*****OFFICIAL 2022 Border War Hoops and HATE Thread

[Chiefspants]

Alright y’all! We got a game this Saturday. The reigning National Champion Jayhawks are as self-righteous as ever and coming to Columbia, where the Tigers look like they could have their best coached team since the Obama administration. Self is still figuring out his rotations (to a painful degree), and in Columbia anything can happen.

This thread can also be used to talk football and how this rivalry is oh so dead, which is why a bowl game that is not happening has arguments spilling over into Mizzou threads, KU threads, college football threads, and twitter and facebook wars all over my feed.

Join me and let’s all talk about how this game doesn’t matter anymore and all angrily ask why I’m missing asterisks in the thread title.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Anyone who rationally thinks the Big 12 is a superior football conference to the SEC is a ****ing idiot and should be institutionalized.

At one point it was REALLY clear the SEC was just better and deeper than every other conference out there.

Recent years though, I'm not so sure. And you can look back at bowl games and other ranked vs ranked games. I think Bama and Georgia skew it a ton, but after them, look at NYD Bowls where it's like 3rd in the SEC vs 3rd in the B12 or B1G, and there just isn't that huge gap people make it out to be.

And I could be wrong... IIRC, in the mid-2010s, they would be like 9-2 in bowls, but I think they were under .500 last year or recently.

It's like so many other things that get hyped up... the "greatest show on turf" WAS pretty great, yet the media was still calling them that like 3 years too late. The B1G was getting embarrassed in big bowl games for years before they stopped getting the benefit of the doubt. Same for Notre Dame.

I feel like the rest of the SEC outside of the top two has gotten weaker in recent years, but people still prop it up as some unbeatable conference because of those two teams.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Oh I agree that the gap isn’t as large as it once was, but it is still there. The SEC has come back to the pack a bit, but you can’t realistically hold the Big 12 up against the SEC when the last time the Big 12 had a Natty in football was, what, Texas in early 2000’s? (unless I’m missing one from Oklahoma since then)

The Big 12 has gotten better in football, no doubt, but it is still not at the level of the SEC. A big part of that is recruiting. The SEC just gets more of the top players. But that’s been the case for a long time. Even Mizzou recruiting has gotten a significant bump just from being in the SEC. That’s something you can sell to recruits. For purposes of exposure, NFL Draft attention, etc.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Have you heard, the Jayhawks lost 6 our of 7 and some of those games they lost by double digits.

Wasn't sure if you had heard the Jayhawks lost 6 our of 7 and some of those games they lost by double digits, so just wanted to tell you the Jayhawks lost 6 our of 7 and some of those games they lost by double digits in case no one had mentioned in this thread that the Jayhawks lost 6 our of 7 and some of those games they lost by double digits.


Just don't bring up the minor point about losing their starting QB for several games as that's just an excuse for why the Jayhawks lost 6 our of 7 and some of those games they lost by double digits. Just stick to the facts, the Jayhawks lost 6 our of 7 and some of those games they lost by double digits.

Need to photoshop


LOST 6 OF LAST 7

on to the sign Eli Dysfunction was holding.

nfm

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

Need to photoshop


LOST 6 OF LAST 7

on to the sign Eli Dysfunction was holding.

nfm

[WilliamTheIrish]

Hahahahaha

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

At one point it was REALLY clear the SEC was just better and deeper than every other conference out there.

Recent years though, I'm not so sure. And you can look back at bowl games and other ranked vs ranked games. I think Bama and Georgia skew it a ton, but after them, look at NYD Bowls where it's like 3rd in the SEC vs 3rd in the B12 or B1G, and there just isn't that huge gap people make it out to be.

And I could be wrong... IIRC, in the mid-2010s, they would be like 9-2 in bowls, but I think they were under .500 last year or recently.

It's like so many other things that get hyped up... the "greatest show on turf" WAS pretty great, yet the media was still calling them that like 3 years too late. The B1G was getting embarrassed in big bowl games for years before they stopped getting the benefit of the doubt. Same for Notre Dame.

I feel like the rest of the SEC outside of the top two has gotten weaker in recent years, but people still prop it up as some unbeatable conference because of those two teams.

