Chiefs Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise - Page 7

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 06:29 PM

Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections.

This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle.

What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning.

1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed.

2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one.

3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki.

4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone.

5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep.

6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake.

Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players.

Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach.

New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play.

Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.

O.city · 12-12-2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Jackson is a left in a 4-3, and a two-down player at that. Basically, exactly what he is in this scheme. I don't think that talent evaluators were wrong when they said that Dorsey could play the three technique, but when your job is to occupy and scrape, you aren't going to be shooting gaps.

I still think that this team would do well to be a little more exotic in passing situations. Move Dorsey and Gilberry inside, and rush Houston and Hali off the edges.

I tend to agree more with this.

We actually have guys who are pretty versatile. Move them around.

O.city · 12-12-2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Well there are many things the chiefs need to do to right the ship

1. Get a good experienced HC....someone who knows how to treat its players and knows how to operate a team and prepare for Sundays.

2. Get healthy

3. QB (get a good backup too, Orton prob won't be here next season)

4. OL + depth

5. DL + depth

6. Safety depth

CUTS: Richardson, Jereme Urban, McGraw, Piscatelli, OConnell, Pope, Cassel, Palko, Weigman, Greenwood, Langford, D.Williams

I'd say this would be a pretty good start.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Jackson is a left in a 4-3, and a two-down player at that. Basically, exactly what he is in this scheme. I don't think that talent evaluators were wrong when they said that Dorsey could play the three technique, but when your job is to occupy and scrape, you aren't going to be shooting gaps.

I still think that this team would do well to be a little more exotic in passing situations. Move Dorsey and Gilberry inside, and rush Houston and Hali off the edges.

I agree with this. Seems when we had Cower as a DC and even Adolph and Gunther we just blitzed so much more. Having good bump-run corners helps that a lot and we had some great corners and safteys.

I want that back. I want to get the corners up in a guys face and knock him around coming off the ball while everyone else is going for a QB lunch. You get in those 3rd and longs and QB's just don't have time to throw the ball 20 yards down field.

O.city · 12-12-2011, 08:07 PM

I know it seems really dark righ tnow as a Chiefs fan with the peckerhead we have at GM, but this team isn't as far away as one might think.

It really all depends on his decision about Cassel. It could determine the way of this franchise for 10 years down the road.

If he were to go qb in the first and that guy actually turned out to be the guy, we are a true fan draft the rest of the way out from putting a really good team out there on sunday. THis is also considering we get healthy.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 08:10 PM

Here's what happens if we switch to a 4-3:

Jackson gets pushed around at DT.

Dorsey continues to 2-gap.

Hali is probably not as effective.

We are left holding our dicks looking for two outside linebackers, hoping that DJ can play the middle in a 4-3.

Sounds like a recipe for a bottom 10 defense.

And THIS defense, two games ago, was shitting on Ben Roethlisberger.

Yeah, no.

aturnis · 12-12-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Well there are many things the chiefs need to do to right the ship

1. Get a good experienced HC....someone who knows how to treat its players and knows how to operate a team and prepare for Sundays.

2. Get healthy

3. QB (get a good backup too, Orton prob won't be here next season)

4. OL + depth

5. DL + depth

6. Safety depth

CUTS: Richardson, Jereme Urban, McGraw, Piscatelli, OConnell, Pope, Cassel, Palko, Weigman, Greenwood, Langford, D.Williams

These players LOVE Haley.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I tend to agree more with this.

We actually have guys who are pretty versatile. Move them around.

I still have memories of the 96 defense basically putting 10 men up on the line and setting the tone. I mean we would line everyone up on the line and the offense knew we were bringing it. And the philosophy was simple....rush the QB and tackle the RB on the way if they hand it to him.

It was intimidating. Think back to the 49rs game when we raped Steve Young. He had that scared look in his eyes after the first sack which I think was like their 2nd or 3rd play from scrimmage.

I want that back. I want that mauling defense back where it didn't matter where you lined up on the line you were going to knock the **** out of the guy in front of you whether he was a lineman, TE or WR. Whoever it was was not going to come off that line clean and easy and the QB knew he was not going to get away with some 7 step drop and a 20 yard pass without getting his ass stomped.

aturnis · 12-12-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Here's what happens if we switch to a 4-3:

Jackson gets pushed around at DT.

Dorsey continues to 2-gap.

Hali is probably not as effective.

We are left holding our dicks looking for two outside linebackers, hoping that DJ can play the middle in a 4-3.

Sounds like a recipe for a bottom 10 defense.

And THIS defense, two games ago, was shitting on Ben Roethlisberger.

Yeah, no.

