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Old 02-20-2014, 02:49 PM  
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2014 NFL Combine - Players - The DT

Defensive Tackles:

Jay Bromley, Syracuse
6'3", 306 lb., 33 1/2" arms
Bench: 26
40: 5.06
Vertical: 33.5"
Broad: 8'10"
3 Cone: 7.92

Ryan Carrethers, Arkansas State
6'1", 337 lb., 31 3/4" arms
Bench: 32
40: 5.47
Vertical: 7'4"
Broad: 26"
3 Cone: 7.89

Deandre Coleman, California
6'5", 314 lb., 34 3/8" arms
Bench: 24
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Aaron Donald, Pittsburgh
6'1", 285 lb., 32 5/8" arms
Bench: 35
40: 4.68
Vertical: 32"
Broad: 9'8"
3 Cone: 7.11

Dominique Easley, Florida
6'2", 288 lb., 32 7/8" arms
Bench: 26
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Justin Ellis, Louisiana Tech
6'1", 334 lb., 33" arms
Bench: 28
40: 5.27
Vertical: 28"
Broad: 7'8"
3 Cone: 7.81

Ego Ferguson, LSU
6'3", 315 lb., 32 1/2" arms
Bench: 24
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Ra'shede Hageman Minnesota
6'6", 310 lb., 34 1/4" arms
Bench: 32
40: 5.02
Vertical: 35.5"
Broad: 9'6"
3 Cone: 7.87

Kerry Hyder, Texas Tech
6'2", 290 lb., 33 1/2" arms
Bench: 20
40: 5.10
Vertical: 29.5"
Broad: 9'0"
3 Cone: 7.23

Anthony Johnson, LSU
6'2", 308 lb., 32 7/8" arms
Bench: 20
40: 5.24
Vertical: 24.5"
Broad: 9'6"
3 Cone: 7.93

Daquan Jones, Penn State
6'4", 322 lb., 33 1/2" arms
Bench: 21
40: 5.35
Vertical: 27.5"
Broad: 9'5"
3 Cone: 7.16

Zach Kerr, Delaware
6'1", 326 lb., 32 7/8" arms
Bench: 28
40: 5.08
Vertical: 28.5"
Broad: 8'3"
3 Cone: 7.93

Dan McCullers, Tennessee
6'7", 352 lb., 36 5/8" arms
Bench: 27
40: DNP
Vertical: 20.5"
Broad: 8'1"
3 Cone: DNP

Louis Nix, Notre Dame
6'2", 331 lb., 33" arms
Bench: DNP
40: 5.42
Vertical: 25.5"
Broad: 8'1"
3 Cone: 8.29

Tenny Palepoi, Utah
6'1", 298 lb., 30 1/2" arms
Bench: 31
40: 5.10
Vertical: 30.5"
Broad: 9'3"
3 Cone: 7.67

Mike Pennel, CSU-Pueblo
6'4", 332 lb., 33 3/8" arms
Bench: 23
40: 5.23
Vertical: 28.5"
Broad: 8'6"
3 Cone: 7.94

Kelcy Quarles, South Carolina
6'4", 297 lb., 33 1/4" arms
Bench: 27
40: 5.03
Vertical: 23.5"
Broad: 8'6"
3 Cone: DNP

Caraun Reid, Princeton
6'2", 302 lb., 33" arms
Bench: 20
40: 4.91
Vertical: 26.5"
Broad: 8'10"
3 Cone: 7.59"

Shamar Stephen, Connecticut
6'5", 309 lb., 33 1/8" arms
Bench: 25
40: 5.25
Vertical: 30.5"
Broad: 8'7"
3 Cone: DNP

Will Sutton, Arizona State
6'0", 303 lb., 31 1/4" arms
Bench: 24
40: 5.36
Vertical: 28.5"
Broad: 8'3"
3 Cone: 7.93

