***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread II***

[BigRedChief]

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Clinched Central Division title and Home Field advantage in the playoffs. First team in MLB to win 100 games since 2011.

• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• Only 1 losing season since 2000.
• Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
• Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
• Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
• 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

[DJ's left nut]

Royals give up Manaea for Zobrist. Nice haul for Beane, but Manaea's history of health concerns would make me a little skittish.

That said, Manaea and Kaminsky are probably about even in terms of their value as prospects; different teams would likely view them differently in the margins, but ultimately they're probably about on par. I prefer Kaminsky's health history to Manaea's more projectable frame (afterall, that frame keeps breaking down), but organizations obviously value things differently.

Would I give Kaminsky for Zobrist? Hell no.

But if Kaminsky has an injury next year, he's probably still considered a premium prospect. With Manaea already having a couple of significant injuries, in prospect terms he's one more long-term injury away from being a non-entity so Moore probably saw an opportunity to get something out of him and didn't want to take a chance in another breakdown.

It makes sense. It's a good deal for both sides but I wouldn't be willing to make it's analogue if I'm Mozeliak.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Royals give up Manaea for Zobrist. Nice haul for Beane, but Manaea's history of health concerns would make me a little skittish.

That said, Manaea and Kaminsky are probably about even in terms of their value as prospects; different teams would likely view them differently in the margins, but ultimately they're probably about on par. I prefer Kaminsky's health history to Manaea's more projectable frame (afterall, that frame keeps breaking down), but organizations obviously value things differently.

Would I give Kaminsky for Zobrist? Hell no.

But if Kaminsky has an injury next year, he's probably still considered a premium prospect. With Manaea already having a couple of significant injuries, in prospect terms he's one more long-term injury away from being a non-entity so Moore probably saw an opportunity to get something out of him and didn't want to take a chance in another breakdown.

It makes sense. It's a good deal for both sides but I wouldn't be willing to make it's analogue if I'm Mozeliak.

Manaea was and always has been overrated by Royals fans for the same reason why a lot of us, myself included, used to overrate Anthony Reyes--he's the best of a blah crop of starting pitchers, so his obvious flaws are overlooked.

He's 23 years old and has multiple problems with his lower body already. I'm not betting on that guy maintaining his velocity for very long.

[O.city]

So I've been thinking about this today. This current cards offense is frustrating no doubt.

But it shouldn't be. They need a new forst baseman. Again, no doubt.

But what other position needs upgrading that you'd feel comfortable making a move for and moving out the current player? Carpenter at third is severely underperforming, Holliday has been put etc.

Get guys doing what they should be doing is it a big problem?

[O.city]

Also apparently Arenado is pissed about the tulo trade and had some pretty bad words about the Rockies org, per Rosenthal. Rosenthal speculates he wouldn't or won't sign an extension after the 2017 season as he's a bras client.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by O.city

Also apparently Arenado is pissed about the tulo trade and had some pretty bad words about the Rockies org, per Rosenthal. Rosenthal speculates he wouldn't or won't sign an extension after the 2017 season as he's a bras client.

All that means is that he's going to end up playing for the Dodgers, Red Sox, Angels, or Yankees, like he was always going to.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by O.city

So I've been thinking about this today. This current cards offense is frustrating no doubt.

But it shouldn't be. They need a new forst baseman. Again, no doubt.

But what other position needs upgrading that you'd feel comfortable making a move for and moving out the current player? Carpenter at third is severely underperforming, Holliday has been put etc.

Get guys doing what they should be doing is it a big problem?

Decide if Piscotty can be an above avg. 1B the rest of the year. If they decide he isn't, or won't start him 5 times a week, send him down and acquire a rental 1B to platoon with Reynolds.

A bench bat or utility guy would be nice, but not needed.

CF, IMO, is fine. Grichuck should be, and is, starting every day. And he should continue to when Jay comes back.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by O.city

So I've been thinking about this today. This current cards offense is frustrating no doubt.

But it shouldn't be. They need a new forst baseman. Again, no doubt.

But what other position needs upgrading that you'd feel comfortable making a move for and moving out the current player? Carpenter at third is severely underperforming, Holliday has been put etc.

Get guys doing what they should be doing is it a big problem?

1st baseman, super utility guy and rest/health for the main starters. Maybe another bullpen arm. That's what the Cardinals need from my outside opinion.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by O.city

So I've been thinking about this today. This current cards offense is frustrating no doubt.

But it shouldn't be. They need a new forst baseman. Again, no doubt.

But what other position needs upgrading that you'd feel comfortable making a move for and moving out the current player? Carpenter at third is severely underperforming, Holliday has been put etc.

Get guys doing what they should be doing is it a big problem?

You don't want me to answer this

['Hamas' Jenkins]

We could also liposuction about 100 pounds off of Adams and use it as a backup energy source if we ever run low on jet fuel during a cross country charter. Or we could just pitch Adams out of the plane the way Starscream did to Megatron in the Transformers Animated Movie.

[New World Order]

Cards have one of the shittiest hitting teams in the MLB.

Amazing they have that good of a record.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by New World Order

Cards have one of the shittiest hitting teams in the MLB.

Amazing they have that good of a record.

This is overstating things...fairly significantly, in fact.

The Cardinals are pretty much an average offense. They're a little below average overall, but not having a DH will do that to you when compared to AL squads. They're dead middle in the NL.

They are actually quite good at getting on base but are pretty lousy at getting extra base hits.

They do not have one of the shittiest hitting teams in MLB, but they definitely do not have a plus offensive team either. They aren't the Mets, Phillies, Rays, Mariners, Braves, etc...; those are the shittiest hitting teams in baseball. Hell, they're doing a better job of scoring runs than the mighty Cubs offense.

But when your starters give up 2 runs or fewer about 60% of the time, you're going to win a shit load of ballgames.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

You don't want me to answer this

If you say Heyward, **** off.

[Rams Fan]

So, apparently, Cardinals' pitchers have thrown the 2nd most innings in MLB this year and 3 relievers are in the top 4 in appearances, with another reliever being in the top 20.

Yeah, another reliever wouldn't hurt.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

So, apparently, Cardinals' pitchers have thrown the 2nd most innings in MLB this year and 3 relievers are in the top 4 in appearances, with another reliever being in the top 20.

Yeah, another reliever wouldn't hurt.

To replace who?

Walden's going to be back shortly and Cishek is here now.

With a 7 man pen (god help me if you ask for 8) you have:

Rosenthal
Walden
Maness
Cishek
Villanueva (just stop - he's not going anywhere. Matheny will not have a BP without a long man)
Siegrist
Choate (again, just stop. We already know that Choate will be on this roster until the rapture comes; if he were open to replacement, Lyons would have already taken his job)


Where are you going to put another reliever? And is he really going to be better than Tuivaila or Socolovich have been? If you need to have more innings absorbed, we have more arms to do it.

There's just no need for another bullpen arm at this point. As for starters, you have Cooney and Marco coming back.

This franchise has plenty of arms. Cardinals fans are to pitchers what Chiefs fans are to offensive lineman at this point. No, the answer isn't always "My god! we need more arms!!!" We have scarce resources and much more pressing needs than an 8th potential RH reliever.

The 3 relievers in the top 4 in appearances thing isn't a personnel issue, it's a Matheny issue. I've been saying this for 2 years - Matheny will ride his top 3 guys into the ground every single season. Give him a 10 man !@#$ing relief staff and it won't matter because he'll still find three he likes and he'll flog them until they have to be shot on the track.

[O.city]

Tui and socolovich have been pretty ****ing good