Chiefs NFL's Best OLB: Houston vs. Miller - Page 9

pugsnotdrugs19 · 02-13-2016, 11:13 AM

Got into a debate with a Donkey fan regarding this topic earlier this week, but I love it. I think it's one that can be argued both ways, but personally I take a healthy Houston every day over a healthy Miller. Place your vote and make your own case below.

Things to keep in mind:

Justin Houston career numbers:
- 64 starts
-56 sacks (2011: 5.5 in 10 starts, 2012: 10.0 in 16 starts, 2013: 11.0 in 11 starts, 2014: 22.0 in 16 starts, 2015: 7.5 in 10 games)
- 3 interceptions
- 25 passes defensed
- 8 forced fumbles/ 5 recoveries
- 1 touchdown (INT), 1 safety
- Hasn't been flagged for anything since the 2013 season

Von Miller career numbers:
- 72 starts
- 60 sacks (2011: 11.5 in 15 starts, 2012: 18.5 in 16 starts, 2013: 5.0 in 9 starts, 2014: 14.0 in 16 starts, 2015: 11.0 in 16 starts)
- 1 interception
- 10 passes defensed
- 17 forced fumbles/ 5 recoveries
- 1 touchdown (INT), 1 touchdown (fumble recovery), 0 safeties
- Consistently penalized, often for personal fouls

For me, considering the numbers..... I still take Houston. Statistically, I can argue he's been better in every phase of the game except for forcing fumbles. Miller does have the playoff success to attribute in his argument, but Houston of course didn't hardly play in this year's playoffs. Regardless, this a fun topic no matter the time of year. So, who do you take?

O.city · 02-14-2016, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

The ol' Bowe argument again ... blame Houston's performance on Alex Smith

Our offense was better than Denver's this year and Von Miller did just fine playing on a team without an explosive offense.

Its basic football 101. The past few years, the broncos offense has put opposing offenses in pass first situations, which leads to more rushing opportunities.

The Chiefs offense hasn't been explosive. I don't really think that's arguable, and Houston has still been productive but has had 2 injury seasons.

I said nothing about Alex smith.

It's similar to how mathis and freeney were so much more productive in indy when manning offense was going good.

Now, von is really really good on his own, obviously, but it's good complimentary football.

vailpass · 02-14-2016, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Again...Eric Fisher ****ing flat out owns Von Miller.

**BigMeatballDave** · 02-14-2016, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OctoberFart

Miller by a long shot. Look how he took over this playoffs.

By a long shot? Miller may be better, That's debatable but if you really believe it's by a long shot, then I have to wonder if you've ever watched football before.

Tombstone RJ · 02-14-2016, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

Got into a debate with a Donkey fan regarding this topic earlier this week, but I love it. I think it's one that can be argued both ways, but personally I take a healthy Houston every day over a healthy Miller. Place your vote and make your own case below.

Things to keep in mind:

Justin Houston career numbers:
- 64 starts
-56 sacks (2011: 5.5 in 10 starts, 2012: 10.0 in 16 starts, 2013: 11.0 in 11 starts, 2014: 22.0 in 16 starts, 2015: 7.5 in 10 games)
- 3 interceptions
- 25 passes defensed
- 8 forced fumbles/ 5 recoveries
- 1 touchdown (INT), 1 safety
- Hasn't been flagged for anything since the 2013 season

Von Miller career numbers:
- 72 starts
- 60 sacks (2011: 11.5 in 15 starts, 2012: 18.5 in 16 starts, 2013: 5.0 in 9 starts, 2014: 14.0 in 16 starts, 2015: 11.0 in 16 starts)
- 1 interception
- 10 passes defensed
- 17 forced fumbles/ 5 recoveries
- 1 touchdown (INT), 1 touchdown (fumble recovery), 0 safeties
- Consistently penalized, often for personal fouls

For me, considering the numbers..... I still take Houston. Statistically, I can argue he's been better in every phase of the game except for forcing fumbles. Miller does have the playoff success to attribute in his argument, but Houston of course didn't hardly play in this year's playoffs. Regardless, this a fun topic no matter the time of year. So, who do you take?

One has a SB ring and a SB MVP. The other does not. When was the last time a defensive player (one who doesn't play special teams) got voted as the SB MVP?

O.city · 02-14-2016, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

One has a SB ring and a SB MVP. The other does not. When was the last time a defensive player (one who doesn't play special teams) got voted as the SB MVP?

2 years ago?

vailpass · 02-14-2016, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

2 years ago?

And how many defensive players have won that award in the 50 year history?

Tombstone RJ · 02-14-2016, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

2 years ago?

Doh, forgot about him! I went back and looked at the history of SB MVPs and Von Miller is one of 3 defensive players that is not a CB/Special Teams player who has won the award in the last 30 years.

pugsnotdrugs19 · 02-14-2016, 01:43 PM

You can't use one game as your argument for why Miller is the consistently better player.

If that's the case, the Brady vs. Manning argument would be over based on Tom's MVP's in the Super Bowl, as if Peyton's regular season awards were meaningless.

