Chiefs Rumor: Albert to the Dolphins - Page 15

Titty Meat · 02:30 PM

*Albert

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-the-dolphins/

So that great 08' draft class won 0 playoff games and 3 of the better players from that draft are no longer on the team. Thanks Pioli.

Mugsy · 03-10-2014, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

I think it's the only thing that adds up. They started this plan to deal with Albert hitting free agency last offseason, and they invested a #1 pick. It would make no sense give up on Fisher before they ever even tried him as the full-time starter LT.

Yep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Putting too much on him? How would it be putting too much on him to move him back to his natural spot where he's played for years? The spot where his natural reactions would kick back in?

He had never played LT in the NFL. From the day he came in they groomed him to play RT in 2014. He was the #1 overall pick and that is a lot of pressure. I'm sorry you don't get it man. The transition from a smaller college to pros is not easy in the first place. Couple that with learning a new position and he had enough on his plate.

I'd say Reid is a proven coach and knows what he's doing. Throw in the fact that he has experience as a personnel guy and it's easy to understand why he didn't play Fisher at LT when Albert got hurt. Experience goes a long way and he handled the situation well imo.

htismaqe · 03-10-2014, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugsy

He had never played LT in the NFL. From the day he came in they groomed him to play RT in 2014. He was the #1 overall pick and that is a lot of pressure. I'm sorry you don't get it man. The transition from a smaller college to pros is not easy in the first place. Couple that with learning a new position and he had enough on his plate.

Excuses.

Mugsy · 03-10-2014, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Excuses.

I'm just the messenger man.

saphojunkie · 03-10-2014, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

If Geno is a bust after one season, so is Fisher. You can't give one the benefit of development time and not the other.

As for alternatives, I already provided one. Milliner, whether anybody wants to admit it or not, is a legitimate alternative. In fact, we are in the EXACT SAME SITUATION at CB as we were with LT last year. So if you're going to use that logic to support the drafting of Fisher, you can't discount taking Milliner as not viable.

Milliner would have been just as bad of a bust as Fisher. That's my problem with all of this. People act like there was a guy sitting on the board that everyone wanted at #1 and has backed it up on the field.

There are plenty of guys who fit in ONE of those categories, but not both.

Dion Jordan and Mingo included. And what... a backup pass rusher at #1? Again, I'll take the starter over the backup when drafting first overall.

This is all so ****ing silly.

htismaqe · 03-10-2014, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugsy

I'm just the messenger man.

Messenger from whom?

Dorsey and Reid would also consider those excuses. If you don't think they expected more out of the #1 overall pick, you're foolishly naive.

htismaqe · 03-10-2014, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Milliner would have been just as bad of a bust as Fisher. That's my problem with all of this. People act like there was a guy sitting on the board that everyone wanted at #1 and has backed it up on the field.

There are plenty of guys who fit in ONE of those categories, but not both.

Dion Jordan and Mingo included. And what... a backup pass rusher at #1? Again, I'll take the starter over the backup when drafting first overall.

This is all so ****ing silly.

Jordan has the chance to be a game changer. Mingo has a chance to be a game changer. The play premium positions.

Eric Fisher could be the best right tackle in the history of football and still not be a game changer. His position alone prevents it.

EDIT: And yes, it is silly. It wasn't a good pick. I know that's a hard pill to swallow for some...

Mugsy · 03-10-2014, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

We did have Eric Winston on the team, who didn't do too terribly. He's starting for the Cardinals right now and doing a reasonable job.

We could have tried to legitimately re-sign Albert had we not drafted Fisher and been just fine.

How? The money situation would be the exact same as it is now. The price of the first pick's contract is the same if he's a QB, a OT, or a kicker.The decision was made when we re-signed Bowe.

I was fine with Winston too and questioned that move.

Also, don't be surprised if we take a defensive linemen with our first pick. It is definitely possible and there are a couple that would fit our system really well that are projected to be there. Are you going to go postal if we take a DE or DT at #23? It's a real possibility. Especially if we don't re-sign Jackson.

OldSchool · 03-10-2014, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Except that I NEVER said that. I ***WANTED*** Geno Smith leading up to the draft.

After watching him play, I said that taking him CLEARLY would have been a MISTAKE.

Stop acting like a ****ing moron and stick to the actual argument.

