preseason...
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Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
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Originally Posted by rico
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:13 PM   #7
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And I don't think he's playing above his ability at all. He's exactly the player I thought he would be when they drafted him. Maybe in a perfect world he's an inch taller, but I think that's overblown. The guy's a football player. He was at Tech and he is here.
I think he is playing above his scouted, perceived ability, just a little bit. He was pegged by scouts before the draft as a cover-2 specialist, as a guy who can be lockdown for 10-15 yards from the line of scrimmage. That's why he was available in the 2nd round, and likely why the Herm/Tampa 2 Chiefs took him. As evidenced by his marvelous play last season before he got hurt, Flowers has transcended that cover-2 specialist perception. He's capable of playing at a high level in a scheme that lots of scouts didn't see him playing in.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:16 PM   #8
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I think he is playing above his scouted, perceived ability, just a little bit. He was pegged by scouts before the draft as a cover-2 specialist, as a guy who can be lockdown for 10-15 yards from the line of scrimmage. That's why he was available in the 2nd round, and likely why the Herm/Tampa 2 Chiefs took him. As evidenced by his marvelous play last season before he got hurt, Flowers has transcended that cover-2 specialist perception. He's capable of playing at a high level in a scheme that lots of scouts didn't see him playing in.
Well, you know me and my opinion of 'draft experts'. I loved the pick at the time.

At least I think I did.
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