Football Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide - Page 37

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 01:45 PM

Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress.

Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th.

Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html

NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game.

New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side.

Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached.
And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling.

"Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback.

So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here.

For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat.

There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion.

Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement.

"This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked.

The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place.

First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children.

He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated.

So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players.

So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face.
It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities.

In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other.

When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart.

Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged.

Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance.

Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable.

No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum.

Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers.

The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms.

As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions.

It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious.

That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line.

It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case.

But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter.

The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady.

The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance.

It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word.

The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.

Reerun_KC · 09-04-2015, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

That's not "Brady got off on a technicality", that's "the NFL's system is ****ed".

The NFL CAN punish players for breaking rules. It just needs a better PROCESS. One that NOTIFIES players what they can and cannot do, and what the potential punishments are for it.

Exactly all of this... You are right and that's the issue here... People are so blinded by their hate of successful players/franchises that they cant see the root cause of this issue...

Same with Alex Smith and Andy Reid, they are so blinded by their hate of Smith they will intentionally ignore the root of the problem.

Honestly this is the best outcome for any NFL fan, this will force the NFL to adopt a process that is fair, consistent and balanced when handing down punishments to players and franchises. But having one person make up the punishments as we go with zero regards to the CBA or any other set of rules regarding punishments isn't going to make the NFL a better league.

TEX · 09-04-2015, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I think we all agree with that, but I don't think any of them is willing to stand up and say the Pats didn't do this. At best they'd say, "In 2015, with our legal system, you're not allowed to gather the evidence you'd need. Add to it that crooks have rights too, the Pats can't be persecuted or prosecuted unless they're stupid enough to admit to what any form of common sense seems to indicate."

Nailed it.

Amnorix · 09-04-2015, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

Unless of course Brady goes DOWN in one of the games that he would have been serving his suspension.

If that were to happen, I'd know for sure that there's a God and my liife would completely change. After I laughed my ass off for about a week...

I will never understand wishing injury on a sports player, unless maybe he is dirty and hurt someone. Did Brady **** your wife? I mean, seriously.

Reerun_KC · 09-04-2015, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I will never understand wishing injury on a sports player, unless maybe he is dirty and hurt someone. Did Brady **** your wife? I mean, seriously.

They are Thickening...

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Berman's decision so crucified the NFL it's fair to say that I don't think he has one damn bit of confidence in any of its findings. But, of course, that is beyond the scope of his permissible review, and beyond the scope of his rulings.

But let's put that aside -- your post really does make me shake my head. You're acting like Brady got off on some hypertechnicality. The problems with the NFL's system is fundamentally this -- Goodell does whatever the hell he wants. That's not at "system". It's not fundamentally fair that he makes up rules that applies to players (which never did before), and then imposes punishments on them that are a million times more harsh than anything ever done before.

That's not "Brady got off on a technicality", that's "the NFL's system is ****ed".

The NFL CAN punish players for breaking rules. It just needs a better PROCESS. One that NOTIFIES players what they can and cannot do, and what the potential punishments are for it.

Yes, it's very much a technicality... I understand you can't agree to that, it's "the Patriot way", and it's worked very well for them during the BB and TB era, and prolly will afterwards too.

Enjoy your season, I'm sure the Pats will ensure they do well.

Pasta Little Brioni · 09-04-2015, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Not if the refs OWN MEMORY as to which gauge he uses is correct. If you rely on THAT gauge, then all the balls are WITHIN the ideal gas law predicted deflation. ALL the Patriots balls.

The NFL pointed to this also, as if it was proof of guilt, which is AMAZING to me. Would you not also have a spike in communication if they were innocent? Would you not get together and be like "what the **** is going on? Did you guys spike the balls? What happened?!?"

Aren't they going to meet and talk EITHER WAY?

Or would you be like "hey, I didn't do anything, so let's not talk about this at all."

Finally, phone -- optics. They were never getting it. NEVER GETTING IT. If it makes you feel better to think it's in a drawer somewhere, instead of destroyed, that's great, but what possible difference does it make? NEVER getting it.

You are a moron of epic proportions

....Wow you actually believe that drivel. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard and may god have mercy on your soul.

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

Unless of course Brady goes DOWN in one of the games that he would have been serving his suspension.

If that were to happen, I'd know for sure that there's a God and my liife would completely change. After I laughed my ass off for about a week...

There's no way anybody wants that to happen. I know for one I don't. Hell, last time he want down the fact that a hold was what led to the injury was completely discounted, only the hit (that was low as a result from having been held vs. being blocked) was focused on. So it's not worth having the discussion, and I'd prefer it not happen.

What I would like is for the NFL to choose to focus on the Pat's O-line and chunk a flag for every hold they commit in the 2016 season. It's both right, and will make the NFL right.

Pasta Little Brioni · 09-04-2015, 09:14 AM

It would be funny if that cheating smug liar got Pollarded on opening night heh

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I will never understand wishing injury on a sports player, unless maybe he is dirty and hurt someone. Did Brady **** your wife? I mean, seriously.

While it's clear I'm not wishing for any injury, could you please define the context of "****"?

With what Brady and the Pats have gotten away with (or minimally fined for) over the last 7-10 years, I might argue that if "****" means "screwed-over", every non-Pats fan, wives included, has be "****ed" by both Brady and the Pats.

Oh, and I thought you had given up on trying to defend your team's means and tactics. No?

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

You are a moron of epic proportions

....Wow you actually believe that drivel. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard and may god have mercy on your soul.

It would be nice to temp-ban all Pats fans for the 2016 season.

Donk fans are welcome, but Pats fans have earned a trip to Whoresville-only for a year!

chiefzilla1501 · 09-04-2015, 09:21 AM

The Patriots cheated
The nfl over reached
Brady lied

I don't know how any logical person could look at the facts of the case and conclude otherwise. It really is that simple.

Red Dawg · 09-04-2015, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

It would be funny if that cheating smug liar got Pollarded on opening night heh

I just jizzed in my pants. That would be some legendary street justice.

Pasta Little Brioni · 09-04-2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The Patriots cheated
The nfl over reached
Brady lied

I don't know how any logical person could look at the facts of the case and conclude otherwise. It really is that simple.

I guess I can concede and agree with this. Now for Asterisk to admit their guilt...

Pasta Little Brioni · 09-04-2015, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

It would be nice to temp-ban all Pats fans for the 2016 season.

Donk fans are welcome, but Pats fans have earned a trip to Whoresville-only for a year!

Now they have lied themselves into believing NONE of the Pats balls were deflated

You have got to be shitting me

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

Now they have lied themselves into believing NONE of the Pats balls were deflated

You have got to be shitting me

You got it... It's the Patriot way...

08-31-2015, 01:45 PM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress. Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th. Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game. New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side. Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached. And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling. "Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback. So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here. For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat. There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion. Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement. "This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked. The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place. First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children. He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated. So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players. So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face. It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities. In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other. When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart. Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged. Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance. Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable. No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum. Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers. The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms. As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions. It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious. That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line. It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case. But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter. The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady. The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance. It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word. The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.
Posts: 43,125

09-04-2015, 09:14 AM	#548
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $278880	It would be funny if that cheating smug liar got Pollarded on opening night heh __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
Posts: 72,960

09-04-2015, 09:21 AM	#551
chiefzilla1501 In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $-1655503	The Patriots cheated The nfl over reached Brady lied I don't know how any logical person could look at the facts of the case and conclude otherwise. It really is that simple.
Posts: 51,606