Jameis Winston

[Eleazar]

Not many around the league are going to be fooled about his maturity and his "makeup". After Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson, it's even more of a concern than ever. Some teams will take a guy completely off their draft board if they think he is a bad character/makeup guy.

Winston has all the hallmarks of being a bad makeup player. Shoplifting, missing meetings, stupid behavior that isn't serious but shows he doesn't think before speaking or acting, taking liberties with women... he thinks rules don't apply to him. He's been coddled at FSU and behavior that would have gotten players suspended or booted from other teams has been excused. He has never been held to account for his actions and has always got the star treatment. People like this get to the NFL level and fail because they have never had to work for it before.

These are some of the same things people said about Geno Smith, or Manziel, that they had an entitled attitude and felt like they'd already "arrived". They figured they would just show up and ball. Now they are finding out that a lot of better people than they are have failed before them, and they aren't going to succeed by coasting through life as they have up until now.

Teams don't care that he wasn't charged with the rape, or that FSU investigated itself and the same people who made the decision found that they agreed with the decision. They care about his immature and risk-taking behavior and what else they might uncover about him off the field. They are going to talk to everyone around him, not just the people he puts forward who are going to say he's great and wouldn't say if he was a turd anyway. He has a longstanding pattern of immature and irresponsible behavior so there is probably plenty to uncover.

Someone will fall in love with his athleticism and make the same mistake teams always make on guys like this, they think they can step in and raise him. But a lot of teams won't even consider someone like this, especially at the QB position which already has the highest failure rate and is the most difficult to transition to.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Cochise

Not many around the league are going to be fooled about his maturity and his "makeup". After Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson, it's even more of a concern than ever. Some teams will take a guy completely off their draft board if they think he is a bad character/makeup guy.

Winston has all the hallmarks of being a bad makeup player. Shoplifting, missing meetings, stupid behavior that isn't serious but shows he doesn't think before speaking or acting, taking liberties with women... he thinks rules don't apply to him. He's been coddled at FSU and behavior that would have gotten players suspended or booted from other teams has been excused. He has never been held to account for his actions and has always got the star treatment. People like this get to the NFL level and fail because they have never had to work for it before.

These are some of the same things people said about Geno Smith, or Manziel, that they had an entitled attitude and felt like they'd already "arrived". They figured they would just show up and ball. Now they are finding out that a lot of better people than they are have failed before them, and they aren't going to succeed by coasting through life as they have up until now.

Teams don't care that he wasn't charged with the rape, or that FSU investigated itself and the same people who made the decision found that they agreed with the decision. They care about his immature and risk-taking behavior and what else they might uncover about him off the field. They are going to talk to everyone around him, not just the people he puts forward who are going to say he's great and wouldn't say if he was a turd anyway. He has a longstanding pattern of immature and irresponsible behavior so there is probably plenty to uncover.

Someone will fall in love with his athleticism and make the same mistake teams always make on guys like this, they think they can step in and raise him. But a lot of teams won't even consider someone like this, especially at the QB position which already has the highest failure rate and is the most difficult to transition to.

This.

Sorry to burst the bubble of anyone with a man-crush on the cocoa penii of Winston...but that's the troof.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

This.

Sorry to burst the bubble of anyone with a man-crush on the cocoa penii of Winston...but that's the troof.

Good thing I'm not a guy. Pheeeew, I am cleared.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by Cochise

Winston has all the hallmarks of being a bad makeup player. Shoplifting,

One incident.

missing meetings,

Oh the humanity! Please provide a link on this.

stupid behavior that isn't serious but shows he doesn't think before speaking or acting,

taking liberties with women...

Oh multiple incidents now? Do you have inside information?

he thinks rules don't apply to him.

Such as?

He's been coddled at FSU and behavior that would have gotten players suspended or booted from other teams has been excused.

False. He was suspended for the crab legs and did community service for time.

He was suspended for the student union incident which was BS. None of the students thought that mattered, because well others do it too. He was simply copying a meme. It only got blown out of proportion because of social media. Maturity issue for someone who has media attention on him? Sure.

