It's been a long time coming. Adiós.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's time for me to bow out. It's been almost 10 years, and I'm tired.

Tired of the false narratives. Tired of people arguing the poster instead of the post. Tired of discussing football with people who favor excuses over evidence. Tired of wasting time talking about an organization that hasn't won a playoff game in the lifetime of a college senior. Tired of watching other great posters leaving entirely or posting less, weakening the Football IQ this place was known for 5-10 years ago.

I know posting a thread instead of just walking away will open the door for many to take their cheap shots - we all know who they are - and if you don't, just wait. They'll show themselves. Those of you that know me privately know this has been building for a long time.

With all that said, I'll say what I've always said: This team has talent, but will continually fall short as long as they keep thinking you can win in the postseason consistently with average QB play. You don't put enough pressure on the opposing defense, and it puts too much pressure on your defense - if they don't have a near-perfect day, you lose.

Peters and Conley were great picks and should make an impact in the years to come. Should be fun to watch. (What? According to some, I NEVER say anything positive - just another false narrative) While I doubt he'll get his shot, I'd like to see if Murray can be that franchise guy, or if he fell for reasons other than what people here assume - namely, his height and injury history. Hopefully they get Houston signed long-term, because if they don't they are in deep, deep shit. The defense tends to carry this team, and Houston is the most important cog in said defense.

I've made a lot of great friends here that are still friends to this day, and will continue to be. This place was awesome when it was more community based - when there would be gatherings, tailgates, etc. Now, it's littered with trolls that take advantage of the anonymity of the internet and would never show their face in public. That attitude has weakened this place considerably, IMHO.

For those of you I call a friend, we'll be in touch. If anyone that isn't already a friend privately or on Facebook/Twitter wants to continue to keep in touch, I'll keep my PM's open for a week or so.

Thanks, Kyle. It was fun for a while. Queue the "well, bye/sour grapes" posts in 3...2...1.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by Cochise

Well, they traded what, 3 firsts and some change to move up from the top 10 to #2 and get him? Someone whose body was never going to hold up in the league and can't make the reads needed for a true NFL offense.

So RG3 would still be an unquestioned bust if he was picked by a team that only had to burn one draft pick to get him and had the benefit of sitting behind a veteran for at least two seasons to allow for enough time -physically and mentally- to get accustomed to an actual NFL offense?

There was absolutely no downside to drafting Bridgewater in '14. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. You draft Teddy and let him sit behind Alex for a minimum of two seasons with a supposed QB guru in Andy Reid getting him ready to take the reigns of the offense whenever he's deemed fit which would probably be the 2018 season.

AKA the exact same thing Green Bay did with Rodgers and Favre in 2005.. That decision made with John Dorsey heading up college scouting for the Packers at that time.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by Cochise

I suppose the worst case scenario for a QB bust is that you set your franchise back 3-4 years and by then your roster has aged out, your GM and HC have run out of time, so you end up starting over after a housecleaning. Maybe draft pick poor because of what it took you to move up.

EJ Manuel was arguably the biggest QB draft bust since Washington and RG3. But that decision hasn't set the Bills back any, did it? They're in the ballpark of 8-8 with the possibility of Matt Cassel or Tyrod Taylor starting under center for them and have been given the same odds of winning the Super Bowl this season that KC has with a supposedly better QB and overall team.

Yeah. Manuel's failure as an NFL prospect really set back Buffalo, didn't it.

[Discuss Thrower]

Jackonsville never really recovered from the abortion that was drafting Blaine Gabbert.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Cochise

I suppose the worst case scenario for a QB bust is that you set your franchise back 3-4 years and by then your roster has aged out, your GM and HC have run out of time, so you end up starting over after a housecleaning. Maybe draft pick poor because of what it took you to move up.

Or, your roster and team completely disintegrates because the current people in charge feel that their 2nd round QB is far superior to their former #1 overall, so they ship him off for two 2nd rounders, only to see their franchise break up in mid-air.

But what am I saying? That never happens!

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

So RG3 would still be an unquestioned bust if he was picked by a team that only had to burn one draft pick to get him and had the benefit of sitting behind a veteran for at least two seasons to allow for enough time -physically and mentally- to get accustomed to an actual NFL offense?

There was absolutely no downside to drafting Bridgewater in '14. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. You draft Teddy and let him sit behind Alex for a minimum of two seasons with a supposed QB guru in Andy Reid getting him ready to take the reigns of the offense whenever he's deemed fit which would probably be the 2018 season.

AKA the exact same thing Green Bay did with Rodgers and Favre in 2005.. That decision made with John Dorsey heading up college scouting for the Packers at that time.

Hey guy. If you piss away a first on a QB then your roster is depleted by not having the likes of Eric Fisher and Jon Baldwin!

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

Jackonsville never really recovered from the abortion that was drafting Blaine Gabbert.

Since the Mark Brunell era ended, Jacksonville has done what people keep saying we should do. They drafted Byron Leftwich, he didn't work out so (after playing Garrarrd, a fourth round pick for a while) they drafted Gabbert, he didn't work out so they drafted Bortles.

So what they really never recovered from was a good QB moving on > 10 years ago.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

EJ Manuel was arguably the biggest QB draft bust since Washington and RG3. But that decision hasn't set the Bills back any, did it? They're in the ballpark of 8-8 with the possibility of Matt Cassel or Tyrod Taylor starting under center for them and have been given the same odds of winning the Super Bowl this season that KC has with a supposedly better QB and overall team.

Yeah. Manuel's failure as an NFL prospect really set back Buffalo, didn't it.

The Bills were without a QB after Bledsoe's career ended, so they spent a first on JP Losman. Then after sputtering through Edwards (draftee) and Fitzpatrick (FA) they drafted Manuel and busted again.

