Scott Wright Savages the Chiefs

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

...yeah, if you fail, you try again. The Jets didn't have Super Bowl caliber QB, they didn't a few days ago, and now they're trying again with Geno Smith. The Chiefs, OTOH, didn't have a SB caliber QB, they didn't a few days ago, and they don't now. Which is worse?

Drafting a QB in round one and missing was much worse, historically. With the new CBA and the lower salaries, that may even things out a bit. Still, taking first and second round fliers on guys you don't think are the guy just to say you tried is always going to be a really stupid idea. SNR seems genetically incapable of wrapping his brain around that.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Drafting a QB in round one and missing was much worse, historically. With the new CBA and the lower salaries, that may even things out a bit. Still, taking fliers on guys you don't think are the guy just to say you tried is always going to be a really stupid idea. SNR seems genetically incapable of wrapping his brain around that.

So for 30 years the Chiefs haven't felt that any quarterback in the first round was "the guy"? How much success have the Chiefs had with their pattened Retread Quarterback Approach have they had, again?

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Drafting a QB in round one and missing was much worse, historically. With the new CBA and the lower salaries, that may even things out a bit. Still, taking first and second round fliers on guys you don't think are the guy just to say you tried is always going to be a really stupid idea. SNR seems genetically incapable of wrapping his brain around that.

The position is just that important these days. I agree to some extent... you don't take someone if you really, truly believe they won't be successful in the NFL or in your system... you don't try for the sake of trying. And maybe this was the one year the Chiefs are right in just making the safe move and picking up a retread and undrafted QB... maybe this regime actually has it right and has a plan, blah blah... but, they couldn't even make a stretch at #63 or #96 or #99, etc.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

The position is just that important these days. I agree to some extent... you don't take someone if you really, truly believe they won't be successful in the NFL or in your system... you don't try for the sake of trying. And maybe this was the one year the Chiefs are right in just making the safe move and picking up a retread and undrafted QB... maybe this regime actually has it right and has a plan, blah blah... but, they couldn't even make a stretch at #63 or #96 or #99, etc.

Ah well. They lucked into Bray this year.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

The position is just that important these days. I agree to some extent... you don't take someone if you really, truly believe they won't be successful in the NFL or in your system... you don't try for the sake of trying. And maybe this was the one year the Chiefs are right in just making the safe move and picking up a retread and undrafted QB... maybe this regime actually has it right and has a plan, blah blah... but, they couldn't even make a stretch at #63 or #96 or #99, etc.

The QB class sucked as prospects. This was being said for months. The GMs around the league clearly believed that, because QBs went very late in this draft, not early. Hell, when a team did pick a QB (Manuel), this board mocked them for taking the player.

If it's all about just trying to get the QB, the Jets would be rolling in Super Bowls. They haven't won shit since Namath, but they've drafted Todd, O'Brien, Pennington, Sanchez and Hobart (supplemental, never played for them) in the first round, along with Clemens, Nagle and Woodall in the second. For all the crying around here about not taking QBs in the first, KC has won a Super Bowl more recently than that dumpster fire of a team.

QB is important. Hell, it's critical. But pissing away picks on players you don't believe in is just bad management.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The QB class sucked as prospects. This was being said for months. The GMs around the league clearly believed that, because QBs went very late in this draft, not early. Hell, when a team did pick a QB (Manuel), this board mocked them for taking the player.

If it's all about just trying to get the QB, the Jets would be rolling in Super Bowls. They haven't won shit since Namath, but they've drafted Todd, O'Brien, Pennington, Sanchez and Hobart (supplemental, never played for them) in the first round, along with Clemens, Nagle and Woodall in the second. For all the crying around here about not taking QBs in the first, KC has won a Super Bowl more recently than that dumpster fire of a team.

QB is important. Hell, it's critical. But pissing away picks on players you don't believe in is just bad management.