He has never been held to account for his actions and has always got the star treatment.

People who resort to broad sweeping generalities are engaging in hyperbole to suit their own personal antagonisms. Ever hear an angry man tell the truth? They usually don't. Their anger gets in the way. Sociopaths resort to over generalizations when combined with some false reports.

"Always"getting star treatment? That's why he was punished for the crab legs and suspended? That's why he was suspended for the student union incident?
The reported facts do NOT support your claims. You must be a UF fan. Thye had Hernandez who had his record concealed regarding a gun incident where someone was shot, because he was still a youth. Now he's in legal trouble for double murder.

People like this get to the NFL level and fail because they have never had to work for it before.

Totally different matter than what's been said about Winston's guilt. True about many others and not true for many others as well.

Teams don't care that he wasn't charged with the rape, or that FSU investigated itself and the same people who made the decision found that they agreed with the decision.

More non facts and innuendo. FSU hired an independent judge for the hearing on Winston.

He has a longstanding pattern of immature and irresponsible behavior so there is probably plenty to uncover.

How longstanding has it been? Was he like this back at home in Alabama too? Please establish a factual timeline on this "longstanding" pattern.

I can see thinking he's immature and even irresponsible. But I've also learned from people who personally know him that he's known as a goofball. He jokes a lot. But he is well liked actually. Even the coach has said his enthusiasm drives the team and has had a good effect on it. So he possesses some leadership qualities at least.

Someone will fall in love with his athleticism and make the same mistake teams always make on guys like this, they think they can step in and raise him. But a lot of teams won't even consider someone like this, especially at the QB position which already has the highest failure rate and is the most difficult to transition to.

Yet, some will. Afterall, 20% of those in the NFL have been ghetto thugs. But it gives them a chance to get out of that. I don't know if that is the background of Jameis as he grew up outside Birmingham Alabama. Doesn't seem like it.

In the meantime, Jameis said the rape charge hurt his reputation. His legal team is also considering further legal action.

All I asked for in this thread, is for a certain poster to back a claim of multiple thefts and upset businessmen over such an allegation. I've not heard that. I prefer facts—not innuendo. I have no issue with Jameis needing to mature and grow up, as he is a celebrity figure and needs to act differently.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

One incident.


Oh the humanity! Please provide a link on this.





Oh multiple incidents now? Do you have inside information?



Such as?



False. He was suspended for the crab legs and did community service for time.

He was suspended for the student union incident which was BS. None of the students thought that mattered, because well others do it too. He was simply copying a meme. It only got blown out of proportion because of social media.



People who resort to broad sweeping generalities are engaging in hyperbole to suit their own personal antagonisms. Ever hear an angry man tell the truth? They usually don't. Their anger gets in the way. Sociopaths resort to over generalizations when combined with some false reports.

Always getting star treatment? That's why he was punished for the crab legs and suspended? That's why he was suspended for the student union incident?
The reported facts do NOT support your claims. You must be a UF fan.



Totally different matter than what's been said about Winston's guilt.





More non facts and innuendo. FSU hired an independent judge for the hearing on Winston.



How longstanding has it been? Was he like this back at home in Alabama too? Please establish a factual timeline on this "longstanding" pattern.

I can he's immature. But I've also learned from people who personally know him that he's known as a goofball. He jokes a lot. But he is well liked actually. Even the coach has said his enthusiasm drives the team and has had a good effect on it.


Yet, some will. Afterall, 20% of those in the NFL have been ghetto thugs. But it gives them a chance to get out of that. I don't know if that is the background of Jameis as he grew up outside Birmingham Alabama.

In the meantime, Jameis said the rape charge hurt his reputation. His legal team is also considering further legal action.

All I asked for in this thread, is for a certain poster to back a claim of multiple thefts and upset businessmen over such an allegation. I've not heard that. I prefer facts—not innuendo. I have no issue with Jameis needing to mature and grow up, as he is a celebrity figure and needs to act differently.

^because of ALL of this, if I'm an NFL GM, I pass on Winston.

I want nothing to do with any of this.