Tombstone RJ · 02-14-2016, 01:52 PM

Miller is one of 7 players at either LBer or DT that has won the SB MVP since it's inception. The others are Chuck Howley (DT for Dallas), Harvey Martin (DE/DT Dallas), Randy White (DE, DT, OLB Dallas), Richard Dent (DT Chicago), Ray Lewis (LB Baltimore), Malcolm Smith (OLB Seattle) and Von Miller (OLB Denver).

Most were won in the 1970s where the rules were more favorable to defenses.

Tombstone RJ · 02-14-2016, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

You can't use one game as your argument for why Miller is the consistently better player.

If that's the case, the Brady vs. Manning argument would be over based on Tom's MVP's in the Super Bowl, as if Peyton's regular season awards were meaningless.

How about the playoffs then, what are Miller's numbers in the playoffs?

Northman · 02-14-2016, 02:03 PM

Both are really good but i still would take Von (of course im a little biased) but i feel Von is far more dynamic. Von reminds me a lot of the late Derrick Thomas.

Chiefshrink · 02-14-2016, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

But again, that's not true totally. Houston beats a lot of RTs with the speed rush too. Just like Von has probably used some other moves himself outside of the speed rush. They have to be versatile to be that good.

Miller is more athletic with a much quicker first step but not near as strong as Houston.

If Miller had Houston's character I would take Miller every time. This is the first year Miller has had a consistent motor every week which has been the knock on Miller since he has been in the league IMO.

Chiefshrink · 02-14-2016, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Last I heard, 22 sacks is pretty good.

Easy schedule helps as well.

vailpass · 02-14-2016, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

Miller is more athletic with a much quicker first step but not near as strong as Houston.

If Miller had Houston's character I would take Miller every time. This is the first year Miller has had a consistent motor every week which has been the knock on Miller since he has been in the league IMO.

Character? Miller's motor being questioned?

milkman · 02-14-2016, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vailpass

Character? Miller's motor being questioned?

You know that you are responding to a ****ing idiot, right?

View Poll Results: Houston or Miller?
Houston	74	54.01%
Miller	63	45.99%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

02-13-2016, 11:13 AM
pugsnotdrugs19 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2013 Casino cash: $6609447	NFL's Best OLB: Houston vs. Miller Got into a debate with a Donkey fan regarding this topic earlier this week, but I love it. I think it's one that can be argued both ways, but personally I take a healthy Houston every day over a healthy Miller. Place your vote and make your own case below. Things to keep in mind: Justin Houston career numbers: - 64 starts -56 sacks (2011: 5.5 in 10 starts, 2012: 10.0 in 16 starts, 2013: 11.0 in 11 starts, 2014: 22.0 in 16 starts, 2015: 7.5 in 10 games) - 3 interceptions - 25 passes defensed - 8 forced fumbles/ 5 recoveries - 1 touchdown (INT), 1 safety - Hasn't been flagged for anything since the 2013 season Von Miller career numbers: - 72 starts - 60 sacks (2011: 11.5 in 15 starts, 2012: 18.5 in 16 starts, 2013: 5.0 in 9 starts, 2014: 14.0 in 16 starts, 2015: 11.0 in 16 starts) - 1 interception - 10 passes defensed - 17 forced fumbles/ 5 recoveries - 1 touchdown (INT), 1 touchdown (fumble recovery), 0 safeties - Consistently penalized, often for personal fouls For me, considering the numbers..... I still take Houston. Statistically, I can argue he's been better in every phase of the game except for forcing fumbles. Miller does have the playoff success to attribute in his argument, but Houston of course didn't hardly play in this year's playoffs. Regardless, this a fun topic no matter the time of year. So, who do you take?
Posts: 29,037

02-14-2016, 01:43 PM	#128
pugsnotdrugs19 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2013 Casino cash: $6609447	You can't use one game as your argument for why Miller is the consistently better player. If that's the case, the Brady vs. Manning argument would be over based on Tom's MVP's in the Super Bowl, as if Peyton's regular season awards were meaningless.
Posts: 29,037

02-14-2016, 01:52 PM	#129
Tombstone RJ Broncos' Fan Extraordinaire! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denver Casino cash: $10012184	Miller is one of 7 players at either LBer or DT that has won the SB MVP since it's inception. The others are Chuck Howley (DT for Dallas), Harvey Martin (DE/DT Dallas), Randy White (DE, DT, OLB Dallas), Richard Dent (DT Chicago), Ray Lewis (LB Baltimore), Malcolm Smith (OLB Seattle) and Von Miller (OLB Denver). Most were won in the 1970s where the rules were more favorable to defenses. __________________ ORANGE COLORED GLASSES ARE ALWAYS ON!
Posts: 6,151

02-14-2016, 02:03 PM	#131
Northman Rookie Join Date: Nov 2013 Casino cash: $10004900	Both are really good but i still would take Von (of course im a little biased) but i feel Von is far more dynamic. Von reminds me a lot of the late Derrick Thomas.
Posts: 6