They had 10 playoff appearances with those picks, but that's not even the argument (not to mention the league has changed dramatically... it's so much more about the QB these days). The argument isn't "drafting QBs early guarantees playoff/SB success"... it's that (again, these days) having an elite QB is pretty much a prerequisite for playoff success.

Yes, the draft is kind of a crapshoot, first round draft picks fail, and proven QBs fail. You're arguing that drafting a QB in the early rounds doesn't guarantee success, which is true, while we're arguing that not concentrating on the QB position pretty much guarantees failure, which is also true.

Yes, the Jets and Chiefs have failed in different ways, but the Jets will one day find the right QB who can take them deep into the playoffs, while the Chiefs will be drafting OTs and signing retread QBs and wondering why they can't get beyond 10-6 seasons and maybe a single playoff win for any given season.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

They had 10 playoff appearances with those picks, but that's not even the argument (not to mention the league has changed dramatically... it's so much more about the QB these days). The argument isn't "drafting QBs early guarantees playoff/SB success"... it's that (again, these days) having an elite QB is pretty much a prerequisite for playoff success.

If you want to argue that having an elite, or at least a high end, QB is very important to being a true and consistent contender, I'm 100% in agreement with that.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yes, the draft is kind of a crapshoot, first round draft picks fail, and proven QBs fail. You're arguing that drafting a QB in the early rounds doesn't guarantee success, which is true, while we're arguing that not concentrating on the QB position pretty much guarantees failure, which is also true.

But that's not what people like SNR are arguing. They are arguing that you need to draft the QB in round one (but only if it's a QB that they actually like).

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yes, the Jets and Chiefs have failed in different ways, but the Jets will one day find the right QB who can take them deep into the playoffs, while the Chiefs will be drafting OTs and signing retread QBs and wondering why they can't get beyond 10-6 seasons and maybe a single playoff win for any given season.

It takes more than just a QB, and even a stiff like Rex Grossman (First round pick!) can get a team to the Super Bowl if you put a good enough team around them.

I feel bad for a lot of Chiefs fans. They'd have a pair of really crappy seasons in the wrong years. Taking crappy QBs just so you can say you took a QB isn't the solution.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

It takes more than just a QB, and even a stiff like Rex Grossman (First round pick!) can get a team to the Super Bowl if you put a good enough team around them.

I feel bad for a lot of Chiefs fans. They'd have a pair of really crappy seasons in the wrong years. Taking crappy QBs just so you can say you took a QB isn't the solution.

Sure, but it's like trying to win a Stanley Cup without good goaltending and defense... it happens, but you have to be truly elite in another phase of the game... like the Bears were on defense. You can hide a bad offensive line with one guy (Aaron Rodgers, for starters), you can hide an entire defense with (practically) one guy in the right system... if you want to hide one bad QB, you better make up for it with your entire defense or several offensive positions.

And for the few guys you mentioned, there were several more passed up in the first few rounds... sure, a lot of teams struck out. Elite QBs don't grow on trees... but if you expand your list to include the first 3 rounds, there are some pretty good QBs that were passed up. I'm not arguing your point vs SNR as far as first round QBs, just reiterating the point that it would be nice if they tried something beyond retread and #100+ picks (too bad Croyle didn't work out... he was their one shot at greatness ).

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Sure, but it's like trying to win a Stanley Cup without good goaltending and defense... it happens, but you have to be truly elite in another phase of the game... like the Bears were on defense. You can hide a bad offensive line with one guy (Aaron Rodgers, for starters), you can hide an entire defense with (practically) one guy in the right system... if you want to hide one bad QB, you better make up for it with your entire defense or several offensive positions.

And for the few guys you mentioned, there were several more passed up in the first few rounds... sure, a lot of teams struck out. Elite QBs don't grow on trees... but if you expand your list to include the first 3 rounds, there are some pretty good QBs that were passed up. I'm not arguing your point vs SNR as far as first round QBs, just reiterating the point that it would be nice if they tried something beyond retread and #100+ picks (too bad Croyle didn't work out... he was their one shot at greatness ).

