Chiefs Fire Bob Sutton - Page 96

**petegz28** · 10-19-2017, 10:12 PM

That is all.

WhiteWhale · 10-15-2018, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I will say this (since I just said it another thread)...

Hitchens was a good player in Dallas. Fuller was a good player in Washington. Not even "decent" - they were both very good players before.

They both look lost out there much of the time.

There's 2 VERY GOOD reasons to fire Sutton right there.

They doubled down in the offseason on talent being the problem, maybe Veach needs to get pissed off that Sutton is making him look bad.

Something has to give. They're awful.

I want a house cleaning. Reid can have his son get a real DL coach coffee or something.

**The Franchise** · 10-15-2018, 11:08 AM

I'll say this....you can't really play the entire year with a defense this bad and not expect to get fired after this season. If you have a historically bad defense.....someone's head has to roll.

htismaqe · 10-15-2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

If Sutton is in any way responsible for the structure of this shit-show, then his blame elevates.

I mean, it's HIS system right? Is he not making clear to scouts and leadership what kind of players he needs? I find it impossible to believe he's not influencing this at all. What about his assistants developing this talent? Are we ****ing up in the draft or are they failing to grow what they have? They're the ones coaching them on details and watching over their development, of which I see none. Has anyone on this defense IMPROVED as a player over the past 3 years? Is Jones better than he was as a rookie? Looks the same. Flashes some talent an then disappears. I'm not sure if Dee Ford has improved or the whole team's performance has dropped to a level where he stands out.

The problems we see are on such a basic level that it implicates EVERYONE... just like that Dick Vermeil shit-show. It's not just the DC. It's the whole defensive culture.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say for WEEKS.

I mean let's look at just one aspect - the position coaches. Our defensive backs are awful. Their coach, Emmitt Thomas, isn't Sutton's guy. Heck, he isn't even REID'S guy. They retained him from the previous staff, despite all of the failure under Romeo Crennell.

I'm all for firing Bob Sutton but it's not a magic Viagra pill for the defense. The problems on this defense go much, much deeper.

ping2000 · 10-15-2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pest

1. Trade for Patrick Peterson. This allows you to move Scandrick to the CB2 spot and Fuller to the nickle.
2. Cut Ragland and give his snaps to Niemann/O'Daniel.
3. Load up Berry with pain killers and get his ass on the field. Play or get ****ing cut.

I support this plan. Won't fix everything, but better than sitting on ass.

WhiteWhale · 10-15-2018, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I will say this (since I just said it another thread)...

Hitchens was a good player in Dallas. Fuller was a good player in Washington. Not even "decent" - they were both very good players before.

They both look lost out there much of the time.

There's 2 VERY GOOD reasons to fire Sutton right there.

They doubled down in the offseason on talent being the problem, maybe Veach needs to get pissed off that Sutton is making him look bad.

Something has to give. They're awful.

Damn, you posted this while I expressed the exact same thought in response to another post.

The development is SHIT. We're regressing talented players and haven't developed anyone.

htismaqe · 10-15-2018, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

they put Parker on Gronk which isn't a great option but better than what they did.

It is why Reid seemed pissed after it happened and was basically yelling at Sutton.

I don't think it matters anyway the D wasn't going to stop them so useless to argue about it.

Parker was getting burned all night.

**The Franchise** · 10-15-2018, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Parker was getting burned all night.

Parker is done but we literally have nothing to bump him out of that spot. It's ****ing pathetic.

O.city · 10-15-2018, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

In fairness, you're not remembering this quite right.

The Speaks sack/strip was a straight up coverage sack after we sent 3 and then when Brady left the pocket, one of the LBs left his zone and pursued. That was a true bombshell coverage and it worked there.

Sometimes those are the way to go. Sometimes bringing heat is the way to go. I don't even really have a problem with what we did and when we did it - the problem I have is how ungodly easy we made it to diagnose all of it. There was just nothing you couldn't see from the second you got everyone up on the line.

A play that nobody will talk about is the 3rd and 1 play. That's a play where Sutton actually got it right and the damn line actually won the initial impact. They stopped the pile and got into the backfield enough to disrupt Michel. But when it came time for one of the damn LBs to put a hat on him HARD and turn him sideways, we couldn't do it.

There were execution errors on execution errors. And Sutton did absolutely nothing to make things complicated, though I'll consider the validity of O.City's point w/r/t the number of new players. Like I said - this is the first time I've seen Sutton play this kind of 'meh' all year; he's generally far more creative even if folks don't want to acknowledge same. Maybe he just didn't have the time for a full install with that many newish guys on the field. I don't think yesterday was fireable, but I do think yesterday was a bad day for Bob and it's hard to deny that.

But folks, the takeaway for me is still that we went out there without our 2 highest paid players and the only 2 true potential 'superstars' we have on defense, not to mention spent most of the game down 2 starting OLs. And we didn't even have the backups to those 2 superstars on the field; we had the backups backups out there. The Patriots, OTOH, were essentially completely healthy.

And the offense played like shit for a half. And of course the Patriots miraculously committed zero penalties. And Sutton brought the creativity of a paper sack to bear. I mean good lord - if you'd have read me that game script I'd have said we lost by 24.

