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Old 05-11-2014, 04:08 PM  
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Discussing the 1st rd: why Dee Ford was the best option

And here is why. Just rumblings from what we have heard.

Darqueze Dennard CB Michigan State-Nice product, but not better than what Dee Ford could bring.
Dennard is slow and he has short arms. He ran a 4.51 at the combine, which is not what we need. Take a look at Sean Smith and Brandon Flowers. They both ran in that 4.5 range and look at what happened to them. Remember Jacoby Ford owning Flowers a few years ago due to speed? Remember Eric Decker owning Flowers deep at Arrowhead? Remember DeAndre Hopkins owning Sean Smith at Arrowhead on that deep TD?

That's speed. It's not hard to see. Phillip Gaines has all the physical aspects, along with good production. Tackling is not a huge problem IMO. It can be taught, which he's in a great position to learn as the #4 CB for this year.
What can't be taught is....speed.

Marqise Lee WR USC-This guys hands have started to get bad. Real bad. 12% drop rate? I think people are already pissed off enough seeing Donnie Avery drop passes.
As far as pure playmaking ability, do you see Lee as a better playmaker than De'Anthony Thomas? I don't think so. I think they at the least very close, but Thomas has more speed and range due to ST's. He's way better there.

I can totally see why they passed.

Xavier Su'a-Filo G UCLA-Do we even need to talk about this? Was this not the one pick nobody wanted to see? He could have started day 1, which I admit would have been nice.
This could be a testament to how Reid feels about Rishaw Johnson. Why should we not trust Reid and Dorsey here? Schwartz was a great pickup, Parker was, Cooper was, Abdullah was, McGrath was. Did they not earn your trust for a guy like Rishaw Johnson, who coincidentally looked very good in SD?

I do like the Zach Fulton pick later. He's experienced and needs a little work, but in a year or two I feel he's starting over Jeff Allen.

Derek Carr QB Fresno State-I can't get over how pathetic this guys feet are and how awful he was when pressured. He gets scared. He panics. We're going to kick his ass with our pass rush. Did I mention he made a ton of WTF throws?
Alex Smith is the QB for the next 3 years at the very least.

As for Johnny Football,I would have loved him on this team. I'd take him over Dee Ford every day. But Alex Smith is their guy. If they really wanted him they would have got him. Moving up 1 pick would not have cost much.

Jason Verrett CB TCU-He's got playmaking ability, but he is definitely short which is a no-no for Dorsey.
Keep in mind that everybody is copying Seattle's draft strategy of bigger, longer corners except for 2 teams: the Chiefs and Packers. Why? Because they all came from Green Bay.

Jimmie Ward S NIU-The one guy I think we could have taken over Ford who was picked after us. Love what he does, but let's consider something here.

This pass rush is going to be elite next year IMO. That's going to help our DB's out drastically. Also, do we have Jimmie Ward already? Commings was a very good DB in college, but didn't have the footwork to play CB, which makes him excellent at Safety.
He's faster than Ward and just as physical with a long, big body frame (sound familiar?). I can see why they passed. They love what Commings can bring.

Bottomline:I think people love the energy and personality Dee Ford will bring. They like his confidence and swagger as well. This team needs that.

His first step is very "DT-esque". It's fast, just like Von Miller as well. He's got the production. He played fantastic ball against the best teams in the biggest moments.

This move makes so much sense in so many ways. I love Tamba. He's going to be one of my favorite Chiefs defenders of all-time, but let's look at reality. He's 31 this year. Next offseason we gain $9 million dollars by cutting him.
This is what teams like the Steelers do. They realize when their good players are nearing the end and they draft their replacements.

Tamba is going to start slowly declining in 2015 when he's 32. He might get some sacks, but you'll be able to tell. He definitely got tired the last half of the season.

This defense, and pass rush specifically, might be the best we've ever seen as fans next year. The overall amount of capable pass rushers could be better than the 90's, and that says a lot.
I can't wait to see what Dee Ford will do. I don't think 6 or 7 sacks is that big of a stretch considering we're going to play the nickel a ton of the time.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:59 PM   #46
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Dennard should have been the #1. The OP is wrong calling him slow. Ran faster than Sherman and Haden two of the best CBs in the league.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:09 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 View Post
Dennard should have been the #1. The OP is wrong calling him slow. Ran faster than Sherman and Haden two of the best CBs in the league.
Dennard will be a good player in the NFL for a long time but I see why they went with Ford. By taking Ford @ 23 the CHIEFS knew they couldn't get a comparable player in the third round. They knew that there was a much better chance to get a good CB in the third which they did in Gaines.

