Cardinals ***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread III.*** - Page 42

**BigRedChief** · 05:00 PM

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.

Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
Only 1 losing season since 2000.
Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

DJ's left nut · 11-13-2015, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

What do you think Mo would give up for Freeman?

He'd stop short of Reyes.

Beyond that, I think there are a lot of reasonable packages that could be assembled. I don't think he can part with Wong as he doesn't have a replacement 3b if Carpenter moves to SS (and moving Peralta would make an even larger hole).

I don't think he'd part with Grichuk as our best RH power source and long-term CFer, nor do I think Piscotty would be in the deal as he's a RH hitter with pretty much the exact same toolbox as Freeman, so why pay $20 million/season for Freeman and move Piscotty to get him?

So I think we're back to Adams and 2 young pitchers that aren't named Reyes. Adams, Weaver and Gonzales seems reasonable to me given the contractual liability the Cards take off Atlanta's hands.

**BigRedChief** · 11-13-2015, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He'd stop short of Reyes.

Beyond that, I think there are a lot of reasonable packages that could be assembled. I don't think he can part with Wong as he doesn't have a replacement 3b if Carpenter moves to SS (and moving Peralta would make an even larger hole).

I don't think he'd part with Grichuk as our best RH power source and long-term CFer, nor do I think Piscotty would be in the deal as he's a RH hitter with pretty much the exact same toolbox as Freeman, so why pay $20 million/season for Freeman and move Piscotty to get him?

So I think we're back to Adams and 2 young pitchers that aren't named Reyes. Adams, Weaver and Gonzales seems reasonable to me given the contractual liability the Cards take off Atlanta's hands.

Weaver is tearing it up in the AFL but you have to give up something to get something.

Brent Williams · 11-13-2015, 04:50 PM

From what I have read is that they are asking for C-mart. Not sure if they want more or not but they say that they have asked for him. Not sure how I feel about that.

DJ's left nut · 11-13-2015, 04:54 PM

They wanted C-Mart last year; I'd guess this is just people remembering that.

Of note, however, is that the Braves were watching Jenkins in the AFL last year and were very impressed by his performance. That was part of what led to them asking him as part of the Heyward deal.

Weaver has had an outstanding AFL thus far. If the Braves put a fair amount of weight on AFL performances, I could see him being of interest to them.

Again, just look at who they got for Simmons. They didn't get anything resembling C-Mart and there's no reason they should be expected to substantially beat that return on Freeman. Of course they'll ask for the moon (just as they asked the Mets for Harvey or DeGrom for Simmons), but what they request and what they'll get are two very, very different things.

DJ's left nut · 11-13-2015, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Weaver is tearing it up in the AFL but you have to give up something to get something.

Do you disagree with my calculus above?

What do you think Freeman's value on the open market is? Even if you think he'd snag something like $25 million in AAV, you're still looking at surplus value only in the $40 million range at that point, and I think that's high for a 1b who doesn't present a real HR threat.

Just exactly how much should that cost?

Brent Williams · 11-13-2015, 05:10 PM

Freeman also played at Tirner field which is a horrible hitter park if I'm not mistaken???? Bring him in where he can hit at wrigley and in Cinncy more then he might get you 20-25 home runs

DJ's left nut · 11-13-2015, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Williams

Freeman also played at Tirner field which is a horrible hitter park if I'm not mistaken???? Bring him in where he can hit at wrigley and in Cinncy more then he might get you 20-25 home runs

It's not as bad as its reputation - it's not a hitters park but it's probably a fair stadium.

Everyone used that as an excuse for Heyward's poor HR numbers as well but when you do the park overlay, the dimensions are extremely similar to Busch.

He's just not a guy with a lot of loft in his swing. He hits balls hard, but he also isn't a 'wait for a pitch and pull it' guy. He's a guy that will expand his strike zone a bit and just look for a pitch to stroke somewhere.

Really, he's a lot like Holliday was 3 years ago. He'll hit some HRs, but they're liners that just get over the wall. I don't expect he'll ever be a prolific HR hitter. He'll simply be a professional run producer.

**BigRedChief** · 11-13-2015, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Do you disagree with my calculus above?

What do you think Freeman's value on the open market is? Even if you think he'd snag something like $25 million in AAV, you're still looking at surplus value only in the $40 million range at that point, and I think that's high for a 1b who doesn't present a real HR threat.