So much like Jacksonville, the Bills have been looking for a QB for a decade, although they have only spent 2 firsts on QBs rather than 3 in that time.

[Bearcat]

If you're unemployed, you're better off waiting for that once in a decade perfect job to come along and not applying for anything else, because after all, some people who apply for several jobs are still unemployed and there's no guarantee that even the slightly less than perfect jobs will work out. And don't even think about browsing other jobs if you think your job is ending soon or may not work out, only worry about that when you don't have one.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Cochise

They've drafted plenty of QBs, they just haven't drafted one in the first round.

So are you saying that Clark is behind his desk somewhere telling everyone they'll be fired if they try to pick a QB in the 1st round?

Is he screening GM and HC candidates by warning them they shall never draft one in the 1st, ever?

Clark looks around at most super bowl winning teams and sees that they have this thing in common, and he says "Nope!"

Come on.

There are subtle ways for ownership to communicate team policy in the hiring process.
The first moves of the last two GMs was exactly the same, exactly, only the names were different.
Coincidence? I think not.
The evidence supports this, to ignore it borders on naivety.
I no longer get upset on draft day when they don't draft one, because I know they won't. I am at piece with it and enjoy them for who they are.

[eDave]

OTW lives on via this redundant circlejerk. He knew what he was doing.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

If you're unemployed, you're better off waiting for that once in a decade perfect job to come along and not applying for anything else, because after all, some people who apply for several jobs are still unemployed and there's no guarantee that even the slightly less than perfect jobs will work out. And don't even think about browsing other jobs if you think your job is ending soon or may not work out, only worry about that when you don't have one.

Never said that or anything like that.

We've just discussed two teams that followed the CP prescription, and they have been pathetic for a decade because they came up collectively 0/5 on the 1st round QBs.

That is not to say that drafting a QB is not what we should do, we definitely should do it the next time we have one that we think is among the 20% or so of first rounders that stick as starters. It's just a statement of fact about the odds being heavily stacked against you.

I don't think we could find any team in the league that has followed the CP prescription of "1st round QB regardless of draft position, start him from day 1, if he sucks after year 2 give up and draft another, rinse repeat", but the closest followers do not have success stories.

Of course, people will say "They picked the wrong guys, they should have drafted better" but the consensus on most of these QB is pretty close. Everyone agreed that Gabbert was a top 15 or so pick for example.

There isn't a franchise QB in the draft every year. The intelligent way would be to target them as individuals and not pick one - any one - just because you are QB poor at the moment, but that seems to be what people here want. That drafting any 1st round QB is always the right decision, but wishing don't make it so.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Cochise

Never said that or anything like that.

We've just discussed two teams that followed the CP prescription, and they have been pathetic for a decade because they came up collectively 0/5 on the 1st round QBs.

That is not to say that drafting a QB is not what we should do, we definitely should do it the next time we have one that we think is among the 20% or so of first rounders that stick as starters. It's just a statement of fact about the odds being heavily stacked against you.

I don't think we could find any team in the league that has followed the CP prescription of "1st round QB regardless of draft position, start him from day 1, if he sucks after year 2 give up and draft another, rinse repeat", but the closest followers do not have success stories.

Of course, people will say "They picked the wrong guys, they should have drafted better" but the consensus on most of these QB is pretty close. Everyone agreed that Gabbert was a top 15 or so pick for example.

There isn't a franchise QB in the draft every year. The intelligent way would be to target them as individuals and not pick one - any one - just because you are QB poor at the moment, but that seems to be what people here want. That drafting any 1st round QB is always the right decision, but wishing don't make it so.

I think most have softened on the 1st round or bust thing but the fact that 7 of the final 8 playoff teams had QBs drafted or signed as a rookie FA by their original team.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Cochise

Never said that or anything like that.

We've just discussed two teams that followed the CP prescription, and they have been pathetic for a decade because they came up collectively 0/5 on the 1st round QBs.

That is not to say that drafting a QB is not what we should do, we definitely should do it the next time we have one that we think is among the 20% or so of first rounders that stick as starters. It's just a statement of fact about the odds being heavily stacked against you.

I don't think we could find any team in the league that has followed the CP prescription of "1st round QB regardless of draft position, start him from day 1, if he sucks after year 2 give up and draft another, rinse repeat", but the closest followers do not have success stories.

Of course, people will say "They picked the wrong guys, they should have drafted better" but the consensus on most of these QB is pretty close. Everyone agreed that Gabbert was a top 15 or so pick for example.

There isn't a franchise QB in the draft every year. The intelligent way would be to target them as individuals and not pick one - any one - just because you are QB poor at the moment, but that seems to be what people here want. That drafting any 1st round QB is always the right decision, but wishing don't make it so.

I think most have softened on the 1st round or bust thing but the fact that 7 of the final 8 playoff teams had QBs drafted or signed as a rookie FA by their original team tells you that is the way to go if your goal is to do more than "just not suck"

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I think most have softened on the 1st round or bust thing but the fact that 7 of the final 8 playoff teams had QBs drafted or signed as a rookie FA by their original team tells you that is the way to go if your goal is to do more than "just not suck"

There are some other stories. Brees was not drafted by the Saints. Manning was not drafted by the Broncos. Wilson was a 2nd rounder, Brady was a gem hidden at the bottom of the draft. The Colts' story isn't the usual one.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Cochise

There are some other stories. Brees was not drafted by the Saints. Manning was not drafted by the Broncos. Wilson was a 2nd rounder, Brady was a gem hidden at the bottom of the draft. The Colts' story isn't the usual one.

Like I said some have softened on thd 1st round thing and yes the little lands on green on occasion but odds say get and develop your own guy is the best way to go to advance in the playoffs. Id prefer to not go with your Sun Shines On A Dogs Ass philosophy.