Robert Thomas, Arkansas
6'1", 327 lb., 33 7/8" arms
Bench: 32
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Khyri Thornton, Southern Mississippi
6'3", 304 lb., 32 1/2" arms
Bench: 28
40: 5.03
Vertical: 29"
Broad: 9'4"
3 Cone: 7.83

Brent Urban, Virginia
6'7", 295 lb., 34 1/4" arms
Bench: DNP
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Chris Whaley, Texas
6'3", 269 lb., 32 1/8" arms
Bench: DNP
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Kerry Wynn, Richmond
6'5", 266 lb., 31 3/4" arms
Bench: 31
40: 4.97
Vertical: 34"
Broad: 9'5"
3 Cone: DNP

Last edited by Saccopoo; 03-01-2014 at 07:52 PM..
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:59 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
1. I would like to see that data
I'll have to see if I can dig it up. We only did it for a few years and the database is very difficult to search that far back.

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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
2. I dont think that "disappear for entire series' at a time" is the same as a "lack of work ethic" or the same as "big time attitude issues."

In Hagemon's case it could be the lack of technique and experience.
Again, I watched him play quite a bit. There were many times when you could see a lack of effort.
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:07 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Again, I watched him play quite a bit. There were many times when you could see a lack of effort.
What you assume as lack of effort can be something else.

Hageman's production is relatively modest compared to other top prospects for a reason: his technique is still quite raw. The fact that he's a defensive line convert still shows, as he struggles to disengage from blockers using his hands and lacks pass rushing moves. He's inconsistent in utilizing his length while engaged, often not being in ideal position to extend into his blocker and dominate as he should. With his size, he needs to learn how to keep his pads lower with more consistency as he has a lot of body to latch onto, which plays a part in his losing battles at the line. His dealing with double teams is less than ideal, as he often lacks a plan while attacking them, not being quickly aware of the extra attention and running into a wall. He could also stand to add lower body strength to help him improve his dealing with double teams. His long legs can leave him susceptible to cut blocks.

He has a lot to learn, but so did Poe. His physical gifts are something that cant be taught and something that is worth the #23 pick with the new CBA.

last yrs #23 pick was DT Shariff Floyd. His contract
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Signed a four-year, $7.671 million contract. The deal included a $4,253,600 signing bonus.
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:14 PM   #108
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
What you assume as lack of effort can be something else.
Except that a lot of scouts are also assuming it's a lack of effort...

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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
He has a lot to learn, but so did Poe. His physical gifts are something that cant be taught and something that is worth the #23 pick with the new CBA.
Hageman isn't NEAR the physical specimen Dontari Poe is.

You're inflating his value quite a little bit.
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:40 PM   #109
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Except that a lot of scouts are also assuming it's a lack of effort...
who are these scouts? I think it will be clear exactly how the NFL perceives him on draft day. Its smoke and mirrors time right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Hageman isn't NEAR the physical specimen Dontari Poe is.

You're inflating his value quite a little bit.
they are both physical freaks.


Poe is heavier and faster, but Hageman is still very fast for his size. Poe benched 44x with 32" arms, while Hageman benched 32x with 34" arms. Hageman has better numbers everywhere else.

Poe is a physical freak as a NT. Hageman is a physical freak as a 3-4 DE.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:25 AM   #110
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I'd probably wait and take a de later, as quarrels and Easley are likely to drop and if in the right situation (healthy and motivated) they could end up being really solid players
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:27 PM   #111
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Peshek: DT Metrics 1.0
(highlights)

How well did they rush the passer?

The chart below represents pass rush efficiency for each of the defensive tackles. The metric PRR, pass rush rate, measures how often the pass rusher affected the QB in the form of a pressure, sack, or knockdown. PRR+ includes pass deflections at the line of scrimmage. The number represents on a per snap basis, how often they get to the QB Ė ie, if PRR is 10 it means they affect the QB once every 10 snaps. Thus a lower number is better.



