Scott Wright Savages the Chiefs

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Drafting a QB in round one and missing was much worse, historically. With the new CBA and the lower salaries, that may even things out a bit. Still, taking first and second round fliers on guys you don't think are the guy just to say you tried is always going to be a really stupid idea. SNR seems genetically incapable of wrapping his brain around that.

The position is just that important these days. I agree to some extent... you don't take someone if you really, truly believe they won't be successful in the NFL or in your system... you don't try for the sake of trying. And maybe this was the one year the Chiefs are right in just making the safe move and picking up a retread and undrafted QB... maybe this regime actually has it right and has a plan, blah blah... but, they couldn't even make a stretch at #63 or #96 or #99, etc.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

The position is just that important these days. I agree to some extent... you don't take someone if you really, truly believe they won't be successful in the NFL or in your system... you don't try for the sake of trying. And maybe this was the one year the Chiefs are right in just making the safe move and picking up a retread and undrafted QB... maybe this regime actually has it right and has a plan, blah blah... but, they couldn't even make a stretch at #63 or #96 or #99, etc.

Ah well. They lucked into Bray this year.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

The position is just that important these days. I agree to some extent... you don't take someone if you really, truly believe they won't be successful in the NFL or in your system... you don't try for the sake of trying. And maybe this was the one year the Chiefs are right in just making the safe move and picking up a retread and undrafted QB... maybe this regime actually has it right and has a plan, blah blah... but, they couldn't even make a stretch at #63 or #96 or #99, etc.

The QB class sucked as prospects. This was being said for months. The GMs around the league clearly believed that, because QBs went very late in this draft, not early. Hell, when a team did pick a QB (Manuel), this board mocked them for taking the player.

If it's all about just trying to get the QB, the Jets would be rolling in Super Bowls. They haven't won shit since Namath, but they've drafted Todd, O'Brien, Pennington, Sanchez and Hobart (supplemental, never played for them) in the first round, along with Clemens, Nagle and Woodall in the second. For all the crying around here about not taking QBs in the first, KC has won a Super Bowl more recently than that dumpster fire of a team.

QB is important. Hell, it's critical. But pissing away picks on players you don't believe in is just bad management.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The QB class sucked as prospects. This was being said for months. The GMs around the league clearly believed that, because QBs went very late in this draft, not early. Hell, when a team did pick a QB (Manuel), this board mocked them for taking the player.

If it's all about just trying to get the QB, the Jets would be rolling in Super Bowls. They haven't won shit since Namath, but they've drafted Todd, O'Brien, Pennington, Sanchez and Hobart (supplemental, never played for them) in the first round, along with Clemens, Nagle and Woodall in the second. For all the crying around here about not taking QBs in the first, KC has won a Super Bowl more recently than that dumpster fire of a team.

QB is important. Hell, it's critical. But pissing away picks on players you don't believe in is just bad management.

They had 10 playoff appearances with those picks, but that's not even the argument (not to mention the league has changed dramatically... it's so much more about the QB these days). The argument isn't "drafting QBs early guarantees playoff/SB success"... it's that (again, these days) having an elite QB is pretty much a prerequisite for playoff success.

Yes, the draft is kind of a crapshoot, first round draft picks fail, and proven QBs fail. You're arguing that drafting a QB in the early rounds doesn't guarantee success, which is true, while we're arguing that not concentrating on the QB position pretty much guarantees failure, which is also true.

Yes, the Jets and Chiefs have failed in different ways, but the Jets will one day find the right QB who can take them deep into the playoffs, while the Chiefs will be drafting OTs and signing retread QBs and wondering why they can't get beyond 10-6 seasons and maybe a single playoff win for any given season.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

They had 10 playoff appearances with those picks, but that's not even the argument (not to mention the league has changed dramatically... it's so much more about the QB these days). The argument isn't "drafting QBs early guarantees playoff/SB success"... it's that (again, these days) having an elite QB is pretty much a prerequisite for playoff success.

If you want to argue that having an elite, or at least a high end, QB is very important to being a true and consistent contender, I'm 100% in agreement with that.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yes, the draft is kind of a crapshoot, first round draft picks fail, and proven QBs fail. You're arguing that drafting a QB in the early rounds doesn't guarantee success, which is true, while we're arguing that not concentrating on the QB position pretty much guarantees failure, which is also true.

