What's going on in Cincinnati?

[Direckshun]

Can somebody explain what's happening?

Burrow and Chase are both eligible for monstrous deals that will re-set the market. Are neither of them happening?!

They said they are committed to keeping Tee Higgins... alright, fine. But the guy wants a $20m/year contract?

Are they going to just hit the snooze button on this for a year somehow? Are these deals getting done?

What's going on?

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

KC is 1-3 vs. CIN last I checked. CIN has outscored KC something like 20-6 in the 4th quarter over the last 3 games. Those are facts. And let's not forget that CIN was down 3/5 starting OLs in the last one. So let's not pretend that KC just dominated the last AFCCG.

I'll keep saying it. CIN has been able to stall the KC offense repeatedly, and the lack of talent in the WR group has been glaring in the last two matchups. The KC defense has done its job over the last three games vs. CIN, but the offense hasn't been able to even score to their season average.

And right now, we have one returning WR that we can probably depend on in MVS, and the rest of the room is pretty much wishful thinking.

We HOPE Toney can stay healthy, and then we HOPE he can perform reliably for a season.

We HOPE Skyy can triple his production and score more than zero TDs.

We HOPE Justyn and John can do anything in the regular season. Anything would be better than zero.

We HOPE McKinnon returns and performs at about the same level.

We HOPE Justin Watson returns and at least gives us the same level of production.

We HOPE whoever we draft can produce at least as well as Hardman did in his first season.




But right now, the Chiefs WR room is far less talented than it was in 2022, that can't be argued. And no real answers either in the TE or the RB rooms at the moment. Just more hopes, except for Pacheco.

CIN doesn't have to hope. They don't even need their defense to perform at the same level as they did in 2022. They need to simply be a little more efficient on offense, play average on defense, and they'll be able to notch another W.

From their perspective, I don't know what else they'd be thinking. They have the upper hand, and the stats as well as the results to prove it. If their OTs had been healthy, chances are CIN goes to the SB. If I were their FO/ownership that's what I'd be thinking.

Interesting that you make excuses for the Bengals injuries, but no excuse for the Chiefs? KC's receiver group was wiped out with injury very early in that game and their QB was on a sprained ankle that happened 7 days before the game. Tight End also played with a bad back in that game too. Injury stuff goes both ways. It is a fact that the Chiefs have had the lead in the 4th quarter of all 4 matchups, so I don't think you can say the Bengals have "dominated" them as you said in your earlier post.

I do think they will do everything they can to backload the hell out of Burrow & Chase's contracts, which will potentially allow them to keep that strong defense for the next 4-5 years. They were lucky the Cardinals were dumb enough to hire the Philly DC instead of the Cincy DC as well, so Cincy keeps the same great defensive coach leading that side of the ball...for now.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DRM08

Interesting that you make excuses for the Bengals injuries, but no excuse for the Chiefs? KC's receiver group was wiped out with injury very early in that game and their QB was on a sprained ankle that happened 7 days before the game. Tight End also played with a bad back in that game too. Injury stuff goes both ways. It is a fact that the Chiefs have had the lead in the 4th quarter of all 4 matchups, so I don't think you can say the Bengals have "dominated" them as you said in your earlier post.

I do think they will do everything they can to backload the hell out of Burrow & Chase's contracts, which will potentially allow them to keep that strong defense for the next 4-5 years. They were lucky the Cardinals were dumb enough to hire the Philly DC instead of the Cincy DC as well, so Cincy keeps the same great defensive coach leading that side of the ball...for now.

You're talking about one game; I'm trying to explain how the head-to-head matchups have gone over the last 4 games. you're right, injures happen. But they also kind of cancel over the course of several games. The fact of the matter is that CIN has beaten the Chiefs more than the Chiefs have beaten the Bengals. I can't really pretty that up, it is what it is.

And how can I realistically say that the Chiefs now have the upper hand with less talent in the WR room than we had in the last four matchups? If we were talking about two other teams, would you be arguing with me?

