Croyle Sux,

[cardken]

That is all.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Let me just sum it up this way as to why our offense sucks compared to what we have been used to with DV/AS.....

1. During the DV AS era we had an Oline that had pretty much 4-5 Pro Bowl Olinemen, 2 in which are future HOF's and the most important Olineman position, the LT spot, was owned by a player that can be argued to be the best to ever play at that position. Hell our worst Olineman in 2002 was John Tait, whos a hell of a tackle IMO. Not to mention these players ALWAYS played together. None of them were hardly ever hurt. There was a chemistry there that was invaluable to an offense and especially the QB. Trent Green wasn't anything special. Didn't have too strong of an arm, held on to the ball for too long, and tried to force things at times, but what he had was accuracy and 7 seconds of protection. Look at Brady and the Pats last season, besides the loss in the SB, the Pats Oline hardly ever allowed anyone to touch Brady. Same goes with Peyton Manning, the Colts Oline have been the best in the league in pass protection.

- Now, we have a patchwork Oline and scabs off of other teams that make up our Oline. This problem should have been addressed a long time ago and that was front office's fault for not doing so as our Oline got older and older and no preparations were in line for their eventual retirement. The only remaining starter is as well all know is Waters. Waters play hasn't gotten worse, but it looked a hell of a lot better when a HOF'er is by your side taking on double teams like it's ****ing nothing. We are always having injuries to our starters which makes us have to go further down the shitchart to find the next turd to line up and play. There is no chemistry at all because of this and the pass protection suffers a great deal. I don't care if its Manning or Brady, if they can't get protection (see Brady in SB) they aren't going to be any good.

2. Trent Green has been the typical NFL system QB, never has he once played under a different scheme in the NFL than what Cameron,Martz,Vermeil, and Saunders ran. Just like Favre and what he had with the West Coast Offense up in GB his whole career, Green knew the offense just as good as the coaches, probably even better, he mastered it, knew every play and option inside and out. Once you got it down, games come along much easier. Green was put in a position where he could succeed.

- We are starting a young inexperienced QB. He's going to do all of the things inexperienced QB's do. They're going to panic in the pocket when pressure is in their face. They are going to hold onto the ball too long. Theyre going to throw into double and triple coverages, they're going to turn the ball over. They are going to make dumb decisions that a normal NFL vet QB would more than likely not make.

3. Our WR's have never really been spectacular to begin with outside of Tony G, dating back when DV was here, but when a QB gets 6-7 sec of pass protection, even Ryan Leaf could be successful in the NFL with that, eventually WR's are going to get open because usually they are always one step in front of the defense.

- Our WR's can't run good routes and that mainly falls on the coaching they're receiving. Darling SUCKS and Webb is on this team through a family connection. Franklin looks promising as does Bowe but outside that we have the worse WR core in the NFL. We need to look at another WR in next year's draft. Maclin in the 2nd round would be great in the slot.

4. Field position. This falls soley on ST coach Mike Pheifer and our inability to get anything going in the ST game. I havent seen ST be this bad in God knows how long. I will still say to this day that it was our blocking that ran Dante Hall out of town. Hall was still good for a couple returns a year, better than most teams. There is no blocking in the return game or kick coverage. Pheifer needs to be canned. People wanna knock on DV but if there is one thing he knew and knew better than most coaches it was special teams.

Good post

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Let me just sum it up this way as to why our offense sucks compared to what we have been used to with DV/AS.....

1. During the DV AS era we had an Oline that had pretty much 4-5 Pro Bowl Olinemen, 2 in which are future HOF's and the most important Olineman position, the LT spot, was owned by a player that can be argued to be the best to ever play at that position. Hell our worst Olineman in 2002 was John Tait, whos a hell of a tackle IMO. Not to mention these players ALWAYS played together. None of them were hardly ever hurt. There was a chemistry there that was invaluable to an offense and especially the QB. Trent Green wasn't anything special. Didn't have too strong of an arm, held on to the ball for too long, and tried to force things at times, but what he had was accuracy and 7 seconds of protection. Look at Brady and the Pats last season, besides the loss in the SB, the Pats Oline hardly ever allowed anyone to touch Brady. Same goes with Peyton Manning, the Colts Oline have been the best in the league in pass protection.