- We can see that Aaron Donald is nearly twice as efficient in pass rush as the next best DTs on the list. Coming in with a PRR of 6.42, his efficiency getting after the quarterback matches what youíd expect to see from the very best pass rushing linebackers and defensive ends in both college and the NFL. Frankly, this metric is exceptional for a defensive tackle.

- Timmy Jerniganís pass rush efficiency is notably lower than the other defensive tackles on this list, coming in at 19.14, but thatís not totally a bad thing. This group of DTs are quality pass rushers and a PRR score of 19.14 wouldnít be out of line for a 1st/2nd round defensive tackle in any other year.

- Without adding in batted passes at the line of scrimmage Hageman is still very productive, pressuring the QB once every 12.75 snaps. However, when you add on his penchant for knocking passes down, his PRR+ nears Aaron Donaldís. There may be concerns about Hageman taking plays off, but from a metrics standpoint he gets the results he needs to.

- Despite all the concerns and discussion about his weight, Sutton was still a quality pass rusher with a PRR similar to Hagemanís at 12.79. This would be enough to compare to DTs in the 2012 draft class like Sheldon Richardson and Sylvester Williams.

How did they do against the run?

Similar to the last section, Iíll break down the tacklesí impacts in the run game by looking at their rate of making effective tackles. An effective tackle is one that is behind the LOS or within 3 yards of the LOS, thus stopping a RB for a less than average run. The Eff Tak score is in the same format as PRR.



- Continuing on with his positive showing so far, Aaron Donald comes in at second among the first group of DTs, impacting the run game once every 9.4 snaps. Itís easy to think he might be a pass rush specialist only, but he clearly shows the ability to make impact tackles.

- Timmy Jernigan has the highest effective tackle rate of the first group of DTs at 7.24. This was plain to see when he faced Auburn, but Jernigan shows a well-roundedness by being able to affect the run game often.

- Itís likely that Hageman saw the least total run snaps among the entire DT class given the rotations from Minnesota. However, his supposed Ďlack of effortí still did not show up, racking up a solid 11 Eff Tak rate.

- If youíre worrying about anyone being a pass rush specialist only, it might be Will Sutton. His Eff Tak rate is half that of Timmy Jernigan, making an impact tackle once every 14.75 snaps. How heíll handle the run game at a lower weight is a question that needs to be answered.

How did they get their run stops?

This is a bit of an experimental section examining run stops. The goal is to see where the run goes - which is to say, if the DT is lined up over the right side A gap where did the run go relative to that alignment? I've found over the DT class, that around 47% of their tackles will be within 1 gap distance away. It's not a definitive measure and it's still something I'm examining, but I figure the more tackles a DT has (close to the LOS) further from the original alignment, the more range in the run game that player has. The chart represents the percentage of tackles made by distance from original alignment.



- We can see that Donald has a lower percentage of tackles 0-1 gap away from his original alignment than average (33% vs 47%) and 14% of his tackles were further away than expected. Along with his quality tackles mentioned in the previous section, this indicates he could have superior range in making tackles we wouldnít normally expect a DT to make.

- Timmy Jernigan has a higher percentage of tackles within 1 gap than we would expect, 55.6% compared to 47% to be exact. However, thatís more likely to be expected for a DT that often played over center or only slightly shaded off.

- Like Donald, Hageman displays impressive range where 25% of his tackles were made 4-7 alignment positions away. This matches well with the athleticism displayed on tape and in post-season testing.

- Sutton has a lower percentage of tackles 4-7 gaps away at only 10%, however a solid 50% of his tackles came 2-3 gaps away which shows an ability to be more than just a space filler.

Where did they line up?

The image below represents each playerís alignment on both pass and run snaps. The larger the circle, the more often they frequented that position in their pre-snap alignment. This should give you a feel for what type of experience they have and where their production was gained.