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

You're talking about one game; I'm trying to explain how the head-to-head matchups have gone over the last 4 games. you're right, injures happen. But they also kind of cancel over the course of several games. The fact of the matter is that CIN has beaten the Chiefs more than the Chiefs have beaten the Bengals. I can't really pretty that up, it is what it is.

And how can I realistically say that the Chiefs now have the upper hand with less talent in the WR room than we had in the last four matchups? If we were talking about two other teams, would you be arguing with me?

You said Cincy dominated in the AFC title game last year, which isn't true. They won by 3 points. KC was leading in the 4th quarter of all 4 games. The Bengals have not dominated any of the games. If you're having to come from behind in the 4th quarter to win, that's not dominance.

Cincy is one of the best teams in the league for sure. It remains to be seen what happens to their defense over the long haul when they finally have to pay their best players on the offensive side of the ball, but they will kick that can down the road as long as possible. They have maybe the best DC in the league right now and I'm curious to see how long they can keep him.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

KC is 1-3 vs. CIN last I checked. CIN has outscored KC something like 20-6 in the 4th quarter over the last 3 games. Those are facts. And let's not forget that CIN was down 3/5 starting OLs in the last one. So let's not pretend that KC just dominated the last AFCCG.

I'll keep saying it. CIN has been able to stall the KC offense repeatedly, and the lack of talent in the WR group has been glaring in the last two matchups. The KC defense has done its job over the last three games vs. CIN, but the offense hasn't been able to even score to their season average.

And right now, we have one returning WR that we can probably depend on in MVS, and the rest of the room is pretty much wishful thinking.

We HOPE Toney can stay healthy, and then we HOPE he can perform reliably for a season.

We HOPE Skyy can triple his production and score more than zero TDs.

We HOPE Justyn and John can do anything in the regular season. Anything would be better than zero.

We HOPE McKinnon returns and performs at about the same level.

We HOPE Justin Watson returns and at least gives us the same level of production.

We HOPE whoever we draft can produce at least as well as Hardman did in his first season.




But right now, the Chiefs WR room is far less talented than it was in 2022, that can't be argued. And no real answers either in the TE or the RB rooms at the moment. Just more hopes, except for Pacheco.

CIN doesn't have to hope. They don't even need their defense to perform at the same level as they did in 2022. They need to simply be a little more efficient on offense, play average on defense, and they'll be able to notch another W.

From their perspective, I don't know what else they'd be thinking. They have the upper hand, and the stats as well as the results to prove it. If their OTs had been healthy, chances are CIN goes to the SB. If I were their FO/ownership that's what I'd be thinking.

You forgot something.

CIN lost two of their best players on defense in safeties Vonn Bell and Jessie Bates III. They are hoping last year's first-round pick of Dax Hill can effectively replace an All-Pro after playing in 2 games last year and that they can get a rookie to play at a Pro Bowl level to replace the other. That's a tall task in a secondary that otherwise sucks.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DRM08

You said Cincy dominated in the AFC title game last year, which isn't true. They won by 3 points. KC was leading in the 4th quarter of all 4 games. The Bengals have not dominated any of the games. If you're having to come from behind in the 4th quarter to win, that's not dominance.

Cincy is one of the best teams in the league for sure. It remains to be seen what happens to their defense over the long haul when they finally have to pay their best players on the offensive side of the ball, but they will kick that can down the road as long as possible. They have maybe the best DC in the league right now and I'm curious to see how long they can keep him.

In the 2021 AFCCG they dominated the Chiefs in the 2nd half, allowing just one FG.

In the 2022 AFCCG, they allowed just a TD and a FG, and if not for a late INT and a timely penalty, in spite of the fact that they were down 3/5 OLs including both OTs, they might've have won that one.

But if the word "dominate" bothers you, fine, I retract that word. Not to put too fine a point on it, CIN has had KC's number over the last four meetings. And the regular season game last season should've been a minor blowout for CIN, if not for things like Boyd inexplicably dropping a sure TD.

