Cardinals ***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread II*** - Page 28

**BigRedChief** · 10:46 PM

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Clinched Central Division title and Home Field advantage in the playoffs. First team in MLB to win 100 games since 2011.

Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
Only 1 losing season since 2000.
Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

George Liquor · 07-24-2015, 06:47 PM

Do we still hate Grichuk or not?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-24-2015, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23

Do we still hate Grichuk or not?

It's becoming much harder, and he still has very real warts, but his power is a Godsend.

George Liquor · 07-24-2015, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's becoming much harder, and he still has very real warts, but his power is a Godsend.

He seems to be what Mark Reynolds should be

**BigRedChief** · 07-24-2015, 06:57 PM

DJ and Hamas,

Do you guys still feel Grichuk is still not an everyday player? Not being a smartass. Just wondering if something has changed in his swing or he just getting lucky now.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-24-2015, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

DJ and Hamas,

Do you guys still feel Grichuk is still not an everyday player? Not being a smartass. Just wondering if something has changed in his swing or he just getting lucky now.

His average is not sustainable because his BABIP is about .370 right now, but when he makes contact the ball is ****ing screaming, so he'll always be a guy who has a BABIP on the higher end of average (probably .320 or so).

He is significantly improved against sliders and curves this year, and he murders fastballs and changeups.

The most promising part of his development this year is that he is killing RHP. He was terrible against righties last year. This year, he's 30% better against them than lefties.

He's still going to go through weeks where he looks like the worst hitter on the team, but he is also getting to the point where he could almost carry an offense when he gets hot.

DJ's left nut · 07-24-2015, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

DJ and Hamas,

Do you guys still feel Grichuk is still not an everyday player? Not being a smartass. Just wondering if something has changed in his swing or he just getting lucky now.

In fairness, I said his best case scenario was Adam Jones but I didn't think he'd get there (because an near nobody with that hitting profile does) and darn sure didn't think he'd get there this year.

But holy hell is he powerful. The bomb he hit yesterday was on accident. He has absolute thunder in that bat. So long as he keeps killing everything he hits, he's that rare outlier that can succeed without being selective, much like Jones.

Just remember that Jones DID get destroyed by quality pitching in the postseason and that has always been my worry with him. Grichuk may still be susceptible to plus pitching but right now it just doesn't matter.

I've not seen a change in anything he does, he's just making it work for him. He's still overrated defensively but he can play a credible CF and that can make him a 4+ WAR player.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-24-2015, 07:25 PM

Have a ****ing week, Grichuk. Jesus.

**BigRedChief** · 07-24-2015, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

In fairness, I said his best case scenario was Adam Jones but I didn't think he'd get there (because an near nobody with that hitting profile does) and darn sure didn't think he'd get there this year.

But holy hell is he powerful. The bomb he hit yesterday was on accident. He has absolute thunder in that bat. So long as he keeps killing everything he hits, he's that rare outlier that can succeed without being selective, much like Jones.

Just remember that Jones DID get destroyed by quality pitching in the postseason and that has always been my worry with him. Grichuk may still be susceptible to plus pitching but right now it just doesn't matter.

I've not seen a change in anything he does, he's just making it work for him. He's still overrated defensively but he can play a credible CF and that can make him a 4+ WAR player.

Thanks. A yearly 4+ WAR will get you a $75-$100 Million contract come free agency time, right? 4+ WAR is borderline All-Star, correct?

DJ's left nut · 07-24-2015, 07:33 PM

Let's see if Cooney hits the wall around 70 pitches again. Honestly, I think he's earned more time in STL even when Garcia comes back. We need to take some pressure off Wacha and Martinez, let's get to skipping some starts and keep Tim around. If he does nothing more than save us 20-30 innings each on Wacha and Martinez he'll be worth his weight in gold.

The kid's a player and if he can maintain his command through 90+ pitches, he's a legit starter at this level.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-24-2015, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Thanks. 4+ WAR will get you a $75-$100 Million contract come free agency time. 4+ WAR is borderline All-Star, correct?

Yup. Here are your CFers sorted by WAR from last year. It's not completely accurate by position, but pretty close:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ter=&players=0

Jewish Rabbi · 07-24-2015, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Let's see if Cooney hits the wall around 70 pitches again. Honestly, I think he's earned more time in STL even when Garcia comes back. We need to take some pressure off Wacha and Martinez, let's get to skipping some starts and keep Tim around. If he does nothing more than save us 20-30 innings each on Wacha and Martinez he'll be worth his weight in gold.