- Aaron Donald primarily lined up directly over the right and left guards doing so 33.85% and 25.85% of the time respectively. Itís notable that he has the most experience rushing the passer on obvious passing downs from the outside where he did so approximately 6.5% of the time. He also had the least experience lining up directly over center.

- In Florida Stateís scheme, Jernigan played directly over center and shaded off much more than players like Sutton and Donald. 38% of his pre-snap alignments came directly over center and he was shaded off center for another 30% of plays.

- Hageman saw a similar pattern of playing inside, however he didnít play directly over center as often as Jernigan, only doing so 11% of the time. He saw alignments between the guard and center on the right and left 23% and 31% of the time respectively.

- Although he doesnít have quite the outside experience that Donald does, Sutton aligned pre-snap much like Donald. With an even 35% on both sides, he faced off with the guards a total of 70% of the time. In total, 15% of his snaps came inside of the two guards.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:43 AM   #112
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Thanks for supporting my argument.

Hageman isn't even close to the best DT in THIS draft, let alone in the last few.

People bitch about the expectations placed on Eric Fisher. You've built Hageman up to be something he absolutely isn't.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:48 AM   #113
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Thanks for supporting my argument.

Hageman isn't even close to the best DT in THIS draft, let alone in the last few.

People bitch about the expectations placed on Eric Fisher. You've built Hageman up to be something he absolutely isn't.
I take it you just looked at the pictures and didnt read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peshek
Without adding in batted passes at the line of scrimmage Hageman is still very productive, pressuring the QB once every 12.75 snaps. However, when you add on his penchant for knocking passes down, his PRR+ nears Aaron Donaldís. There may be concerns about Hageman taking plays off, but from a metrics standpoint he gets the results he needs to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peshek
Itís likely that Hageman saw the least total run snaps among the entire DT class given the rotations from Minnesota. However, his supposed Ďlack of effortí still did not show up, racking up a solid 11 Eff Tak rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peshek
Like Donald, Hageman displays impressive range where 25% of his tackles were made 4-7 alignment positions away. This matches well with the athleticism displayed on tape and in post-season testing.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:50 AM   #114
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I take it you just looked at the pictures and didnt read.
I didn't read all of it because it all points to the same thing - you're wrong.

You've pegged Hageman as some kind of rare specimen. I've actually watched him play. A LOT. I don't have to read more than 3 or 4 lines into that to know that it doesn't support your opinion at all.
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Old 04-18-2014, 08:04 AM   #115
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I didn't read all of it because it all points to the same thing - you're wrong.
you say that it proves your argument, but also say you didnt read it.

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I don't have to read more than 3 or 4 lines into that to know that it doesn't support your opinion at all.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:33 AM   #116
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This guy could play DE for the chiefs.

Zach Moore, DE, Div. II Concordia-St. Paul
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Moore turned heads the past two seasons for the Golden Bears, recording 21 sacks and twice being named a first-team Division II All-American. And if there still lingered a stigma about being from a small school, Moore helped dispel that at last month's NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis.

The 6-foot-6, 285-pound Moore tied for the fourth-longest standing broad jump among defensive linemen at 10 feet, 3 inches. He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.84 seconds, his 10-yard split tying South Carolina star Jadeveon Clowney for the best among defensive linemen.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2014&genpos=DE
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:26 PM   #117
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This guy could play DE for the chiefs.

Zach Moore, DE, Div. II Concordia-St. Paul


http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2014&genpos=DE
He definitely fits the profile of a later round Dorsey pick.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:40 PM   #118
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2014 Defensive Prototypes: The D-Line
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:07 PM   #119
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What are your guys' thoughts on Timmy Jernigan?
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:30 PM   #120
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What are your guys' thoughts on Timmy Jernigan?
Good player. Similar in many ways to Glen Dorsey. nfl.com draft profile projects him to a 3-4 NT (much like Dorsey plays in SF).

I dont see him as a good fit for the chiefs due to his short arms, short stature, and maxed out frame.
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