- Now, we have a patchwork Oline and scabs off of other teams that make up our Oline. This problem should have been addressed a long time ago and that was front office's fault for not doing so as our Oline got older and older and no preparations were in line for their eventual retirement. The only remaining starter is as well all know is Waters. Waters play hasn't gotten worse, but it looked a hell of a lot better when a HOF'er is by your side taking on double teams like it's ****ing nothing. We are always having injuries to our starters which makes us have to go further down the shitchart to find the next turd to line up and play. There is no chemistry at all because of this and the pass protection suffers a great deal. I don't care if its Manning or Brady, if they can't get protection (see Brady in SB) they aren't going to be any good.

2. Trent Green has been the typical NFL system QB, never has he once played under a different scheme in the NFL than what Cameron,Martz,Vermeil, and Saunders ran. Just like Favre and what he had with the West Coast Offense up in GB his whole career, Green knew the offense just as good as the coaches, probably even better, he mastered it, knew every play and option inside and out. Once you got it down, games come along much easier. Green was put in a position where he could succeed.

- We are starting a young inexperienced QB. He's going to do all of the things inexperienced QB's do. They're going to panic in the pocket when pressure is in their face. They are going to hold onto the ball too long. Theyre going to throw into double and triple coverages, they're going to turn the ball over. They are going to make dumb decisions that a normal NFL vet QB would more than likely not make.

3. Our WR's have never really been spectacular to begin with outside of Tony G, dating back when DV was here, but when a QB gets 6-7 sec of pass protection, even Ryan Leaf could be successful in the NFL with that, eventually WR's are going to get open because usually they are always one step in front of the defense.

- Our WR's can't run good routes and that mainly falls on the coaching they're receiving. Darling SUCKS and Webb is on this team through a family connection. Franklin looks promising as does Bowe but outside that we have the worse WR core in the NFL. We need to look at another WR in next year's draft. Maclin in the 2nd round would be great in the slot.

4. Field position. This falls soley on ST coach Mike Pheifer and our inability to get anything going in the ST game. I havent seen ST be this bad in God knows how long. I will still say to this day that it was our blocking that ran Dante Hall out of town. Hall was still good for a couple returns a year, better than most teams. There is no blocking in the return game or kick coverage. Pheifer needs to be canned. People wanna knock on DV but if there is one thing he knew and knew better than most coaches it was special teams.

You're smarter than I thought you were.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Let me just sum it up this way as to why our offense sucks compared to what we have been used to with DV/AS.....
.

This is Herm's third year. How many more years does he get to improve the team? How many years until he can field a decent OL, decent system QB, receivers, special teams and a decent defense?

[Mecca]

Jeremy Maclin in no way shape or form lasts until the 2nd round, if he runs a sub 4.3 40 which is possible he gets into the top 15.

I think the last incarnation of the Chiefs line and Green spoiled us to an extent, Green always held the ball to long but the line let him get away with that. Watch QB's in the pocket count to 5 at 5 seconds the ball should be out. He should have found or be finding his receiver when he hits the back step of his drop.

[theultimatekcchiefsfan]

Croyle = Grossman

[blueballs]

Originally Posted by theultimatekcchiefsfan

Croyle = Grossman

There was a good Rex and a bad Rex
with Brodie I don't see either good or bad

[TEX]

Croyle = Grossman

Croyle is worse.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

This is Herm's third year. How many more years does he get to improve the team? How many years until he can field a decent OL, decent system QB, receivers, special teams and a decent defense?

You're right - this is exactly the place I thought we would be when he took over. We are going nowhere with Herm. Man why cant Clark see that?

[TEX]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Let me just sum it up this way as to why our offense sucks compared to what we have been used to with DV/AS.....

1. During the DV AS era we had an Oline that had pretty much 4-5 Pro Bowl Olinemen, 2 in which are future HOF's and the most important Olineman position, the LT spot, was owned by a player that can be argued to be the best to ever play at that position. Hell our worst Olineman in 2002 was John Tait, whos a hell of a tackle IMO. Not to mention these players ALWAYS played together. None of them were hardly ever hurt. There was a chemistry there that was invaluable to an offense and especially the QB. Trent Green wasn't anything special. Didn't have too strong of an arm, held on to the ball for too long, and tried to force things at times, but what he had was accuracy and 7 seconds of protection. Look at Brady and the Pats last season, besides the loss in the SB, the Pats Oline hardly ever allowed anyone to touch Brady. Same goes with Peyton Manning, the Colts Oline have been the best in the league in pass protection.

- Now, we have a patchwork Oline and scabs off of other teams that make up our Oline. This problem should have been addressed a long time ago and that was front office's fault for not doing so as our Oline got older and older and no preparations were in line for their eventual retirement. The only remaining starter is as well all know is Waters. Waters play hasn't gotten worse, but it looked a hell of a lot better when a HOF'er is by your side taking on double teams like it's ****ing nothing. We are always having injuries to our starters which makes us have to go further down the shitchart to find the next turd to line up and play. There is no chemistry at all because of this and the pass protection suffers a great deal. I don't care if its Manning or Brady, if they can't get protection (see Brady in SB) they aren't going to be any good.