I hear what you're saying, and I'm sure it's frustrating as hell that the team's been an afterthought for as long as it has. But spending weeks or months on "GENO!!!!' (or Sanchez in 2009) when the kid's were significantly flawed prospects, and shitting all over the organization because they don't pick those kids is stupid. Teams who need QBs and see one at #1 aren't trading out if they like the QB, so that leaves only sitting at #1 or being bad in a year with multiple good QB prospects. Since 2005, the only arguable players of that level have been

Rodgers - huge miss, but by a lot of teams. The Tedford angle and his throwing mechanics scared teams away.

Culter - (No, really, SNR listed Cutler)

Ryan - Here's the big one with a relatively easy trade up to #1 or #2 in terms of value, but that wasn't under either Pioli or Reid.

In 2012, the Redskins just weren't going to be beaten out in terms of offers for the #2 spot and RGIII, and you're welcome to think Tannehill's a top guy, but I'm not on that bandwagon.

If people want to be pissed about missed QB opportunities, 2008 makes sense, but 2009-2013 don't.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Drafting a QB in round one and missing was much worse, historically. With the new CBA and the lower salaries, that may even things out a bit. Still, taking first and second round fliers on guys you don't think are the guy just to say you tried is always going to be a really stupid idea. SNR seems genetically incapable of wrapping his brain around that.

Joe Flacco wasn't the best player on the board.

Ryan Tannehill wasn't the best player on the board.

Same goes for Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick.

For every JP Losman there's a Jay Cutler. For every Blaine Gabbert there's a Matt Ryan.

That's what YOU don't ****ing get. It's not that I can't understand the point you're trying to make. In fact, I understand it perfectly. I just think it's utter bullshit. Because of the many, many, many reasons that have been exhaustively discussed on this message board since Trent Green was looking long in the tooth.

[philfree]

Originally Posted by SNR

Joe Flacco wasn't the best player on the board.

Ryan Tannehill wasn't the best player on the board.

Same goes for Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick.

For every JP Losman there's a Jay Cutler. For every Blaine Gabbert there's a Matt Ryan.

That's what YOU don't ****ing get. It's not that I can't understand the point you're trying to make. In fact, I understand it perfectly. I just think it's utter bullshit. Because of the many, many, many reasons that have been exhaustively discussed on this message board since Trent Green was looking long in the tooth.

Who's board? Yours? LOL We've seen how that works out.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by philfree

Who's board? Yours? LOL We've seen how that works out.

No, we actually haven't.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by philfree

Who's board? Yours? LOL We've seen how that works out.

Joe Flacco the presumed 2nd round pick went in the middle of the 1st.

Yeah, I'll bet he was at the top of the Ravens' draft board. Not at all like they were trying to fill a need. Nope. That small school guy with the occasional accuracy issue and a handful of glaring bad losses to terrible schools in his shit conference was absolutely the right QB for that spot. In a world where you should only take sure things at QB in the first round, the Ravens totally made the right call in drafting Joe "Sure thing" Flacco out of football powerhouse University of Delaware.

Yup. That's exactly what happened. Top o' the board. BPA.

Boy, if only the Chiefs had the kind of luck the Ravens had in being able to draft sure thing QBs in the middle of the first round who also happened to be the BPA on their draft boards.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by SNR

Joe Flacco wasn't the best player on the board.

Ryan Tannehill wasn't the best player on the board.

Same goes for Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick.

For every JP Losman there's a Jay Cutler. For every Blaine Gabbert there's a Matt Ryan.

That's what YOU don't ****ing get. It's not that I can't understand the point you're trying to make. In fact, I understand it perfectly. I just think it's utter bullshit. Because of the many, many, many reasons that have been exhaustively discussed on this message board since Trent Green was looking long in the tooth.

U mad bro?

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

U mad bro?

I am. Just Passin' By is infuriating to talk to about QBs.

Fans of other teams should have to endure exactly what the Chiefs have gone through at the QB position since 1983 before they think they know what's best for our franchise.