But that's not what people like SNR are arguing. They are arguing that you need to draft the QB in round one (but only if it's a QB that they actually like).

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yes, the Jets and Chiefs have failed in different ways, but the Jets will one day find the right QB who can take them deep into the playoffs, while the Chiefs will be drafting OTs and signing retread QBs and wondering why they can't get beyond 10-6 seasons and maybe a single playoff win for any given season.

It takes more than just a QB, and even a stiff like Rex Grossman (First round pick!) can get a team to the Super Bowl if you put a good enough team around them.

I feel bad for a lot of Chiefs fans. They'd have a pair of really crappy seasons in the wrong years. Taking crappy QBs just so you can say you took a QB isn't the solution.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

It takes more than just a QB, and even a stiff like Rex Grossman (First round pick!) can get a team to the Super Bowl if you put a good enough team around them.

I feel bad for a lot of Chiefs fans. They'd have a pair of really crappy seasons in the wrong years. Taking crappy QBs just so you can say you took a QB isn't the solution.

Sure, but it's like trying to win a Stanley Cup without good goaltending and defense... it happens, but you have to be truly elite in another phase of the game... like the Bears were on defense. You can hide a bad offensive line with one guy (Aaron Rodgers, for starters), you can hide an entire defense with (practically) one guy in the right system... if you want to hide one bad QB, you better make up for it with your entire defense or several offensive positions.

And for the few guys you mentioned, there were several more passed up in the first few rounds... sure, a lot of teams struck out. Elite QBs don't grow on trees... but if you expand your list to include the first 3 rounds, there are some pretty good QBs that were passed up. I'm not arguing your point vs SNR as far as first round QBs, just reiterating the point that it would be nice if they tried something beyond retread and #100+ picks (too bad Croyle didn't work out... he was their one shot at greatness ).

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Sure, but it's like trying to win a Stanley Cup without good goaltending and defense... it happens, but you have to be truly elite in another phase of the game... like the Bears were on defense. You can hide a bad offensive line with one guy (Aaron Rodgers, for starters), you can hide an entire defense with (practically) one guy in the right system... if you want to hide one bad QB, you better make up for it with your entire defense or several offensive positions.

And for the few guys you mentioned, there were several more passed up in the first few rounds... sure, a lot of teams struck out. Elite QBs don't grow on trees... but if you expand your list to include the first 3 rounds, there are some pretty good QBs that were passed up. I'm not arguing your point vs SNR as far as first round QBs, just reiterating the point that it would be nice if they tried something beyond retread and #100+ picks (too bad Croyle didn't work out... he was their one shot at greatness ).

I hear what you're saying, and I'm sure it's frustrating as hell that the team's been an afterthought for as long as it has. But spending weeks or months on "GENO!!!!' (or Sanchez in 2009) when the kid's were significantly flawed prospects, and shitting all over the organization because they don't pick those kids is stupid. Teams who need QBs and see one at #1 aren't trading out if they like the QB, so that leaves only sitting at #1 or being bad in a year with multiple good QB prospects. Since 2005, the only arguable players of that level have been

Rodgers - huge miss, but by a lot of teams. The Tedford angle and his throwing mechanics scared teams away.

Culter - (No, really, SNR listed Cutler)

Ryan - Here's the big one with a relatively easy trade up to #1 or #2 in terms of value, but that wasn't under either Pioli or Reid.

In 2012, the Redskins just weren't going to be beaten out in terms of offers for the #2 spot and RGIII, and you're welcome to think Tannehill's a top guy, but I'm not on that bandwagon.

If people want to be pissed about missed QB opportunities, 2008 makes sense, but 2009-2013 don't.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

I hear what you're saying, and I'm sure it's frustrating as hell that the team's been an afterthought for as long as it has. But spending weeks or months on "GENO!!!!' (or Sanchez in 2009) when the kid's were significantly flawed prospects, and shitting all over the organization because they don't pick those kids is stupid. Teams who need QBs and see one at #1 aren't trading out if they like the QB, so that leaves only sitting at #1 or being bad in a year with multiple good QB prospects. Since 2005, the only arguable players of that level have been

Rodgers - huge miss, but by a lot of teams. The Tedford angle and his throwing mechanics scared teams away.