2. Trent Green has been the typical NFL system QB, never has he once played under a different scheme in the NFL than what Cameron,Martz,Vermeil, and Saunders ran. Just like Favre and what he had with the West Coast Offense up in GB his whole career, Green knew the offense just as good as the coaches, probably even better, he mastered it, knew every play and option inside and out. Once you got it down, games come along much easier. Green was put in a position where he could succeed.

- We are starting a young inexperienced QB. He's going to do all of the things inexperienced QB's do. They're going to panic in the pocket when pressure is in their face. They are going to hold onto the ball too long. Theyre going to throw into double and triple coverages, they're going to turn the ball over. They are going to make dumb decisions that a normal NFL vet QB would more than likely not make.

3. Our WR's have never really been spectacular to begin with outside of Tony G, dating back when DV was here, but when a QB gets 6-7 sec of pass protection, even Ryan Leaf could be successful in the NFL with that, eventually WR's are going to get open because usually they are always one step in front of the defense.

- Our WR's can't run good routes and that mainly falls on the coaching they're receiving. Darling SUCKS and Webb is on this team through a family connection. Franklin looks promising as does Bowe but outside that we have the worse WR core in the NFL. We need to look at another WR in next year's draft. Maclin in the 2nd round would be great in the slot.

4. Field position. This falls soley on ST coach Mike Pheifer and our inability to get anything going in the ST game. I havent seen ST be this bad in God knows how long. I will still say to this day that it was our blocking that ran Dante Hall out of town. Hall was still good for a couple returns a year, better than most teams. There is no blocking in the return game or kick coverage. Pheifer needs to be canned. People wanna knock on DV but if there is one thing he knew and knew better than most coaches it was special teams.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Mecca

If you wanna start comparing things for what you see, Trent Edwards is a fine player to compare Croyle with, he was drafted a year later in the 3rd round and the Bills are starting him and did as a rookie...

To this point he has shown more than Croyle has, I know up there he got the laughing smile but hey it's the truth to this point.

I'm also tired of this 6 starts thing it's pretty obvious he's going to start this season, and this is his season if he's horrendously bad they can't run him back out there next year.

Yep. But they probably will...

[Mecca]

Why can't we get a head coach that cares about both sides of the ball?

Or coordinators and position coaches aren't has beens but instead of young up and comers...

[KcMizzou]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Jeremy Maclin in no way shape or form lasts until the 2nd round, if he runs a sub 4.3 40 which is possible he gets into the top 15.

I, for one, think he should stay in college as long as possible.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

This is Herm's third year. How many more years does he get to improve the team? How many years until he can field a decent OL, decent system QB, receivers, special teams and a decent defense?

Originally Posted by TEX

You're right - this is exactly the place I thought we would be when he took over. We are going nowhere with Herm. Man why cant Clark see that?

I'd agree if he had any control over things the first 18 months he was here.

In 2006 he was pressured into making one last stand with a roster full of aging veterans by Peterson.

In 2007, Peterson AGAIN fought the rebuild, and we saw:

Huard instead of Croyle

Holmes instead of Kolby Smith

Complete trash at RT instead of Herb Taylor

Weigmann at C instead of Niswanger

Tank and Turk on the bench for 75% of the game

Hell, Kennison had to blow out a hammy in the opener, or I'm 100% convinced he may not have saw the field on a regular basis until mid-season - at best.


Thankfully, Clark stepped in during the offseason and sided with Herm. Things have OBVIOUSLY changed around 1 Arrowhead Drive. Sure, he's been the HC for 3 years. But Peterson's only kept his hands out since mid-2007.

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Why can't we get a head coach that cares about both sides of the ball?

Or coordinators and position coaches aren't has beens but instead of young up and comers...

I think you may be on to something here. Do other teams have as many busts as we do? Especially along the defenive line.

["Bob" Dobbs]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

This is Herm's third year. How many more years does he get to improve the team? How many years until he can field a decent OL, decent system QB, receivers, special teams and a decent defense?

It's going to take as many years as it takes to draft all of them. I think this is going to be a SLLLOOOWWWWW rebuild, just because there were so many players to be replaced.

By the way, I didn't notice any discussion about WTF happened to SIPPIO!!!!!!!111!! I thought that supposedly he had these things called "hands". Where the **** did they go last night?