Whatever you feel, is how YOU feel.

I feel no connection nor obligation to Winston. I call him that because I can't spell his first name...because I don't give a shit. He's the rapist/thief/student union meme guy who makes bad decision after bad decision, and I don't want him on my team.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

^because of ALL of this, if I'm an NFL GM, I pass on Winston.

I want nothing to do with any of this.

Whatever you feel, is how YOU feel.

I feel no connection nor obligation to Winston. I call him that because I can't spell his first name...because I don't give a shit. He's the rapist/thief/student union meme guy who makes bad decision after bad decision, and I don't want him on my team.

I wasn't addressing you or your desire to want nothing to do with any of that. I got that. I haven't criticized THAT. That post was written to correct some of the falsehoods and exaggerations being made by Cochise if'n ya' noticed. Can you read?

Apparently, you are having quite a bit to do with this based on your continuing to challenge other points I am am correcting. Again, I am addressing someone's alleged claims and exaggerations including this idea that recent FSU hearing was merely protecting themselves when they hired an outside independent judge.

That's all I am doing here demanding facts.

[Dante84]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

One incident.
Wrong.

Oh the humanity! Please provide a link on this.
I provided links

Oh multiple incidents now? Do you have inside information?
Yep, inside the national news

Such as?
Links provided earlier


He was suspended for the student union incident which was BS. None of the students thought that mattered, because well others do it too. He was simply copying a meme. It only got blown out of proportion because of social media. Maturity issue for someone who has media attention on him? Sure.
He's a goddamned Heisman QB vying for a 2nd national championship. He's not a 'normal college student.' They were right to suspend him, and only did so because it was yet another misstep in a series of missteps. It wasn't a stand-alone incident.

People who resort to broad sweeping generalities are engaging in hyperbole to suit their own personal antagonisms. Ever hear an angry man tell the truth? They usually don't. Their anger gets in the way. Sociopaths resort to over generalizations when combined with some false reports.
Facts is facts.

"Always"getting star treatment? That's why he was punished for the crab legs and suspended? That's why he was suspended for the student union incident?
The reported facts do NOT support your claims. You must be a UF fan. Thye had Hernandez who had his record concealed regarding a gun incident where someone was shot, because he was still a youth. Now he's in legal trouble for double murder.
NY Times: At Florida State, Football Clouds Justice.

Totally different matter than what's been said about Winston's guilt. True about many others and not true for many others as well.
Not everything said is true. That said, many things are true.

How longstanding has it been? Was he like this back at home in Alabama too? Please establish a factual timeline on this "longstanding" pattern.
There's enough evidence in his short time in Talahassee.

I can see thinking he's immature and even irresponsible. But I've also learned from people who personally know him that he's known as a goofball. He jokes a lot. But he is well liked actually. Even the coach has said his enthusiasm drives the team and has had a good effect on it. So he possesses some leadership qualities at least.
Hitler was a good leader. So was Manson. Being a good leader can be a very bad thing, sometimes.

All I asked for in this thread, is for a certain poster to back a claim of multiple thefts and upset businessmen over such an allegation. I've not heard that. I prefer facts—not innuendo. I have no issue with Jameis needing to mature and grow up, as he is a celebrity figure and needs to act differently.
Facts provided.

.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by DA_T_84

.

They were right to suspend him,...

Where did I say it wasn't? I stated it as a matter of fact that he was punished for it.

and only did so because it was yet another misstep in a series of missteps.
Series?

He's cleared on rape, student union charge was bogus. You've got two theft incidents. That's not a series. Sorry but I disagree.

Oh really, you compare Winston to Hitler now. You're gonna drag politics into this? Now if I respond to how irrelevant Godwin's law is, I will be blasted for making a political comment in the Lounge. But here goes:

"memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons."

I'm the one trying to reduce the hyperbolic comparisons not some of the others here. That's one reason why it's not relevant, the other is he's an athlete playing football—not a political leader of a government that is armed to the teeth which can crush and murder others.

[Dante84]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Where did I say it wasn't? I stated it as a matter of fact that he was punished for it.