Ford + Gaines > Dennard + 3rd round OLB.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:24 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
Let's try not to compare rookies to Hall of Fame players before they even play a single snap in the NFL.
This is really ****ing stupid.

If someone comes on here and says that Dee Ford is the next DT, then that is pushing it.

But people are saying that he has some attributes that remind them of DT.

There is nothing weong with that.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:53 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
Let's try not to compare rookies to Hall of Fame players before they even play a single snap in the NFL.
His first and second steps are comparable. Maybe not equal, but Ford has a lethal "get off".
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:25 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief View Post
His first and second steps are comparable. Maybe not equal, but Ford has a lethal "get off".
So where is the production?

Any dude with "lethal" get off, combined with that size and strength, should be absolutely destroying dudes. The guy averaged 5 sacks a year for his college career and 25 tackles per season. That absolutely sucks balls for a guy with "lethal get off."

I seriously want to know why he didn't produce at a higher level on a national championship caliber team.

I don't give a flying **** about his "get off" on ESPN's Sports Science bit.

I do care about why he didn't really do jack shit at the college level.
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:33 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
So where is the production?

Any dude with "lethal" get off, combined with that size and strength, should be absolutely destroying dudes. The guy averaged 5 sacks a year for his college career and 25 tackles per season. That absolutely sucks balls for a guy with "lethal get off."

I seriously want to know why he didn't produce at a higher level on a national championship caliber team.

I don't give a flying **** about his "get off" on ESPN's Sports Science bit.

I do care about why he didn't really do jack shit at the college level.
That's my main problem with Ford too, his lack of production despite really good measurables.
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:48 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
That's my main problem with Ford too, his lack of production despite really good measurables.
dontari, poe



guy was a worthless piece of shit in a shitty conference in college...one year later he is the best young nt in the league

i have no clue how that happens, but it did
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:26 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
So where is the production?

Any dude with "lethal" get off, combined with that size and strength, should be absolutely destroying dudes. The guy averaged 5 sacks a year for his college career and 25 tackles per season. That absolutely sucks balls for a guy with "lethal get off."

I seriously want to know why he didn't produce at a higher level on a national championship caliber team.

I don't give a flying **** about his "get off" on ESPN's Sports Science bit.

I do care about why he didn't really do jack shit at the college level.

You must not have watched. He was a beast last year. Watch the Georgia game. Watch the Texas A&M game. Watch the national championship. Watch the senior bowl.hell he was getting pressure on QB's in games like LSU and MU as well.

The guy had a sack in 5 straight games last year. I swear do people watch this guy? He was one of the most productive defenders in the entire draft last year.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:05 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Sfeihc View Post
Dennard will be a good player in the NFL for a long time but I see why they went with Ford. By taking Ford @ 23 the CHIEFS knew they couldn't get a comparable player in the third round. They knew that there was a much better chance to get a good CB in the third which they did in Gaines.

Ford + Gaines > Dennard + 3rd round OLB.
But KC wasn't forced to go OLB in round 3. They could have filled an immediate need at WR or OG.

Ford shows tons of promise as a pass rusher, but he was pretty much invisible in run defense and has had a lot of nagging injuries. You have to hope he can hold up against the increased speed and power of the NFL.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:52 AM   #55
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You must not have watched. He was a beast last year. Watch the Georgia game. Watch the Texas A&M game. Watch the national championship. Watch the senior bowl.hell he was getting pressure on QB's in games like LSU and MU as well.

The guy had a sack in 5 straight games last year. I swear do people watch this guy? He was one of the most productive defenders in the entire draft last year.
He had 29 total tackles last season.

That is absolutely horrible.

Only 3 forced fumbles for his entire career.

That is horrible.

Only three passes defensed for his entire college career.

That is horrible.