Just exactly how much should that cost?

No, Gonzalez/Weaver/Adams would be fine with me. They love Weaver down here but that may be just the local love for a player.

We need a solution at 1B.

Grichuk/Wong/Piscotty/Freeman/Wacha/Martinez/Reyes would be a good young core to build the next generation around.

Pasta Little Brioni · 11-13-2015, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan

No, I agree with the consensus: get Heyward re-signed,

.

Oh heeeeell no. 100 million for that clown is getting highway robbed.

**BigRedChief** · 11-16-2015, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's not as bad as its reputation - it's not a hitters park but it's probably a fair stadium.

Everyone used that as an excuse for Heyward's poor HR numbers as well but when you do the park overlay, the dimensions are extremely similar to Busch.

He's just not a guy with a lot of loft in his swing. He hits balls hard, but he also isn't a 'wait for a pitch and pull it' guy. He's a guy that will expand his strike zone a bit and just look for a pitch to stroke somewhere.

Really, he's a lot like Holliday was 3 years ago. He'll hit some HRs, but they're liners that just get over the wall. I don't expect he'll ever be a prolific HR hitter. He'll simply be a professional run producer.

David Schoenfield of ESPN says that the Braves want Reyes and Gonzales for Freeman.

ChiefsCountry · 11-16-2015, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

David Schoenfield of ESPN says that the Braves want Reyes and Gonzales for Freeman.

Nice starting place, which means a trade will get worked out IMO. Now what players do they want instead of Reyes would be the next question.

**BigRedChief** · 11-16-2015, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Nice starting place, which means a trade will get worked out IMO. Now what players do they want instead of Reyes would be the next question.

Not me. Why would you trade 6 years of control of a possible Cy Young winner for Freeman? Reyeshas way more value than Freeman,

jd1020 · 11-16-2015, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Not me. Why would you trade 6 years of control of a possible Cy Young winner for Freeman? Reyeshas way more value than Freeman,

Reyes hasn't pitched a single pitch in the major leagues and Freeman is a 26 year old 2 time AS 1B with a .800+ career OPS. To say Reyes has more value is just ignorant.

DJ's left nut · 11-16-2015, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Reyes hasn't pitched a single pitch in the major leagues and Freeman is a 26 year old 2 time AS 1B with a .800+ career OPS. To say Reyes has more value is just ignorant.

Says the guy that called him Carlos Marmol 5 months ago.

I wouldn't give Reyes straight across for Freeman, not when Freeman also carries a $110 million contract and is a good, not great, player at the easiest position on the diamond to play.

jd1020 · 11-16-2015, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Says the guy that called him Carlos Marmol 5 months ago.

Carlos Marmol was another guy who threw hard, striking out literally the same amount of batters per 9 in the minors, but also couldnt tell you where his pitch was going to end up.

10-12-2015, 08:54 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-661038 VARSITY	*Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread III.* 2011 World Series Championship 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance. 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS. Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons. Only 1 losing season since 2000. Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005. Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014 Three million attendance? Take it to the bank. 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team. Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-14-2015 at 05:00 PM..
Posts: 81,288

11-13-2015, 04:50 PM	#618
Brent Williams Starter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Quincy,Illinois Casino cash: $9968839	From what I have read is that they are asking for C-mart. Not sure if they want more or not but they say that they have asked for him. Not sure how I feel about that.
Posts: 123

11-13-2015, 04:54 PM	#619
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-730901	They wanted C-Mart last year; I'd guess this is just people remembering that. Of note, however, is that the Braves were watching Jenkins in the AFL last year and were very impressed by his performance. That was part of what led to them asking him as part of the Heyward deal. Weaver has had an outstanding AFL thus far. If the Braves put a fair amount of weight on AFL performances, I could see him being of interest to them. Again, just look at who they got for Simmons. They didn't get anything resembling C-Mart and there's no reason they should be expected to substantially beat that return on Freeman. Of course they'll ask for the moon (just as they asked the Mets for Harvey or DeGrom for Simmons), but what they request and what they'll get are two very, very different things. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,803

11-13-2015, 05:10 PM	#621
Brent Williams Starter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Quincy,Illinois Casino cash: $9968839	Freeman also played at Tirner field which is a horrible hitter park if I'm not mistaken???? Bring him in where he can hit at wrigley and in Cinncy more then he might get you 20-25 home runs
Posts: 123