I was just playing with you a little but I am being honest when I say that the fact that you, along with a lot of people on CP, wanted to draft Geno Smith just goes to prove my point.

There was no perfect prospect at #1 overall. Just look at the top 10 of that draft evaluated purely on a hit or miss basis based entirely upon their rookie season without taking injuries, possible future improvements, etc. into consideration:

1. Eric Fisher, OT - miss (played injured a lot and played poorly too often because of it, weak sauce as a rookie)
2. Luke Joeckel, OT - miss (inj. and poor play)
3. Dion Jordan, DE/OLB - miss (coaching decision/scheme fit)
4. Lane Johnson, OT - decent (inconsistent play and looked bad early on, got better as season progressed and became middle of the pack OT)
5. Ziggy Ansah, DE - decent (solid 8 sacks as a rookie, not spectacular but decent production)
6. Barkevious Mingo, OLB/DE- miss (disappointing rookie year especially considering all of the talent he is playing next to)
7. Jonathan Cooper, OL- miss (injury made him miss entire year)
8. Tavon Austin, WR- miss (really really weak player who will be nothing but a slot guy, Rams tried too hard to make it work with him on the outside)
9. Dee Milliner, CB- miss (sucked all season long, benched multiple times for a UDFA)
10. Chance Warmack, OG - miss (really inconsistent rookie season, just like almost all of the other top rookie OL players)

htismaqe · 03-10-2014, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

I was just playing with you a little but I am being honest when I say that the fact that you, along with a lot of people on CP, wanted to draft Geno Smith just goes to prove my point.

It doesn't prove anything. What we wanted to do before the draft has nothing at all to do with what the situation is now, with the benefit of hindsight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

There was no perfect prospect at #1 overall. Just look at the top 10 of that draft evaluated purely on a hit or miss basis based entirely upon their rookie season without taking injuries, possible future improvements, etc. into consideration:

1. Eric Fisher, OT - miss (played injured a lot and played poorly too often because of it, weak sauce as a rookie)
2. Luke Joeckel, OT - miss (inj. and poor play)
3. Dion Jordan, DE/OLB - miss (coaching decision/scheme fit)
4. Lane Johnson, OT - decent (inconsistent play and looked bad early on, got better as season progressed and became middle of the pack OT)
5. Ziggy Ansah, DE - decent (solid 8 sacks as a rookie, not spectacular but decent production)
6. Barkevious Mingo, OLB/DE- miss (disappointing rookie year especially considering all of the talent he is playing next to)
7. Jonathan Cooper, OL- miss (injury made him miss entire year)
8. Tavon Austin, WR- miss (really really weak player who will be nothing but a slot guy, Rams tried too hard to make it work with him on the outside)
9. Dee Milliner, CB- miss (sucked all season long, benched multiple times for a UDFA)
10. Chance Warmack, OG - miss (really inconsistent rookie season, just like almost all of the other top rookie OL players)

Any of the non-OL would have been better picks than Fisher. Literally any of them.

OldSchool · 03-10-2014, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Jordan has the chance to be a game changer. Mingo has a chance to be a game changer. The play premium positions.

Eric Fisher could be the best right tackle in the history of football and still not be a game changer. His position alone prevents it.

EDIT: And yes, it is silly. It wasn't a good pick. I know that's a hard pill to swallow for some...

With Hali and Houston in the fold, neither Jordan nor Mingo would have seen the light of day barring injury. Plus, neither of those guys had great rookie years either. Jordan couldn't beat out either of the current Miami starters last year. Mingo severely underperformed despite playing with dominant talent around and in front of him.

htismaqe · 03-10-2014, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugsy

How? The money situation would be the exact same as it is now. The price of the first pick's contract is the same if he's a QB, a OT, or a kicker.The decision was made when we re-signed Bowe.

I was fine with Winston too and questioned that move.

Also, don't be surprised if we take a defensive linemen with our first pick. It is definitely possible and there are a couple that would fit our system really well that are projected to be there. Are you going to go postal if we take a DE or DT at #23? It's a real possibility. Especially if we don't re-sign Jackson.

I won't be surprised. This team has gotten really good at spending 1st round picks poorly.

htismaqe · 03-10-2014, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

With Hali and Houston in the fold, neither Jordan nor Mingo would have seen the light of day barring injury. Plus, neither of those guys had great rookie years either. Jordan couldn't beat out either of the current Miami starters last year. Mingo severely underperformed despite playing with dominant talent around and in front of him.