Agreed. No reason whatsoever to switch to a 4-3. Bad move.

whoman69 · 12-12-2011, 08:14 PM

We should be looking to draft from schools that run the 3-4 for the front seven, especially so for the line. I know occassionally you can project a lighter end to play LB in the 3-4, but very rarely are 4-3 lineman able to play line in a 3-4.

Georgia, Georgia Tech, Houston, Notre Dame, Stanford, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Alabama, Air Force, Army, Navy, BYU, California and SMU

Take the guesswork out.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

These players LOVE Haley.

The receivers didn't the last month.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Agreed. No reason whatsoever to switch to a 4-3. Bad move.

I am not saying we should swtich to a 4-3. I prefer a 3-4. I think it is more confusing for an offense and is a much more aggresive scheme. My point was, however badly stated, that if we are going to continue to draft 4-3 players on the line then you might as well switch to a 4-3. And to a lesser degree if we are going to run this soft zone crap then switch to a 4-3. If you're going to run a 3-4 then let the players lace em' up and have at it.

DJ is a beast on the blitz. He almost always gets pressure that alters the play. But we need safetys and another LB that can cover TE's over the middle so you can blitz DJ more.

O.city · 12-12-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

I still have memories of the 96 defense basically putting 10 men up on the line and setting the tone. I mean we would line everyone up on the line and the offense knew we were bringing it. And the philosophy was simple....rush the QB and tackle the RB on the way if they hand it to him.

It was intimidating. Think back to the 49rs game when we raped Steve Young. He had that scared look in his eyes after the first sack which I think was like their 2nd or 3rd play from scrimmage.

I want that back. I want that mauling defense back where it didn't matter where you lined up on the line you were going to knock the **** out of the guy in front of you whether he was a lineman, TE or WR. Whoever it was was not going to come off that line clean and easy and the QB knew he was not going to get away with some 7 step drop and a 20 yard pass without getting his ass stomped.

Well man I think the times of defenses like that are over. I think we could be more aggressive like we were in the Steeler and first half pats game tho and be very successful.

It's been stated before , but Berry really brings this defense together.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

We should be looking to draft from schools that run the 3-4 for the front seven, especially so for the line. I know occassionally you can project a lighter end to play LB in the 3-4, but very rarely are 4-3 lineman able to play line in a 3-4.

Georgia, Georgia Tech, Houston, Notre Dame, Stanford, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Alabama, Air Force, Army, Navy, BYU, California and SMU

Take the guesswork out.

Dat

is

muh

point!

Well said.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-12-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Agreed. No reason whatsoever to switch to a 4-3. Bad move.

The bad move is hiring a coach and forcing him into a scheme he doesn't believe in, or limiting your coaching search to guys that only run the 34.

Hire the best coach, and let HIM dictate what scheme you run.

If that means a switch to the 43, so ****ing be it.

Hiring a less qualified coach just because he's willing to run a 34 is just as big a mistake.

O.city · 12-12-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

I am not saying we should swtich to a 4-3. I prefer a 3-4. I think it is more confusing for an offense and is a much more aggresive scheme. My point was, however badly stated, that if we are going to continue to draft 4-3 players on the line then you might as well switch to a 4-3. And to a lesser degree if we are going to run this soft zone crap then switch to a 4-3. If you're going to run a 3-4 then let the players lace em' up and have at it.

DJ is a beast on the blitz. He almost always gets pressure that alters the play. But we need safetys and another LB that can cover TE's over the middle so you can blitz DJ more.

I'd like to see some safety depth, but you have to remember next year we will hopefully be getting an all pro back at safety.

12-12-2011, 06:29 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1055873	Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections. This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle. What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning. 1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed. 2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one. 3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki. 4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone. 5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep. 6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake. Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players. Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach. New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play. Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.
Posts: 132,453

12-12-2011, 08:07 PM	#94
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-685936	I know it seems really dark righ tnow as a Chiefs fan with the peckerhead we have at GM, but this team isn't as far away as one might think. It really all depends on his decision about Cassel. It could determine the way of this franchise for 10 years down the road. If he were to go qb in the first and that guy actually turned out to be the guy, we are a true fan draft the rest of the way out from putting a really good team out there on sunday. THis is also considering we get healthy.
Posts: 84,209

12-12-2011, 08:10 PM	#95
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $850478	Here's what happens if we switch to a 4-3: Jackson gets pushed around at DT. Dorsey continues to 2-gap. Hali is probably not as effective. We are left holding our dicks looking for two outside linebackers, hoping that DJ can play the middle in a 4-3. Sounds like a recipe for a bottom 10 defense. And THIS defense, two games ago, was shitting on Ben Roethlisberger. Yeah, no. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,281