NIL lets everyone pay to play. Why go to bama and sit on the bench hoping you win a championship when you can start at Michigan State or Texas Tech and get paid to be the stud on the team?

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Lol. Now that’s funny.

I have ZERO doubt that if that sign was available in the crowd, Drink would have found it and held it up.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Mizzou is a middling team in the SEC. Can't argue that right now.

Kansas is at best (if we go ONLY by this years results and ignore the previous decade) a middling team in the Big 12.

Anyone who rationally thinks the Big 12 is a superior football conference to the SEC is a ****ing idiot and should be institutionalized.

Anybody who thinks that KU hasn’t improved dramatically since Leipold arrived is also an idiot. Know anybody with that opinion?

Interesting how you pick and choose which facts are relevant isn’t it?

One thing’s for sure…there isn’t nearly as large of a gap between the leagues as you homers like to think there is. Certainly not enough to belittle a team for being in the Big 12. The SEC has some strong teams at the top and a lot of mediocrity after. How often does Missouri even play a truly elite team like Alabama? Not very.

Btw, can you really claim to be a middling team if only 3 of 15 teams had a worse conference record?

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Oh I agree that the gap isn’t as large as it once was, but it is still there. The SEC has come back to the pack a bit, but you can’t realistically hold the Big 12 up against the SEC when the last time the Big 12 had a Natty in football was, what, Texas in early 2000’s? (unless I’m missing one from Oklahoma since then)

The Big 12 has gotten better in football, no doubt, but it is still not at the level of the SEC. A big part of that is recruiting. The SEC just gets more of the top players. But that’s been the case for a long time. Even Mizzou recruiting has gotten a significant bump just from being in the SEC. That’s something you can sell to recruits. For purposes of exposure, NFL Draft attention, etc.

You act like there’s a perfect system of determining a champ in CFB. It’s insanely flawed. Slightly better now with a playoff, but still very flawed. You’re relying on a committee of goofs to determine the four best teams in the nation. Who’s to say that a one loss SEC team is better than an undefeated or one loss team from another league? They give the top SEC teams the benefit of the doubt. You’re telling me their opinions carry a lot more weight than ranking systems? Why?

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

You act like there’s a perfect system of determining a champ in CFB. It’s insanely flawed. Slightly better now with a playoff, but still very flawed. You’re relying on a committee of goofs to determine the four best teams in the nation. Who’s to say that a one loss SEC team is better than an undefeated or one loss team from another league? They give the top SEC teams the benefit of the doubt. You’re telling me their opinions carry a lot more weight than ranking systems? Why?

Preseason polls are just a killer with such a short season.

You can rank UNC #1 in CBB and if they kind of suck, they'll be gone in a few weeks or at the very worst when they hit non-con.

Football though, you assume 4 B1G and 6 SEC teams deserve to be ranked in the preseason and everything from that point forward is based on that ranking. Preseason rank Michigan State #15 for some reason. And then Purdue beats them in week 2.... well shit, Purdue must be pretty damn good, let's rank them! And then Purdue loses to unranked Indiana the following week... well shit, Indiana must be pretty decent, right?!?

Add to it a team like Ohio State not doing shit all season, but keeping their rank only because Michigan was highly ranked for reasons... or Bama being #1 by not playing anyone.

Not to say those teams aren't good, but it's all based on those assumptions made before the season started, and it's a huge domino effect that never really sorts itself out.

Of course, there's no great way around it, as you have to start somewhere... and they've tried computer rankings and what not.

I've always wanted 8 teams in a playoff and could see 12, where the top 4 get a bye and the other 8 are basically play-in games. Beats the current format of "assume Bama, Georgia, and OSU are amazing every year".

[Pepe Silvia]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

He should hold a sign that says I love Brady Cook long time.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

but you can’t realistically hold the Big 12 up against the SEC.

Of course you can. Sagarin says so, and since Vegas bases their spreads on Sagarin’s predictor with abiut 95% alignment, they agree.