And you're right, CIN has a great defense, which has been a big part of the problem. But KC has also lacked receiving talent recently, and I think that it's showed. And I also think that the way to beat CIN (and BUF, might as well throw them in there since they beat us last year) is to acquire better WRs. Or a top-flight TE. Whatever. More weapons. Our defense is doing about as well as you could ask for in the last three. It's the offense that hasn't played well enough.

All I'm saying is that the margin is probably razor thin, and they're probably the better team on paper if we don't get a very talented WR in the building and CIN keeps both Chase and Higgins in 2023.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

In the 2021 AFCCG they dominated the Chiefs in the 2nd half, allowing just one FG.

In the 2022 AFCCG, they allowed just a TD and a FG, and if not for a late INT and a timely penalty, in spite of the fact that they were down 3/5 OLs including both OTs, they might've have won that one.

But if the word "dominate" bothers you, fine, I retract that word. Not to put too fine a point on it, CIN has had KC's number over the last four meetings. And the regular season game last season should've been a minor blowout for CIN, if not for things like Boyd inexplicably dropping a sure TD.

And you're right, CIN has a great defense, which has been a big part of the problem. But KC has also lacked receiving talent recently, and I think that it's showed. And I also think that the way to beat CIN (and BUF, might as well throw them in there since they beat us last year) is to acquire better WRs. Or a top-flight TE. Whatever. More weapons. Our defense is doing about as well as you could ask for in the last three. It's the offense that hasn't played well enough.

All I'm saying is that the margin is probably razor thin, and they're probably the better team on paper if we don't get a very talented WR in the building and CIN keeps both Chase and Higgins in 2023.

Domination is what they did to Buffalo, 27-10 final score and probably could have been a lot worse than that for Buffalo if the Bengals were not so focused on running out the clock in the 2nd half.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by kccrow

You forgot something.

CIN lost two of their best players on defense in safeties Vonn Bell and Jessie Bates III. They are hoping last year's first-round pick of Dax Hill can effectively replace an All-Pro after playing in 2 games last year and that they can get a rookie to play at a Pro Bowl level to replace the other. That's a tall task in a secondary that otherwise sucks.

I didn't forget; I'm not sure it's going to be meaningful. Sure, those are two very good safeties. But what if all we bring to the game is MVS, Toney, Skyy and a rookie? Which Chiefs receiver can we depend on to make them pay for letting those guys go? Which would you be willing to bet real money on? Or are you among those that believe that KC can beat CIN with the likes of Marcus Kemp starting? We're just that good? Or is CIN just really not very good, and we shouldn't be concerned about the state of the WR room?

I'm not being negative; I'm trying to be realistic. I'm a little surprised that I'm one of the few.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DRM08

Domination is what they did to Buffalo, 27-10 final score and probably could have been a lot worse than that for Buffalo if the Bengals were not so focused on running out the clock in the 2nd half.

Lol, okay, I agree.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by kccrow

You forgot something.

CIN lost two of their best players on defense in safeties Vonn Bell and Jessie Bates III. They are hoping last year's first-round pick of Dax Hill can effectively replace an All-Pro after playing in 2 games last year and that they can get a rookie to play at a Pro Bowl level to replace the other. That's a tall task in a secondary that otherwise sucks.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with those guys.

The bigger thing in this offseason for Cincy was that they dodged the bullet of losing their DC, who does a hell of a job getting his guys to play at a very high level. I am curious to see if someone else will finally give him a HC spot eventually. Arizona damn near gave him the job.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I didn't forget; I'm not sure it's going to be meaningful. Sure, those are two very good safeties. But what if all we bring to the game is MVS, Toney, Skyy and a rookie? Which Chiefs receiver can we depend on to make them pay for letting those guys go? Which would you be willing to bet real money on? Or are you among those that believe that KC can beat CIN with the likes of Marcus Kemp starting? We're just that good? Or is CIN just really not very good, and we shouldn't be concerned about the state of the WR room?

