The Fermi Paradox - Why we haven't been contacted by aliens

[wazu]

Originally Posted by alnorth

I've thought about this a few times before.

I do not believe in the theory that there's a lot of civiliations out there who choose not to talk to us. I also think the theory that civilizations naturally destroy themselves is dumb. Even if you think humans are assholes, some portion of intelligent species out there would be enlightened enough not to kill themselves.

I believe there is a great filter, and that the filter is ahead of us. I think that filter is simply "unable to travel near the speed of light, and unable to warp space".

If you can't travel near or faster than the speed of light, then the mind-boggling vastness of space really puts a damper on any civilization's ability to survive the death of their star, much less colonize other planets.

If we're still alive when our star gets perilously close to cooking our planet, I imagine we'll try sending out generation ships out of desperation, and they'll probably fail. The End.

I agree with your take. But I think this article alludes to the same thing with the "Great Filter". Doesn't mean we are wiped out, but our intellectual capacity could simply peak and the concepts needed to rise farther are beyond us. Or it might actually just be physically impossible, no matter how smart we are or how much we learn.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by wazu

Doesn't mean we are wiped out, but our intellectual capacity could simply peak and the concepts needed to rise farther are beyond us. Or it might actually just be physically impossible, no matter how smart we are or how much we learn.

I disagree. We have not even began to tap our brains potential. Studies have shown that we could possibly be using as low as 10% of our brains potential.

[wazu]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I disagree. We have not even began to tap our brains potential. Studies have shown that we could possibly be using as low as 10% of our brains potential.

I think we continue to climb, but evolution-wise, you don't have to be very smart to produce offspring who produce other offspring, and so on. No reason to think our brains are on some course for superpowered intelligence.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by wazu

I think we continue to climb, but evolution-wise, you don't have to be very smart to produce offspring who produce other offspring, and so on. No reason to think our brains are on some course for superpowered intelligence.

No, there is no reason to think we will evolve into a "super powered intelligence" species. However, I think we will be able to master warp speed or travel at the speed of light. That will ensure our survival as a species.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Studies have shown that we could possibly be using as low as 10% of our brains potential.

This is a myth. Over the course of a day you eventually use every part of your brain. There's no reason to think we have a savant lurking inside each of us.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by alnorth

There's no reason to think we have a savant lurking inside each of us.

I don't think we need to be "savant" or super intelligence" species to be able to travel at the speed of sound.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I don't think we need to be "savant" or super intelligence" species to be able to travel at the speed of sound.

The speed of sound is not a particularly difficult achievement as far as physics is concerned.

The speed of light, or even coming very close to it if you want to think about relativistic travel, is an extremely daunting physics challenge, and comes very close to "pretty much impossible".

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by alnorth

The speed of sound is not a particularly difficult achievement as far as physics is concerned.

The speed of light, or even coming very close to it if you want to think about relativistic travel, is an extremely daunting physics challenge, and comes very close to "pretty much impossible".

Sorry, I meant light.

And of course it seems "pretty much impossible" today. We thought black holes were a myth 50 years ago. Convinced the world was flat 400 years ago. etc. etc.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Sorry, I meant light.

And of course it seems "pretty much impossible" today. We thought black holes were a myth 50 years ago. Convinced the world was flat 400 years ago. etc. etc.

At this point, the only possibility I'm conceding is a warp drive. And even that requires some exotic materials that probably do not exist. The laws of physics are pretty clear that matter can not travel at the speed of light, even a single atom using nearly infinite energy. The only way around it is to cheat by moving at a normal speed through warped space.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Sorry, I meant light.

And of course it seems "pretty much impossible" today. We thought black holes were a myth 50 years ago. Convinced the world was flat 400 years ago. etc. etc.

Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth a couple of hundred years BC. Columbus had this knowledge when he sailed, although he thought the numbers were off.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by alnorth

This is a myth. Over the course of a day you eventually use every part of your brain. There's no reason to think we have a savant lurking inside each of us.

Well, there's definitely some mystery to that because there have been many cases where brain damage has unlocked ubergenius abilities in otherwise ordinary folks.

[Third Eye]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I disagree. We have not even began to tap our brains potential. Studies have shown that we could possibly be using as low as 10% of our brains potential.

That is one of the greatest myths still in circulation.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...cent-of-brain/

Edit: oops, somebody best me to it.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by wazu

I agree with your take. But I think this article alludes to the same thing with the "Great Filter". Doesn't mean we are wiped out, but our intellectual capacity could simply peak and the concepts needed to rise farther are beyond us. Or it might actually just be physically impossible, no matter how smart we are or how much we learn.

I'm not equating the great filter with us dying (though that could be it, if you think the great filter is natural disasters, for example), the great filter (the answer to "where is everybody") is that no one can really get to any other star because space is too damned vast.

I just morbidly continued on from where we get stuck in our advancement to our likely demise.

[wazu]

Originally Posted by alnorth

I'm not equating the great filter with us dying (though that could be it, if you think the great filter is natural disasters, for example), the great filter (the answer to "where is everybody") is that no one can really get to any other star because space is too damned vast.

I just morbidly continued on from where we get stuck in our advancement to our likely demise.

This seems most likely to me as well. The "colonization" approach that the article covers gave me pause, though. Kind of breaks that down over a long enough timeline. Fascinating stuff.

[alnorth]

I do think there's a chance that we may detect a faint signal someday. We'd know roughly where it came from, but probably wouldn't be able to make sense of it other than its unnatural.

But then what? We'd be detecting the trace of what a civilization was sending out at least millennia ago, if not millions or billions of years ago, we'd never be able to have a conversation or see each other, and they would probably be dead by the time we got the signal. It would just be stuff for poets and philosophers to talk about.