Chiefs Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise - Page 9

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 06:29 PM

Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections.

This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle.

What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning.

1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed.

2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one.

3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki.

4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone.

5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep.

6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake.

Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players.

Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach.

New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play.

Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.

aturnis · 12-12-2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Yep, most coaches would want to hire their own staff.

Which is exactly why a Pioli-puppet like Crennel, McD or Ferentz will get the job.

Ferentz would not be Pioli's puppet. Might he be willing to coach with a lot of the very good coaching staff that is here, including his old compadre Romeo? Sure. Ferentz would not come without complete control over his staff and probably a good bit of control in the player acquisition process.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 10:07 PM

I just realized this D is actually 15th in yards.

That's not horrible at all.

Anyone suggesting we need to blow up that side...no.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Ravens and Jets run a 2-gap 3-4?

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-12-2011, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

I just realized this D is actually 15th in yards.

That's not horrible at all.

Anyone suggesting we need to blow up that side...no.

If only games were decided by yards and not points.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

I just realized this D is actually 15th in yards.

That's not horrible at all.

Anyone suggesting we need to blow up that side...no.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Ravens and Jets run a 2-gap 3-4?

I don't think we need to blow it up. I think we need to get some good D-lineman, particularly NT and attack a lot more. We are more successfull if we attack. Even against the Jets we stopped then 3 straight times after their opening drive and all the offense gave them for it was 3 points.

aturnis · 12-12-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

The receivers didn't the last month.

Source? Haven't read that one anywhere yet...

Ebolapox · 12-12-2011, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

FWIW, I'm not advocating one or the other.

I'm just sick of forcing schemes on coaches, or eliminating coaches based on scheme.

Hire the BEST coach.

the best coach will scheme around your best players. have the personnel (aside from NT) for a good 3-4 defense? YOU ****ING RUN THE 3-4 DEFENSE (maybe a bit more attacking, hopefully)

Chiefs=Champions · 12-12-2011, 10:41 PM

Anyone whos advocating going to the 4-3 is a moron. We have all the pieces in place, except a healthy safety and a young dominant nose tackle.

If youre worried about being handcuffed to a scheme, then hopefully the next coach we hire will be one who will look at the players we have and build a scheme based on them.

He would have to be Haley dumb, to swap to the 4-3.

Chiefs=Champions · 12-12-2011, 10:44 PM

This team is about 2 players away from being a perennial division winner.

1. QB

(Huge gap in importance)

2. Nose tackle.

Lets just hope to based god, that our next coach is willing to cut ties with Matt and draft one in the first.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

If only games were decided by yards and not points.

Our ppg looks bad because of the offense, turnovers and the first two games.

munkey · 12-12-2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good

This team is about 2 players away from being a perennial division winner.

1. QB

(Huge gap in importance)

2. Nose tackle.

Lets just hope to based god, that our next coach is willingly to cut ties with Matt and draft one in the first.

DING DING...we have a winna...

HonestChieffan · 12-12-2011, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Ferentz would not be Pioli's puppet. Might he be willing to coach with a lot of the very good coaching staff that is here, including his old compadre Romeo? Sure. Ferentz would not come without complete control over his staff and probably a good bit of control in the player acquisition process.

I hope you are right. Some never been a NFL HC College guy making demands like he just won his third Super Bowl will get to stay in Iowa Freaking City and we wont be subject to another low ball experience builder program. God save us from that fate.

NJChiefsFan · 12-13-2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

I just realized this D is actually 15th in yards.

That's not horrible at all.

Anyone suggesting we need to blow up that side...no.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Ravens and Jets run a 2-gap 3-4?

We are a healthy Berry and NT away from being a really really good defense.

Hell, get a QB that can let the offense keep the ball and get Berry back and its a great defense IMO.

Its no secret to anybody that a QB and NT make this team serious contenders. Especially with the AFC not showing to be elite at the moment.

Rasputin · 12-13-2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini

Letting Waters go was not a mistake.

Bringing back Wiegmann was.

ChiefFripp · 12-13-2011, 06:51 PM

I'm not sure why anyone would say drafting Mcluster was a mistake. HE is one of the few players who isn't going to give up ala Bowe.

Hammock Parties · 12-13-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefFripp

I'm not sure why anyone would say drafting Mcluster was a mistake. HE is one of the few players who isn't going to give up ala Bowe.

Because he sucks and there were much better players available.

12-12-2011, 06:29 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1055873	Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections. This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle. What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning. 1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed. 2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one. 3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki. 4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone. 5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep. 6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake. Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players. Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach. New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play. Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.
Posts: 132,453

12-12-2011, 10:07 PM	#122
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $850478	I just realized this D is actually 15th in yards. That's not horrible at all. Anyone suggesting we need to blow up that side...no. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Ravens and Jets run a 2-gap 3-4? __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,281

12-12-2011, 10:41 PM	#127
Chiefs=Champions Training Camp Hero Join Date: Oct 2006 Casino cash: $7984801	Anyone whos advocating going to the 4-3 is a moron. We have all the pieces in place, except a healthy safety and a young dominant nose tackle. If youre worried about being handcuffed to a scheme, then hopefully the next coach we hire will be one who will look at the players we have and build a scheme based on them. He would have to be Haley dumb, to swap to the 4-3.
Posts: 6,001

12-12-2011, 10:44 PM	#128
Chiefs=Champions Training Camp Hero Join Date: Oct 2006 Casino cash: $7984801	This team is about 2 players away from being a perennial division winner. 1. QB (Huge gap in importance) 2. Nose tackle. Lets just hope to based god, that our next coach is willing to cut ties with Matt and draft one in the first. Last edited by Chiefs=Champions; 12-12-2011 at 11:06 PM..
Posts: 6,001

12-13-2011, 06:51 PM	#134
ChiefFripp Veteran Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: KC Casino cash: $10004900	I'm not sure why anyone would say drafting Mcluster was a mistake. HE is one of the few players who isn't going to give up ala Bowe.
Posts: 2,579

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