Pagano Tosses Luck under the bus

[oaklandhater]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ck-after-loss/

Frustrated Pagano tough on Luck after loss

Posted by Zac Jackson on September 22, 2015, 1:21 AM EDT
Chuck Pagano, Andrew Luck
AP
The Colts were a mess from the beginning Monday night and were ultimately doomed by five turnovers — three Andrew Luck interceptions — in a 20-7 loss to the Jets.

After the game, Colts coach Chuck Pagano didn’t try to hide his frustration with his quarterback and his team as a whole.

“He’s got to take care of the football,” Pagano said in his postgame press conference. “It’s not that hard. It’s not trigonometry.”

The simple math says that the Colts have scored three touchdowns and committed eight turnovers through two games, both losses.

“Can’t turn the damn ball over,” Pagano said.

Gregg Doyel of the Indianapolis Star, who was at the game and at the postgame press conference, wrote that Pagano was “throwing Luck under the bus.”

While the Jets clearly frustrated Luck with a variety of blitzes and sometimes just by simply overpowering them in one-on-one battles in the trenches, Pagano hinted that Luck has to overcome his line’s shortcomings.

“[That has] been the case for three years now, hasn’t it?” Pagano asked. “He should be more than comfortable dealing with it.”

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by dls6501

People saying Luck throws too many interceptions crack me up. There is absolutely no context to counting the number of interceptions.

A better way to look at it is interception percentage. Lets look at some historical QBs (and a couple current ones) to put this inperspective....

Joe Montana 2.6
Steve Young 2.6
Peyton Manning 2.6
Drew Brees 2.6
Tony Romo 2.6
Ben Rothlisberger 2.6
Troy Aikman 3.0
Dan Marino 3.0
John Elway 3.1
Kurt Warner 3.1
Brett Favre 3.3
Warren Moon 3.4
Jim Kelly 3.7
Roger Staubach 3.7
Dan Fouts 4.3

Andrew Luck 2.5

Advanced stats = context. Stat totals = no context whatsoever.

Andrew Luck has more INT’s than Jay Cutler since last year!!!!! Yes. 21-20. Andrew Luck has also throw 702 passes in that time. Cutler, 606.

96 passes is roughly 3 full games worth of passes, with just 1 more INT.

Cutler’s ratio? 3.4

50 career games. 48 INT’s. 1 per game. Throwing the ball 1,900 times in that span. With absolutely zero running game. No Lynch, or Lacy, or Le’Veon Bell, or Emmitt Smith, or Roger Craig, or Terrell Davis etc to hand off to, or occupy defenses. Yet, all those QB’s throw INT’s more often than Luck does on a per pass basis.

But hey, let’s not use context with our facts, let’s use the same stats that were invented in 1937 and apply them in 2015.

Yeah, comparing Luck to guys that played 30+ years ago is a great idea. Actually, no, it's completely irrelevant.

Luck's INT numbers aren't terrible for a guy playing his first three years. TD/INT ratio is worse than Romo, Ryan, Big Ben and Rivers (for mid-tier guys, he's obviously not in the same league as the elites), but better than Cam Newton, Dalton, Flacco and Stafford.

As for INT percentage, he's currently tied iwth Tannehill, Rivers, Romo and Big Ben. A bit behind Flacco, Ryan, Alex Smith, and Bradford.

So, really, "not bad", but hardly at any kind of elite level. He's nowhere near operating at an elite level. At least not yet.

What's concerning, if you're a fan of the Colts, is that he seems to have gone the wrong way this year. Of course, his line and skill position players blow, so hard to blame him entirely for that.

But three years in is three years in. If he was going to be AWESOME giggity giggity, he should be starting to show it by now. He ain't. Maybe he's a late bloomer (see Brees, Drew), but only time will tell.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I don't buy that bullshit. The Colts were 3-1 in December last year and there QB played absolute garbage football.

Luck doesn't have to do "everything." Luck has a GM who constantly drafts him weapons and brings in guys like Andre Johnson and Frank Gore who were supposed to be awesome sleeper picks since they finally had an awesome QB to put them in places to excel.

I know, I know, I know ... his line sucks. Pretty convenient excuse. I think it's just another way of saying, "meh. Luck hasn't lived up to his hype."

and that's not an insult.

I would probably put Luck as the 7th or 8th best QB in the NFL right now. That's awesome. But he hasn't lived up to his unreal hype and I see nothing out of him that suggests to me he's some sure fire HOF'er. He's a fast Eli Manning. I love Eli. Eli is great. But has Eli ever been a top 5 QB in any given year? No. And neither has Luck. And Luck has regressed every single year IMO.

I think it's as safe to say that Luck will always be this guy, nothing more ... and that's ok. It's just not John Elway.

Could well be. Exactly how Patriots fans viewed Drew Bledsoe. We desperately wnated him to be Elway or Marino. He wasn't, and never would be.

That doesn't make him terrible. It just means he's not teh AWESOME.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Tom Brady has perfected the dink and dunk to a level I have never before seen ... he is literally playing the QB position as close to perfect as it can be played. Throwing the ball down the field is nice and all but you don't have to play that way to win. Brady showed it in the Super Bowl.