I'm not being negative; I'm trying to be realistic. I'm a little surprised that I'm one of the few.

What I'm trying to relay is that Cincinnati took a huge hit to be able to defend our passing game. Losing those two guys cannot be underscored enough times. They were the best pair of safeties in the NFL.

So, for all the worries about our WRs getting open against them, they have all the worries about defending those WRs. We're both going to be young there and whoever gets the breakout guys is probably going to the SB again.

Let's hope its us. They have a 1st rounder in Dax they are banking on. We have a 1st rounder Toney we are banking on. It's going to be interesting.

Plus, Veach likely adds a couple of guys to the roster via the draft. With as many picks as we had, I'd pretty well take it to the bank.

I'm not as worried about replacing what JuJu provided as I am replacing what McKinnon provided at this point.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I didn't forget; I'm not sure it's going to be meaningful. Sure, those are two very good safeties. But what if all we bring to the game is MVS, Toney, Skyy and a rookie? Which Chiefs receiver can we depend on to make them pay for letting those guys go? Which would you be willing to bet real money on? Or are you among those that believe that KC can beat CIN with the likes of Marcus Kemp starting? We're just that good? Or is CIN just really not very good, and we shouldn't be concerned about the state of the WR room?

I'm not being negative; I'm trying to be realistic. I'm a little surprised that I'm one of the few.

Well, we beat them with MVS going 6/116 and a TD with Marcus Kemp lining up on the other side, and that's WITH the two excellent safeties and Mahomes on one leg.

So no, I don't think you are being particularly realistic.

I was REALLY nervous, dejected even, when we got down to MVS, Moore, and ****ing Kemp. I figured-that's it. We just don't have enough horses here, and with Mahomes on one leg, it's not enough.

I was wrong.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by kccrow

What I'm trying to relay is that Cincinnati took a huge hit to be able to defend our passing game. Losing those two guys cannot be underscored enough times. They were the best pair of safeties in the NFL.

So, for all the worries about our WRs getting open against them, they have all the worries about defending those WRs. We're both going to be young there and whoever gets the breakout guys is probably going to the SB again.

Let's hope its us. They have a 1st rounder in Dax they are banking on. We have a 1st rounder Toney we are banking on. It's going to be interesting.

Plus, Veach likely adds a couple of guys to the roster via the draft. With as many picks as we had, I'd pretty well take it to the bank.

I'm not as worried about replacing what JuJu provided as I am replacing what McKinnon provided at this point.

Pretty easy to just re-sign Mckinnon. He and Pacheco make a great pair.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Pretty easy to just re-sign Mckinnon. He and Pacheco make a great pair.

I'm hoping so and really question why that isn't done yet. It's significant passing game production.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DRM08

It'll be interesting to see what happens with those guys.

The bigger thing in this offseason for Cincy was that they dodged the bullet of losing their DC, who does a hell of a job getting his guys to play at a very high level. I am curious to see if someone else will finally give him a HC spot eventually. Arizona damn near gave him the job.

yeah, instead, they hired the DC that Andy put ****ing clown shoes on.

Hilarious.

I'm so glad I'm not an Arizona fan.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well, we beat them with MVS going 6/116 and a TD with Marcus Kemp lining up on the other side, and that's WITH the two excellent safeties and Mahomes on one leg.

So no, I don't think you are being particularly realistic.

I was REALLY nervous, dejected even, when we got down to MVS, Moore, and ****ing Kemp. I figured-that's it. We just don't have enough horses here, and with Mahomes on one leg, it's not enough.

I was wrong.

Plus Kelce was struggling with a back problem in that game too. The receiver group was utterly devastated with injury problems. They still moved the ball pretty dang well on a very good defense, even with Mahomes & Kelce nowhere close to 100%.

Cincy even got an absolute gift of a flukey turnover on the Mahomes fumble. Their defense did nothing to cause that shit, the ball just slipped out of his hand. If anything, his ankle problem helped the Bengals recover it because Patrick couldn't run like he normally does.