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Old 03-04-2019, 04:52 PM  
The Franchise The Franchise is offline
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Chiefs tag Ford

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Old 03-04-2019, 06:14 PM   #91
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Very true. Watkins deal is not good. Way too much. Hitch as well looked like ass. Maybe new staff can do better. I think they will but his first draft is still up in the air. He's earned no faith yet.
Hitch looked like ass, but the hope here is that he was always meant to eventually play in the 43, where we hope he'll be better.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:14 PM   #92
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Box safeties just aren’t THAT hard to find. That’s why you don’t go paying them that much

Single high safeties that take the ball away are hard to find
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:14 PM   #93
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That's the other thing. You'd be paying Flowers MORE than what you'd pay Ford this year. And you'd be locked into him, unlike Ford.
And if you tag Ford this year......what are you doing with him next year?

If he has another break out year....then the cost of his contract just increased a ton. Or you let him walk and get a 3rd round comp pick out of him....assuming you don't sign anyone else.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:14 PM   #94
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The chiefs pretty much had to release Houston for the cap space. Teams know that

The cardinals don’t have to with Jones but could sell high
Good point
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:14 PM   #95
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I'm not down on either of those guys. But there's no denying that the defense would be getting worse.

You're taking the only thing this D did well and removing it and hoping they're better for it.

Maybe they trade both. I'm not ruling it out. But i can't see that making them a better unit in 2019.
While I partially agree with you, Chris Jones was a big part of the pass rush and Speaks was drafted to be a pass rusher.

If we get 2 decently high picks out of Ford you take them because he wont be here either way in 2020. He isn't getting a long term deal from KC so strike while the iron is hot.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:15 PM   #96
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No, they were #1 in sacks. It's not the same thing. That pass rush disappeared often when we needed it most.

We lost multiple games in which we scored 40 points.

In the AFC championship game, when we needed it most, we couldn't get to Brady.

We also couldn't stop the run all year long.

There are no sacred cows on a historically bad defense.

Absolutely this. I don’t GAF how many times you sack stiffs like Jimmy G and Derek Carr when you’re beating their teams by 20. Name the one play you can remember from the AFCG that included Ford or Houston(whose passion I appreciate). Yep, that’s the one play I can remember also.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:15 PM   #97
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Have you actually watched football?

Did you actually watch the Chiefs defense this year?

Your post tells me you did not.

A SS has just as many opportunities to impact the game if not more so than a FS.
Intercepting the ball and giving it back to your offense is more impactful than tackling a running back for a 3 yard gain

This isn’t hard
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:15 PM   #98
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It's not one player. It's likely 4+.

You have to retain SOMETHING to build around.

If you gut this defense, it'll have one notable player to build around. And that very well may be their plan. But you're creating more holes, and you already have plenty to fill. Houston is gone. That's a given. Berry may be gone as well. All you have left now is Chris Jones.

But their plan may not include a solidified way of actually being better in 2019.

Their plan may be just like last season, which was, "**** it, we know we're gonna suck and we'll deal with it until we stop sucking".
Dude, they franchise tagged Ford. If he's not gone this year, he'll be gone next. The only way he isn't is if he signs a long term deal, which none of you guys want.

So the whole "you have to build around something" argument holds ZERO water. You can't build around somebody that won't be here.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:16 PM   #99
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That's the other thing. You'd be paying Flowers MORE than what you'd pay Ford this year. And you'd be locked into him, unlike Ford.
1) I doubt it will be MORE, but it will likely be similar
2)He's younger than Ford, without the injury history. I have no problem paying a good young player on a multi-year deal.
3) Flowers over Ford makes your defense better OVERALL.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:16 PM   #100
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And if you tag Ford this year......what are you doing with him next year?

If he has another break out year....then the cost of his contract just increased a ton. Or you let him walk and get a 3rd round comp pick out of him....assuming you don't sign anyone else.
If he has another breakout year, with the scheme change, then you pay him. If you STILL don't think he's worth it, fine tag and trade is still on the table, except his value will be greater.

Why would you not pay a talented, PROVEN, young pass rusher that you drafted and developed?
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:16 PM   #101
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And if you tag Ford this year......what are you doing with him next year?

If he has another break out year....then the cost of his contract just increased a ton. Or you let him walk and get a 3rd round comp pick out of him....assuming you don't sign anyone else.
Ideally you get another double digit sack high pressure season
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:16 PM   #102
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Exactly.

Why not just trust that Veach and the coaching staff KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING?

Furthermore, how do you go from trusting them to thinking they're dumb because of ONE PLAYER?

I mean, my feelings on tagging Ford and keeping him are well-known but I've never once said they were DUMB for doing it. I always made it clear it was my personal preference.
I always felt they were hedging a bet. If everything falls apart and you can't get anything worth a **** for Ford, then you have a pure pass rusher that you can use in somewhat of D. Thomas role( though hardly to those results )instead of trying to force him into playing DE which would be a complete failure.
I think they went in to this hoping to get Houston to restructure and give HIM the chance to make the transition to DE while keeping Ford as the #1 OLB. When that didn't pan out, they decided it was just better to clean house and bring in guys that were untouched by the old system, or that weren't "big fish" in the VERY little pond that was the Chiefs defense of the last two seasons.

Whatever the case may be, the much ballyhooed "pass rush" that some are shedding tears over completely ****ing disappeared against NE in the AFCCG while the run defense and secondary hobbled along like a bunch of gimpy bitches when it truly mattered, so I don't give a **** about how many sacks we may or may not be losing. Besides, pressures are far more important anyway.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:16 PM   #103
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Gutting the only part of this defense that was good in 2018 would be a pretty poor start for Veach, yes. Especially considering there isn't anyone hitting the free agent market that is as good of a passrushing as Dee Ford. Trey Flowers is your best bet and then you're paying 14-17 million for a Belicheck cast off whose best season sack total is 7.5. yay.
You could get Ezekiel Ansah, who is similar to Ford yet better, and his 2019 cap number would likely be HALF of what Ford's is going to be.

Try harder.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:16 PM   #104
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A free safety that can take the ball away is more impactful than a box safety that is just good in coverage and makes plays vs the run

Get a linebacker for that
If we had one of those last year we would have been in the SB.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:17 PM   #105
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If he has another breakout year, with the scheme change, then you pay him. If you STILL don't think he's worth it, fine tag and trade is still on the table, except his value will be greater.

Why would you not pay a talented, PROVEN, young pass rusher that you drafted and developed?
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Ideally you get another double digit sack high pressure season
And then he costs even more......sweet.
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