He's cleared on rape, student union charge was bogus. You've got two theft incidents. That's not a series. Sorry but I disagree.

Oh really, you compare Winston to Hitler now. You're gonna drag politics into this? Now if I respond to how irrelevant Godwin's law is, I will be blasted for making a political comment in the Lounge. But here goes:

"memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons."

I'm the one trying to reduce the hyperbolic comparisons not some of the others here. That's one reason why it's not relevant, the other is he's an athlete playing football—not a political leader of a government that is armed to the teeth which can crush and murder others.

I never compared him to Hitler.

I simply said Hitler was a good leader, to illustrate that being a good leader and a good person who achieves good results are not mutually inclusive.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by DA_T_84

I simply said Hitler was a good leader, to illustrate that being a good leader and a good person who achieves good results are not mutually inclusive.

Hitler also got results.

I'm not sure what your point is either...

[Dante84]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Hitler also got results.

I'm not sure what your point is either...

I said "good" results, meaning, for the good of humanity.

I'll be concerned if your next post challenges that.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by DA_T_84

I never compared him to Hitler.

I simply said Hitler was a good leader, to illustrate that being a good leader and a good person who achieves good results are not mutually inclusive.

It's still irrelevant and relies on hyperbole. If Jameis is capable of motivating his team members to win, including lacking the talent they had the previous year, that's a good ability. His off field issues haven't hurt his performance as much as it could have. In fact he plays better under controversy. I think if you research a lot of leaders, including those found to be good ones, you'll find some dirt. And you'll find a lot of good people who are lousy leaders too. Even the saints had lice.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Where did I say it wasn't? I stated it as a matter of fact that he was punished for it.



He's cleared on rape, student union charge was bogus. You've got two theft incidents. That's not a series. Sorry but I disagree.

Oh really, you compare Winston to Hitler now. You're gonna drag politics into this? Now if I respond to how irrelevant Godwin's law is, I will be blasted for making a political comment in the Lounge. But here goes:

"memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons."

I'm the one trying to reduce the hyperbolic comparisons not some of the others here. That's one reason why it's not relevant, the other is he's an athlete playing football—not a political leader of a government that is armed to the teeth which can crush and murder others.

sideline reporter: how do you FEEEEEEL?

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Where did I say it wasn't? I stated it as a matter of fact that he was punished for it.



He's cleared on rape, student union charge was bogus. You've got two theft incidents. That's not a series. Sorry but I disagree.

Oh really, you compare Winston to Hitler now. You're gonna drag politics into this? Now if I respond to how irrelevant Godwin's law is, I will be blasted for making a political comment in the Lounge. But here goes:

"memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons."

I'm the one trying to reduce the hyperbolic comparisons not some of the others here. That's one reason why it's not relevant, the other is he's an athlete playing football—not a political leader of a government that is armed to the teeth which can crush and murder others.

You are ****ing nuts, what about the autograph issue? What happened there?



The guy has so much smoke something HAS to be burning

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by DA_T_84

.

I plan on addressing some of your other points in this post, but don't have time. Tho' I have read you NY Times link which is about other football players for a general charge of the claim football players are protected—as if it's not true elsewhere. It does nothing to address what I said about Jameis Winston per se.

Also, just because the national media says things, doesn't make it completely true. They can omit information that paints something in a false light. I have issues with the major media and have long before this. They can ruin reputations. Scandal sells. Plus the NYT's claims they write "all the news that's fit to print." Or some version of that. Says enough.

You did not provide links in the post of yours that I originally quoted. I believe that was Post #76. I have had to go back through to see who said what as I addressed two posters on this and can get them confused as I am not familiar with the screen names. I see the other one was rabblerouser after checking. So I need to go back, read your entire above post and put points in sequence. Just don't have time right now. Need to run errands for the holiday before it's too late here. I have copy and pasted the above into a word doc with some previous posts for now.

But again, I am only addressing the exaggerations and hyperbole. You have every right to not want Winston for your team and for the reasons you state. I just wanted to correct certain exaggerations.