National Baseball Hall of Fame class of 2015

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Smoltz first ballot. GTFO

Congrats, Craig Biggio!!

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Pedro and Randy, no surprise

Bagwell snubbed again
Piazza snubbed

[gblowfish]

They weren't going to do two Astros on one ballot. And Bagwell had some suspicion on Roids, didn't he?

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Yes. Suspicions surround Bagwell. With good reason, but he was always right there with Frank Thomas who is absolved of any suspicion because he was tall and fat.

[KC_Connection]

All the guys that made it in were deserving (even though there should have been a lot more), but I haven't given a shit about the baseball HOF since they kept Bonds/Clemens out the first time. Such a ridiculous process.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Rudy lost the toss

Yes. Suspicions surround Bagwell. With good reason, but he was always right there with Frank Thomas who is absolved of any suspicion because he was tall and fat.

Seems odd to me that there isn't there any suspicion around Randy Johnson (at least enough for the voters to knock him down like they do with Bagwell/Piazza). The guy peaked in his mid 30s and was a monster into his 40s.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Biggio is an absolutely terrible selection. Fifteen percent better than average offensively over the course of his career, and all of a sudden put up his two highest HR seasons of his career in his age 39 and 40 seasons, but he's clean.

Horseshit.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Biggio is an absolutely terrible selection. Fifteen percent better than average offensively over the course of his career, and all of a sudden put up his two highest HR seasons of his career in his age 39 and 40 seasons, but he's clean.

Horseshit.

Biggio did have a higher career WAR than Alomar, so I think a case can certainly be made for him. Why he gets in above all those other better HOF caliber players, though, I have no idea.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Alomar had 1.2 fewer fWAR over 3 fewer seasons, had better offensive numbers and was a far, far superior defensive player.

[gblowfish]

Biggio is the first pure Astros player to make it in. On the PED issue, I think Bonds and Clemens will make it in someday, after some of the old guard baseball writers croak off. But for the current BBWA, character still matters. Drug Cheating was pervasive for 20 years in baseball while owners looked the other way. And don't compare doing greenies in the 60's or doing coke in the '80s to PEDs. A greenie or coke wouldn't expand your hat size and shoe size (aka Barry Bonds) or help you hit the ball an extra 40 feet farther. Olympic medals have been forfeited over PEDs. It was just plain cheating. There's probably guys in the HOF already who did PED's -I think Frank Thomas and Cal Ripken are both suspect- but until the old school BBWA writers start to croak off, they'll hold it against that generation of players. Pete Rose will probably get in too, after he's dead.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Biggio is an absolutely terrible selection. Fifteen percent better than average offensively over the course of his career, and all of a sudden put up his two highest HR seasons of his career in his age 39 and 40 seasons, but he's clean.

Horseshit.

It's kind of funny/ironic that Biggio makes it in with no real trouble while several more deserving players don't because of steroids implications - when some of those players have nothing to tie them to steroids other than the era/rumors.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Biggio is an absolutely terrible selection. Fifteen percent better than average offensively over the course of his career, and all of a sudden put up his two highest HR seasons of his career in his age 39 and 40 seasons, but he's clean.

Horseshit.

I didn't realize how stupid you were until I read this. IF those arent HOF numbers for a 2nd Baseman - I don't know what are...

G 2,850
BA .281
OBP .363 .
OPS+ 112
H 3,060
2B 668
HR 291
TB 4,711
RBI 1,175
R 1,844
SB 414
WAR 65.1

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by TEX

I didn't realize how stupid you were until I read this. IF those arent HOF numbers for a 2nd Baseman - I don't know what are...

G 2,850
BA .281
OBP .363 .
OPS+ 112
H 3,060
2B 668
HR 291
TB 4,711
RBI 1,175
R 1,844
SB 414
WAR 65.1

The point is that it is intellectually dishonest to vote Biggio in while NOT voting in other guys because of steroids. Considering Biggio has one of the HUGEST indicators of steroid use on his record, and no one is talking about it.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

They weren't going to do two Astros on one ballot. And Bagwell had some suspicion on Roids, didn't he?

Yes & No. No real connection at all. None of the players who "ratted" out others and none of the FBI investigations ever said anything about it. Many argue that it's because he did not take them that he could not get over shoulder injury that ended his career...

Below is an excerpt from an ESPN Article

Bagwell has never been linked to performance-enhancers beyond hearsay and innuendo, yet he lives under the same cloud of suspicion as players who have failed drug tests, lied before Congress or admitted to steroid use.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof11/...ory?id=5963276

[TEX]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

The point is that it is intellectually dishonest to vote Biggio in while NOT voting in other guys because of steroids. Considering Biggio has one of the HUGEST indicators of steroid use on his record, and no one is talking about it.

"Highest indicators of steroid use" - oh do tell...Please show me the evidence, even if its speculative in nature, where he is linked to using, much less like the others. I know this man. Dude is CLEAN in everything he does. One of the GOOD guys, who actually played by the rules. He's above idiots like you who want to taint his accomplishments.