So basically the same as Fisher.

Again, Fisher's overall impact is limited by his position.

If you're going to throw shit against the wall, at least give yourself a chance...

**The Franchise** · 03-10-2014, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

I was just playing with you a little but I am being honest when I say that the fact that you, along with a lot of people on CP, wanted to draft Geno Smith just goes to prove my point.

There was no perfect prospect at #1 overall. Just look at the top 10 of that draft evaluated purely on a hit or miss basis based entirely upon their rookie season without taking injuries, possible future improvements, etc. into consideration:

1. Eric Fisher, OT - miss (played injured a lot and played poorly too often because of it, weak sauce as a rookie)
2. Luke Joeckel, OT - miss (inj. and poor play)
3. Dion Jordan, DE/OLB - miss (coaching decision/scheme fit)
4. Lane Johnson, OT - decent (inconsistent play and looked bad early on, got better as season progressed and became middle of the pack OT)
5. Ziggy Ansah, DE - decent (solid 8 sacks as a rookie, not spectacular but decent production)
6. Barkevious Mingo, OLB/DE- miss (disappointing rookie year especially considering all of the talent he is playing next to)
7. Jonathan Cooper, OL- miss (injury made him miss entire year)
8. Tavon Austin, WR- miss (really really weak player who will be nothing but a slot guy, Rams tried too hard to make it work with him on the outside)
9. Dee Milliner, CB- miss (sucked all season long, benched multiple times for a UDFA)
10. Chance Warmack, OG - miss (really inconsistent rookie season, just like almost all of the other top rookie OL players)

So everyone was pretty much a miss. You're dumb.

htismaqe · 03-10-2014, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

So everyone was pretty much a miss. You're dumb.

At least our miss was safe. Didn't put anybody's eye out with that dart.

mcaj22 · 03-10-2014, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

I was just playing with you a little but I am being honest when I say that the fact that you, along with a lot of people on CP, wanted to draft Geno Smith just goes to prove my point.

There was no perfect prospect at #1 overall. Just look at the top 10 of that draft evaluated purely on a hit or miss basis based entirely upon their rookie season without taking injuries, possible future improvements, etc. into consideration:

1. Eric Fisher, OT - miss (played injured a lot and played poorly too often because of it, weak sauce as a rookie)
2. Luke Joeckel, OT - miss (inj. and poor play)
3. Dion Jordan, DE/OLB - miss (coaching decision/scheme fit)
4. Lane Johnson, OT - decent (inconsistent play and looked bad early on, got better as season progressed and became middle of the pack OT)
5. Ziggy Ansah, DE - decent (solid 8 sacks as a rookie, not spectacular but decent production)
6. Barkevious Mingo, OLB/DE- miss (disappointing rookie year especially considering all of the talent he is playing next to)
7. Jonathan Cooper, OL- miss (injury made him miss entire year)
8. Tavon Austin, WR- miss (really really weak player who will be nothing but a slot guy, Rams tried too hard to make it work with him on the outside)
9. Dee Milliner, CB- miss (sucked all season long, benched multiple times for a UDFA)
10. Chance Warmack, OG - miss (really inconsistent rookie season, just like almost all of the other top rookie OL players)

that's a little deceptive, you have to show the guys that slipped out of the top 10.

11 San Diego Chargers D. J. Fluker OT -(hit)
12 Oakland Raiders D. J. Hayden CB -(miss)/injured
13 New York Jets Sheldon Richardson DT -(hit) stud
14 Carolina Panthers Star Lotulelei DT -(hit) stud
15 New Orleans Saints Kenny Vaccaro S -(hit)
16 Buffalo Bills E. J. Manuel QB -(?)/injured
17 Pittsburgh Steelers Jarvis Jones LB -decent, could turn into a hit because they just cut Woodley.
18 San Francisco 49ers Eric Reid† S -(hit)
19 New York Giants Justin Pugh OT -okay
20 Chicago Bears Kyle Long† G -(hit) stud

03-09-2014, 02:19 PM
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $-1052442	Rumor: Albert to the Dolphins Albert http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-the-dolphins/ So that great 08' draft class won 0 playoff games and 3 of the better players from that draft are no longer on the team. Thanks Pioli. Last edited by morphius; 03-09-2014 at 02:30 PM..*
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