Originally Posted by RunKC

And BB used a lot of Andy's playbook in that game. It was essentially Andy's wet dream of a QB performance.

A few random comments re: this.

First, the Patriots have been in fundamentally the same offense (in terms of concepts) for 15 years. Changes in offensive coordinators haven't mattered much when it comes to the offensive philosophy. Very few QBs (probably NO QBs, actually) get to be with the same HC and same offense for 15 freaking years.

Second, BB has purposefully built the offense THIS way. Long-developing plays are great, and Brady to Moss was very pretty, but if your OL can't hold their blocks long enough, then it wont' matter. See 2007 Super Bowl. The current offense has no deep threats, except Gronk, sorta, but rather has a bunch of smurfs who all are great at route running and YAC. If we had the 2007 offense last year, I think the SEahawks beat us just like the Giants did.

Third, Gronk. Not only the best receiving TE in the league, also the best blocking TE in the league. Brutal to deal with. He's the straw that stirs the drink.

Fourth, all the key skill players have been in teh system with Brady for AT LEAST three years now. Gronk, Edelman and Amendola. LaFell isn't even out there, but Dobson (third year) is filling in nicely. With Dion Lewis being a great imitation of Kevin Faulk already, they are clicking on all cylinders.

It's sort of a perfect storm of offensive awesomeness. But that will matter less and less as the weather goes south, people get hurt, and especially if the defense can't hold its end of the bargain.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by dls6501

People saying Luck throws too many interceptions crack me up. There is absolutely no context to counting the number of interceptions.

A better way to look at it is interception percentage. Lets look at some historical QBs (and a couple current ones) to put this inperspective....

The context is the course of a season. If you lead the league in INT's you're not having a great season...

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Could well be. Exactly how Patriots fans viewed Drew Bledsoe. We desperately wnated him to be Elway or Marino. He wasn't, and never would be.

That doesn't make him terrible. It just means he's not teh AWESOME.

And he's got as high a ceiling as any QB to ever be drafted but that doesn't mean he ever reaches it.

Kerry Collins took a 2nd year expansion team to the NFCC game, the Titans to a 13-3 record, and the Giants to a SB. Unlimited potential but it was never reached because his first 5 years were spent being a complete idiot.

Mike Vick, Jeff George, etc...

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Rausch

And he's got as high a ceiling as any QB to ever be drafted but that doesn't mean he ever reaches it.

Yes. His arm was AMAZING. He could throw any pass, anywhere, any time.

And he had a very good coach (Parcells), and after a couple of years he had elite players at the skill positions -- Curtis Martin at RB and Ben Coates at TE. They got the Pats to a SB so I have no complaints.

Bledsoe coudl absolutely LIGHT IT UP when he was "on", but too often he made too many mistakes. Held the ball too long, not much pocket awareness, staring down receivers, FAR more interested in the big strike than taking the checkdown that was RIGHT THERE, etc. etc. etc.

Kerry Collins took a 2nd year expansion team to the NFCC game, the Titans to a 13-3 record, and the Giants to a SB. Unlimited potential but it was never reached because his first 5 years were spent being a complete idiot.

Mike Vick, Jeff George, etc...

And the ultrabusts. Ryan Leaf (2nd in draft), Rick Mirer (2nd in draft, not an ultra bust, but not good), etc ad infinitum.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Could well be. Exactly how Patriots fans viewed Drew Bledsoe. We desperately wnated him to be Elway or Marino. He wasn't, and never would be.

That doesn't make him terrible. It just means he's not teh AWESOME.

He should get credit for turning that franchise around though.

The Pats were awful in the early 90s. And he was good pretty much immediately.

He never did seem to reach his ceiling though.

[Mennonite]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

He never did seem to reach his ceiling though.

Maybe he should have tried cheating. That seems to work.

[Deberg_1990]

Bledsoe has 70 pass attempts in a game once. Holy sh*t

[tk13]

The only time Brady was a big deep ball guy was when he had Randy Moss. He could throw up jump balls and it'd work. When he started, he won three Super Bowls with the short passing attack. That's what Weis wanted to do, spread the field and stretch the defense out. The game has changed and everyone is passing more and spreading the field.

[RobBlake]

drew bledsoe operates a winery now.. if i recall correctly

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

And the ultrabusts. Ryan Leaf (2nd in draft), Rick Mirer (2nd in draft, not an ultra bust, but not good), etc ad infinitum.

I think it's safe to assume Luck won't be anywhere near a bust but I think people need to lower their expectations.

****ing Dan Marino never won a SB because of his craptastic running game, O line, and defense. At times he had 1 of the three but most times he didn't.

A top 10 offensive line makes an average HB look great, clearly helps the QB, and even a respectable D with the two above is a playoff team.

Indi was much better about building a "team" around Manning than they have been with Luck...

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by RobBlake

drew bledsoe operates a winery now.. if i recall correctly

Another reason I like the guy...

[ThaVirus]

No game thread tonight?

That Hail Mary was ****ing awesome. Horrible defense by the Colts.

[oaklandhater]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

No game thread tonight?

That Hail Mary was ****ing awesome. Horrible defense by the Colts.

I guess we are using this

Yup put the texans right back in the game