Only 27.5 tackles for loss for his college career. That includes his 20.5 sacks. That means he only made 7.5 tfl beyond his sacks. That is horrible.

The guy had absolutely no impact other than his sacks, which maxed out at 10.5 in the 2013 season.

How does that relate to productive?

Apparently I'm missing something here.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:05 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
He had 29 total tackles last season.

That is absolutely horrible.

Only 3 forced fumbles for his entire career.

That is horrible.

Only three passes defensed for his entire college career.

That is horrible.

Only 27.5 tackles for loss for his college career. That includes his 20.5 sacks. That means he only made 7.5 tfl beyond his sacks. That is horrible.

The guy had absolutely no impact other than his sacks, which maxed out at 10.5 in the 2013 season.

How does that relate to productive?

Apparently I'm missing something here.
It's pretty obvious that Dee Ford was not a finished product last year and he kept getting better and better as time went on.
You can't really ask for much from him in terms of coverage bc he rarely did that at Auburn.
Looking at his tape, his run stopping problems seem to be bc he is over pursuing. This would be coachable and I bet that's the thought behind this.
He still needs to get stronger, but a year in an nfl weight training program should help.

Dorsey is picking players based on potential and he's starting them off slow. He did it with Fisher and now he's doing it with Ford. Let's see what happens.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:32 PM   #57
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over-achieving schlub who puts up meaningless numbers and isn't in any way a game changer...aka a guard
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:13 PM   #58
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I am in total agreement with Sac on Ford. I see nothing but a huge neon sign flashing BUST BUST BUST.... it could be BUSTS BUSTS BUSTS and I'm half drunk in front of a strip club...

In any event, yes, guys like Dee Ford turn it on in the pros and become very good players, such as Dontari Poe. Those stories are rare. There are far more Vernon Gholstons of the world. I'm very worried KC wasted a 1st round pick given what I seen from the kid in college, as I was with Poe. I do hope they strike lightning in a bottle twice, but the odds are forever not in their favor.. ,
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:58 PM   #59
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I dont think Ford is a high risk of being a flat out bust, but I do think that he is a risk of never being anything more than a situational pass rusher. That being said, he can have a long and productive career in such a limited role.

Robert Mathis is a guy with a similar build. He had 20 combined tackles and 3.5 sacks in his rookie yr as a situational pass rusher. In his second yr he had 10.5 sacks and 36 combined tackles. That being said, Mathis forced a lot of fumbles.

The good thing is that Dee Ford is far from a finished product and is open to coaching. Here is an example:

Quote:
Ford's also an impressive technician, consulting with pass-rush specialist and former NFL defensive end Chuck Smith to refine his technique before the season, and in Mobile, Ford frequently consulted with Smith to review his practice performance.

During the offseason, Smith made an adjustment to Ford's speed rush, teaching him to bend toward the quarterback on the fourth step instead of the third, a minor tweak that allows Ford to completely clear the tackle.

In Mobile, Ford used the technique time and time again, blowing by tackles outside in one-on-one pass rushing situations, then using his flexibility to stay low, create leverage and turn the corner to the quarterback.

"His ability to learn and translate, take the information and put it on the field, that's what separates Dee Ford," Smith said. "Smart pass rushers learn real fast that technique beats talent."
I have read stories of Houston praising Hali for teaching him so much about being a pro. Already Hali has taken Dee Ford under his wing (who is already playing piano with Hali's daughter). Ford will have every opportunity to maximize his natural talents with the help of Hali and Houston. Thats the most we can ask for at this point.
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:35 AM   #60
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I am in total agreement with Sac on Ford. I see nothing but a huge neon sign flashing BUST BUST BUST.... it could be BUSTS BUSTS BUSTS and I'm half drunk in front of a strip club...

In any event, yes, guys like Dee Ford turn it on in the pros and become very good players, such as Dontari Poe. Those stories are rare. There are far more Vernon Gholstons of the world. I'm very worried KC wasted a 1st round pick given what I seen from the kid in college, as I was with Poe. I do hope they strike lightning in a bottle twice, but the odds are forever not in their favor.. ,
I don't see how this is like Poe? Ford made huge impacts in several games against the best competition in the country.
He seems very willing to learn and has great confidence. He doesn't appear to be lazy to me.
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