The kid's a player and if he can maintain his command through 90+ pitches, he's a legit starter at this level.

He's been impressive in his starts thus far, that's for sure.

**BigRedChief** · 07-24-2015, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Yup. Here are your CFers sorted by WAR from last year. It's not completely accurate by position, but pretty close:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ter=&players=0

Elsbury got $150+Million didn't he?

I heard that the deal was Bourjas for Freese but Mo wanted a little more and then asked for Grichuk. We basically got Grichuk for Salas?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-24-2015, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Elsbury got $150+Million didn't he?

I heard that the deal was Bourjas for Freese but Mo wanted a little more and then asked for Grichuk. We basically got Grichuk for Salas?

It's a great example of the benefits of asking. Even if the guy is just a lottery ticket, he could end up giving us tens of millions in surplus value.

And although Cooney is basically pitching against the Gwinett Braves tonight and they are swinging at some shite, he's been very good. Enough to make you comfortable with him starting or, dare I say, as a legitimate LH relief option come September/October.

One thing to remember is that if Choate can't get lefties out we don't really have a lefty option b/c of Siegrist's platoon splits.

**BigRedChief** · 07-24-2015, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Let's see if Cooney hits the wall around 70 pitches again. Honestly, I think he's earned more time in STL even when Garcia comes back. We need to take some pressure off Wacha and Martinez, let's get to skipping some starts and keep Tim around. If he does nothing more than save us 20-30 innings each on Wacha and Martinez he'll be worth his weight in gold.

The kid's a player and if he can maintain his command through 90+ pitches, he's a legit starter at this level.

I see no path to winning in the playoffs without a sharp Wacha/Martinez. They need to save some innings. Garcia coming back, Cooney doing well, this is the time to bank those playoff innings.

DJ's left nut · 07-24-2015, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Thanks. A yearly 4+ WAR will get you a $75-$100 Million contract come free agency time, right? 4+ WAR is borderline All-Star, correct?

Yup. Start getting north of 4 and you're in legit AS consideration.

I still can't believe he's doing it. Think of the most 'hacker' hitter you can think of. My first thought is Ron Gant. Gant struck out 2/3 as often and walked twice as frequently.

Striking out six times more often than you walk is just unheard of for a successful hitter. It's just not a hitting profile I've ever seen work. Even Jones, an absolutely notorious hacker, is a 18-20% K guy to Grichuk's 30%. That's honest to god 200 K hitter stuff. Name a 200 strikeout player who only walks 30 times/season and is at all successful.

Baseball has it's occasional outlier but man are they rare. I still don't trust him. I still think he'll get exposed as a wild hacker. If he succeeds doing this he'll be the first person I can think of to EVER do it.

But right now you have to ride him 'till he bucks ya.

07-14-2015, 07:36 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-641038 VARSITY	*Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread II* 2011 World Series Championship 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance. 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance 2015 Clinched Central Division title and Home Field advantage in the playoffs. First team in MLB to win 100 games since 2011. Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons. Only 1 losing season since 2000. Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005. Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014 Three million attendance? Take it to the bank. 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team. Last edited by BigRedChief; 09-30-2015 at 10:46 PM..
Posts: 81,281

07-24-2015, 06:47 PM	#406
George Liquor Forklift Certified Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: House of the Rising Sun Casino cash: $-810150	Do we still hate Grichuk or not?
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07-24-2015, 06:57 PM	#409
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-641038 VARSITY	DJ and Hamas, Do you guys still feel Grichuk is still not an everyday player? Not being a smartass. Just wondering if something has changed in his swing or he just getting lucky now. __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,281

07-24-2015, 07:25 PM	#412
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7229572	Have a ****ing week, Grichuk. Jesus.
Posts: 75,077

07-24-2015, 07:33 PM	#414
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-710901	Let's see if Cooney hits the wall around 70 pitches again. Honestly, I think he's earned more time in STL even when Garcia comes back. We need to take some pressure off Wacha and Martinez, let's get to skipping some starts and keep Tim around. If he does nothing more than save us 20-30 innings each on Wacha and Martinez he'll be worth his weight in gold. The kid's a player and if he can maintain his command through 90+ pitches, he's a legit starter at this level. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
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