But instead we lost on a last second FG that probably doesn't happen if our rookie OLB hadn't shot himself in the face trying to avoid a penalty made an issue by a set of bullshit new rules.

Nothing about last night went right and we still had a genuine shot. It's okay, fellas.

Nice.

And if last nights game doesn't make you wanna throw some help at the D this year, now, well. I mean damn.

The Chiefs offense right now it special. It may end up being like ridiculously special.

You've gotta do what you can this year.

Middlekauf brings it up (I know I've brought him up a lot, but I love his stuff) but he says this CHiefs offense looks like the early Warriors with Steph and Klay. I mean, it's like "ok, we're gonna put up 40, try and beat us". Last night, the Pats did. But I'll be damn if the offense wasn't in a spot to put up 50.

**** me man. It's fun. The Denver game and last night to me, are the biggest things I wanna see Pat do. He was bad in both first halves, but the mfer didn't blink and just came out throwing haymakers in the 2nd half.

DJ's left nut · 10-15-2018, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gold_and_red

A new DC cannot fix the talent level but I sure expect to see more fire and attitude. Both Reid and Sutton don't radiate that nastiness.

But here's the thing - that's not generally a DC's job on a day to day basis. I mean sure, there are grandstanding dickbag clowns like Rob Ryan who do shit like that, but you think Wade Phillips is out there chewing glass with his boys?

Attitude and technique isn't really a DC thing - that's a position coach thing.

You've got guys in here saying "well give Britt Reid a shot!". Gents - who the **** do you think is coaching up that defensive lineman during the week? If you think those guys aren't playing with passion, why does that not fall on the guy who spends the most time working with them? And I just cannot convince myself that the secondaries coaches who have been great for many years suddenly forgot what they're doing.

Now that said - they've got a new ILB coach this season; Mark DeLeone. And yeah, we can go ahead and can that mother****er. Because these inside linebackers don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and that's the dude that's working with them for hours each week. He's been an assistant LBs coach prior to this season so I have no track record to reach back to with him.

I mean there's a chance that this ****ing guy right here:

simply has no idea what it is he's trying to accomplish. When the ILBs are routinely being exposed, that's an issue. Especially when Ragland looks a shitload worse than he looked last season when this guy WASN'T his position coach.

I'd have no qualms at all getting a new voice in here for the ILBs. Those guys need someone to snap them the hell out of it and I don't think it would be too much of a risk to pull the trigger there.

**dirk digler** · 10-15-2018, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I will say this (since I just said it another thread)...

Hitchens was a good player in Dallas. Fuller was a good player in Washington. Not even "decent" - they were both very good players before.

They both look lost out there much of the time.

There's 2 VERY GOOD reasons to fire Sutton right there.

They doubled down in the offseason on talent being the problem, maybe Veach needs to get pissed off that Sutton is making him look bad.

Something has to give. They're awful.

Ron Parker and other defensive players have said it takes 2 years to learn Bob's scheme. Probably why rookies don't play unless he is forced to play them.

Petro has said multiple times that if your scheme takes 2 years to learn your scheme sucks which is something I totally agree with.

htismaqe · 10-15-2018, 11:15 AM

That picture alone is grounds for termination.

WhiteWhale · 10-15-2018, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pest

I'll say this....you can't really play the entire year with a defense this bad and not expect to get fired after this season. If you have a historically bad defense.....someone's head has to roll.

Yeah, and I'm staking my claim.

Sutton's head isn't enough. I want a full blown house cleaning of defensive coaches. The regression of this defense over the past 5 years is unacceptable.

**The Franchise** · 10-15-2018, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Yeah, and I'm staking my claim.

Sutton's head isn't enough. I want a full blown house cleaning of defensive coaches. The regression of this defense over the past 5 years is unacceptable.

There isn't one ****ing coach on the defensive side of the ball that should be saved.

RunKC · 10-15-2018, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

When players like Murray and Ragland perform as badly as they have been, it's time to let the newcomers learn by fire.

Yeah I’m sure any coach would do this when their job is on the line

**Easy 6** · 10-15-2018, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

This is exactly what I've been trying to say for WEEKS.

I mean let's look at just one aspect - the position coaches. Our defensive backs are awful. Their coach, Emmitt Thomas, isn't Sutton's guy. Heck, he isn't even REID'S guy. They retained him from the previous staff, despite all of the failure under Romeo Crennell.

I'm all for firing Bob Sutton but it's not a magic Viagra pill for the defense. The problems on this defense go much, much deeper.

I thought Thomas had taken a backseat role to Al Harris these days

10-19-2017, 10:12 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-955873	Fire Bob Sutton That is all.
Posts: 132,380

10-15-2018, 11:08 AM	#1427
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2065047	I'll say this....you can't really play the entire year with a defense this bad and not expect to get fired after this season. If you have a historically bad defense.....someone's head has to roll.
Posts: 92,316

10-15-2018, 11:15 AM	#1436
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8179900	That picture alone is grounds for termination.
Posts: 104,293