I looked up the last 7 years of his conf ratings (I figured you wouldn’t know how to). Here’s the yearly rating for each division:

2015 1. West 85.03 7. B12 75.28 9 East 72.55
2016 1. West 81.22 5. B12 75.86 8 east 73.17
2017 1. West 81.83 4. B12 78.45 9 east 72.41
2018 1. West 83.24 2. East 79.90 5. B12 77.35
2019 1. West 82.78 2 b12 79.52 4 east 77.61
2021 1. West 81.24 2. B12 78.70 6 east 75.11
2022 1. B12 81.09 2. West 80.80 3. East 79.83

Avg: West: 82.30 B12: 78.40 East: 75.43 (SEC Avg: 78.86

Net: over the last 7 years the avg SEC team is less than 0.5 points better than the avg B12.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Preseason polls are just a killer with such a short season.

You can rank UNC #1 in CBB and if they kind of suck, they'll be gone in a few weeks or at the very worst when they hit non-con.

Football though, you assume 4 B1G and 6 SEC teams deserve to be ranked in the preseason and everything from that point forward is based on that ranking. Preseason rank Michigan State #15 for some reason. And then Purdue beats them in week 2.... well shit, Purdue must be pretty damn good, let's rank them! And then Purdue loses to unranked Indiana the following week... well shit, Indiana must be pretty decent, right?!?

Add to it a team like Ohio State not doing shit all season, but keeping their rank only because Michigan was highly ranked for reasons... or Bama being #1 by not playing anyone.

Not to say those teams aren't good, but it's all based on those assumptions made before the season started, and it's a huge domino effect that never really sorts itself out.

Of course, there's no great way around it, as you have to start somewhere... and they've tried computer rankings and what not.

I've always wanted 8 teams in a playoff and could see 12, where the top 4 get a bye and the other 8 are basically play-in games. Beats the current format of "assume Bama, Georgia, and OSU are amazing every year".

Exactly. Those teams are basically handed playoff spots before the season begins and they just have to avoid screwing it up.

What a system!

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Anybody who thinks that KU hasn’t improved dramatically since Leipold arrived is also an idiot. Know anybody with that opinion?

Interesting how you pick and choose which facts are relevant isn’t it?

One thing’s for sure…there isn’t nearly as large of a gap between the leagues as you homers like to think there is. Certainly not enough to belittle a team for being in the Big 12. The SEC has some strong teams at the top and a lot of mediocrity after. How often does Missouri even play a truly elite team like Alabama? Not very.

Btw, can you really claim to be a middling team if only 3 of 15 teams had a worse conference record?

Improved? Yes. Dramatically improved? Remains to be seen.

How often does Missouri play a truly elite team? Well, they play Georgia every year. Would you consider them truly elite? They play Bama about once every 3 years.

“Only 3 of 15 teams had a worse conference record” Interesting you chose to word it that way. First of all, there’s only 14 teams in the SEC. Secondly, only 7 SEC teams had a better conference record than Mizzou. There was a bunch of teams that finished 3-5 in conference, MIssouri being one of those. I would call that middling, along with several others. It’s not like they’re a bottom feeder like Vanderbilt (or Kansas for the last decade).

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Improved? Yes. Dramatically improved? Remains to be seen.

How often does Missouri play a truly elite team? Well, they play Georgia every year. Would you consider them truly elite? They play Bama about once every 3 years.

“Only 3 of 15 teams had a worse conference record” Interesting you chose to word it that way. First of all, there’s only 14 teams in the SEC. Secondly, only 7 SEC teams had a better conference record than Mizzou. There was a bunch of teams that finished 3-5 in conference, MIssouri being one of those. I would call that middling, along with several others. It’s not like they’re a bottom feeder like Vanderbilt (or Kansas for the last decade).

Georgia’s been really good the last 5-6 years. Before that they’d been unranked in 5 of the previous 8 years.

So you add one more loss to your record when you play Georgia once a year, and Alabama hangs a loss on you every 3-4 years. Wow, you’ve got it so rough! It’s not like KU plays Oklahoma every year and other top 10 teams.

Bragging about being in the SEC is such a joke at this point. Quit living vicariously through the accomplishments of a few much better programs. It would be like a TCU basketball fan bragging about KU’s accomplishments.