Culter - (No, really, SNR listed Cutler)

Ryan - Here's the big one with a relatively easy trade up to #1 or #2 in terms of value, but that wasn't under either ***** or Reid.

In 2012, the Redskins just weren't going to be beaten out in terms of offers for the #2 spot and RGIII, and you're welcome to think Tannehill's a top guy, but I'm not on that bandwagon.

If people want to be pissed about missed QB opportunities, 2008 makes sense, but 2009-2013 don't.

Like I said (and keg, too), a lot of the frustration isn't just in the first round... Tannehill, Russel Wilson, Dalton, Kaepernick, Ryan Mallett, Clausen, McCoy, etc (of course, that's a sample of all QBs, with no opinions on potential/real success).... year to year, it's easy to say there aren't any prospects that fit the system, don't try just to try, etc; but we're talking decades of not trying at all, with the exception of Croyle and a couple of 4th rounders (and the 4th is stretching it). One one hand, it's not just drafting a QB to do it, but OTOH, that doesn't excuse a team from trying at all, for decades at a time (and when I say decades at a time, I mean all of them).

All you need to know about drafting QBs is in keg's two posts.... the Packers get it. The Chiefs don't.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

I hear what you're saying, and I'm sure it's frustrating as hell that the team's been an afterthought for as long as it has. But spending weeks or months on "GENO!!!!' (or Sanchez in 2009) when the kid's were significantly flawed prospects, and shitting all over the organization because they don't pick those kids is stupid. Teams who need QBs and see one at #1 aren't trading out if they like the QB, so that leaves only sitting at #1 or being bad in a year with multiple good QB prospects. Since 2005, the only arguable players of that level have been

Rodgers - huge miss, but by a lot of teams. The Tedford angle and his throwing mechanics scared teams away.

Culter - (No, really, SNR listed Cutler)

Ryan - Here's the big one with a relatively easy trade up to #1 or #2 in terms of value, but that wasn't under either ***** or Reid.

In 2012, the Redskins just weren't going to be beaten out in terms of offers for the #2 spot and RGIII, and you're welcome to think Tannehill's a top guy, but I'm not on that bandwagon.

If people want to be pissed about missed QB opportunities, 2008 makes sense, but 2009-2013 don't.

just shut the **** up about QBs

jesus christ, you sucked the skin off cassel's cock....

every year the same ****ing people with the SAME ****ing excuses...EVERY ****ING YEAR we pass on those 'risky QBs'....every ****ing year we suck, we lose, and we fail

we've done it the way of the reeruns for decades, we've avoided ALL RISK, and we have nothing to show for it...

you'd think being wrong every day of your god damn life would force you to reconsider at some point

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

I hear what you're saying, and I'm sure it's frustrating as hell that the team's been an afterthought for as long as it has. But spending weeks or months on "GENO!!!!' (or Sanchez in 2009) when the kid's were significantly flawed prospects, and shitting all over the organization because they don't pick those kids is stupid. Teams who need QBs and see one at #1 aren't trading out if they like the QB, so that leaves only sitting at #1 or being bad in a year with multiple good QB prospects. Since 2005, the only arguable players of that level have been

Rodgers - huge miss, but by a lot of teams. The Tedford angle and his throwing mechanics scared teams away.

Culter - (No, really, SNR listed Cutler)

Ryan - Here's the big one with a relatively easy trade up to #1 or #2 in terms of value, but that wasn't under either ***** or Reid.

In 2012, the Redskins just weren't going to be beaten out in terms of offers for the #2 spot and RGIII, and you're welcome to think Tannehill's a top guy, but I'm not on that bandwagon.

If people want to be pissed about missed QB opportunities, 2008 makes sense, but 2009-2013 don't.

Ryan Tannehill threw for 3,200 yards in HIS FIRST NFL SEASON

You put aside Luck and RG3 hype, that is what you should expect out of a normal first round rookie QB. Tannehill should progress like the expectations of drafting a first round QB, similar to the Joe Flaccos, Big Bens, Jay Cutler, etc.

Ill take a first round rookie QB throwing for 3200 yards in year 1 with a 7-9 record over giving up two 2nd round draft picks for a 30 year old QB that will throw for 2800 yards and barely get us to 8-8 in his 9th year.

It took Alex Smith his 6th season to even sniff the 3,000 yard mark fyi. It took Tannehill... one.