Re-Signing Brandon Carr: What Do You Do

[Direckshun]

There's about four more week of football ahead of us.

We've managed to wrap up Brandon Flowers during the season, Tamba Hali this offseason, DJ and Jamaal Charles last offseason...

This offseason, we have two very important players hitting free agency, and one franchise tag.

The tag goes to Bowe, no sweat. It's impossible to find franchise WRs, and when you have one, you must keep it. He's Top 10 at his position. Carr, for all his talent, is not. He's maybe top 25.

But what would you do if:

Carr (or, more likely, his agent) knows Carr is bound to be drastically overpaid on the free agent market, as young talent almost always is.

He knows the Chiefs desperately want Carr to stay on board. And the Chiefs have no leverage to keep him on board because their franchise tag is tied up with Bowe.

So knowing he has ALL the leverage in this situation, Carr opens big:

"I want 5 years, $50 million, $22 million guaranteed.

Just like my teammate, Brandon Flowers." (And other top flight corners like Johnathan Joseph, who got almost the exact same deal.)

You can haggle with Carr, but keep in mind, you're incredibly time-pressured, and Carr knows he has the leverage here. Even if you get him to come down, it's going to be nickels and dimes lower, not much else.

Do you (a.) sign Carr to a damn near identical deal to Brandon Flowers, or (b.)let Carr walk and just collect the 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick next year.

That's likely going to be our options at this point, folks.

Poll forthcoming.

[O.city]

Sign the dude. We have the money. Especially if we cut Cassel loose (doubtful). Cut the fat off this roster and bring in some young guys via draft/fa.

[lcarus]

Gotta sign him. Just remember Warfield and Bartee. Pull out the checkbook.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan

If Carr hurts our chance to upgrade a more important position, I'm against re-signing him.

I'm not.

Who's going to be a FA that deserves it more?...

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by lcarus

Gotta sign him. Just remember Warfield and Bartee. Pull out the checkbook.

THIS.

Or, more appropriately, think back to Hasty and Carter...

[Nightfyre]

I'd probably cap out any deal I gave Carr at 7/year and I'd try to front-load it.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

I'd probably cap out any deal I gave Carr at 7/year and I'd try to front-load it.

I doubt anyone his age would go 7 without getting sick numbers.

But a front-loaded 4 or 5 year deal would kick all kinds of ass...

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by -King-

Why would you want to set the baseline?

I'd rather sign Flowers first and set the ceiling than sign Carr first and set the baseline.
Posted via Mobile Device

Because Joseph set the market for Flowers and that market wasn't going to move.

By getting the cheaper guy signed first, you can still be coy as to the value you place on the position. You can go to Carr and say "we love having you on the squad, but this is approximately what the organization is willing to spend on its corners." He can cite the Joseph contract if he wants, but you can just make the argument that Texas was a desperate organization that overvalued the position, blah blah blah. Instead, they established that they're absolutely willing to give the CB position a massive deal. Combine that with their decision to wait out the season and eliminate the 'injury' risk that often drives a low-value long-term contract and the Chiefs have lost all leverage here.

Prior to the season, Carr was seen as the clear #2 whereas Flowers was seen as the Pro-Bowl snub. I thought that made Carr a wildly undervalued asset. As such, he should've been re-signed then. Instead, by signing Flowers first, establishing the 'team value' of the position then waiting so long that their asset is no longer undervalued and they no longer have any leverage, the Chiefs have really cost themselves a lot of money and cap space.

I actually think they'll let him walk at this point rather than deal with that mistake.

[DJ's left nut]

Ah - here was my pre-season statement on Flowers v. Carr:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...6&postcount=18

I'm fast approaching the point of overplaying my hand and saying he's one of the most underrated players in the AFC.

If I had the option of locking up Flowers or locking up Carr at 80% of what it would take to extend Flowers, I'd go with Carr without hesitating. In fact, with the way Carr played over the last 8 games of the season, I would not be surprised to see him become a better corner than Flowers over the next season or two.

Physically, Carr has much greater upside than Flowers. He's bigger, he's stronger, he's faster in a straight line, his first step is just as good and he's pretty much the same in and out of his cuts. Mentally, he's not quite at Flowers level, but he's growing in that regard by leaps and bounds each season. If he progresses next season like he did this year, he could absolutely pass Flowers.

Pioli really blew it with Carr, IMO.

[lcarus]

Originally Posted by Rausch

THIS.

Or, more appropriately, think back to Hasty and Carter...

Yeah. Best duo we've had since those guys. This defense is going to be really stout when we get Berry back. If Houston keeps progressing this nicely, we'll have a solid LB corps. Really the only thing we'll need is to upgrade the d-line and this defense will be BEAST.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan

I don't think most people care what he's paid. I think most only care about how our maximum cap money is distributed amongst the most important positions. If Carr hurts our chance to upgrade a more important position, I'm against re-signing him.

With the new cap standard the NFL has implaced with the players this offseason, draft picks wont cost teams big $$$ & that's going to affect much of the negotiations. More teams are going be able to re sign there own top dollar players that normally would walk. I don't think that there is going be as big of a market in free agency with teams getting the draft money set aside with the new players deal. This is going be a factor for many teams in how they aproach the offseason imo.

[Reerun_KC]

He is more solid and a better DB than flowers.. You dont let him walk...

[dallaschiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Who's going to be a FA that deserves it more?...

Nobody "deserves" anything. You decide what market price you're willing to pay. Plus, it's not about who's available on a current list somewhere. It's about giving yourself options in the distribution of your cap dollars based upon how you value of all the positions. This includes free agents, but also includes extending deals of other guys on the team as well as players that get cut or players you want the opportunity to trade for.

Ultimately, you value a position to a certain degree or you don't. It's a choice. In the Carter/Hasty days, CB was a HUGE deal for us. It's less so in our current defense compared to the safeties. Having said all that, I'd prefer to sign Carr. But not at any price. If we over-pay, I hope it's for fewer years and front-loaded, since that's where we have tons of cap space RIGHT NOW.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Because Joseph set the market for Flowers and that market wasn't going to move.

By getting the cheaper guy signed first, you can still be coy as to the value you place on the position. You can go to Carr and say "we love having you on the squad, but this is approximately what the organization is willing to spend on its corners." He can cite the Joseph contract if he wants, but you can just make the argument that Texas was a desperate organization that overvalued the position, blah blah blah. Instead, they established that they're absolutely willing to give the CB position a massive deal. Combine that with their decision to wait out the season and eliminate the 'injury' risk that often drives a low-value long-term contract and the Chiefs have lost all leverage here.

Prior to the season, Carr was seen as the clear #2 whereas Flowers was seen as the Pro-Bowl snub. I thought that made Carr a wildly undervalued asset. As such, he should've been re-signed then. Instead, by signing Flowers first, establishing the 'team value' of the position then waiting so long that their asset is no longer undervalued and they no longer have any leverage, the Chiefs have really cost themselves a lot of money and cap space.

I actually think they'll let him walk at this point rather than deal with that mistake.

Spot on.

Very, very well said.

[Chiefnj2]

There's 2.5 million that could have gone to Carr instead of being flushed down the crapper with a flea flicker.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Congratulations. You're paying your starting corners $100 million dollars.

Neither of them is All Pro. And one of them isn't even a Pro Bowler.

Who gives a ****? We have all sorts of money. Particularly if we dump Cassel.

If I'm GM I do it.

We finally got good players in a few positions. We keep them.