Chiefs Patrick Mahomes is entering his Donovan McNabb era - Page 2

Realbaddog · 12-12-2023, 05:02 PM

Found this, didn't see it posted prior:

The Kansas City Chiefs can point to a myriad of issues behind their offensive struggles, including Matt Nagy’s playcalling, but their rapid disarmament over the last two years has hit them where it hurts. If you’re searching for a culprit for Kansas City’s offensive demise and fall from top 10 in scoring for the first time since 2016, their wideouts have already been caught holding the bloody knife on the gridiron over the Super Bowl champions’ body. Patrick Mahomes, king of the tight spiral, discovered this season that he, too, is subject to the whims of his wideouts. For the second time in a matter of weeks, a Chiefs receiver has become the main NFL Twitter protagonist after butchering a miraculous Mahomes play on national television.

Kadarius Toney provided a glimpse into what type of season this would be in the Chiefs season-opening loss to the Detroit Lions. That night featured a perfect trinity of drops by Toney including his pièce de résistance in the final two minutes, on a bobbled pass that should have put the Chiefs in position to win. Lightning struck again when Marquez Valdes-Scantling dropped a deep bomb inside Philly’s 5 on one of the final plays of their Week 11 loss to the Eagles. On Sunday, Toney treated the line of scrimmage like an abstract concept, lined up offsides and wiped out the highlight of his and Kelce’s careers. The Chiefs offense is spiraling and the calls are coming from inside the house.

The root of this period of discontent has been Kansas City’s neglect in drafting or signing an elite receiver for Mahomes. It’s analogous to New England’s miscalculations in evaluating offensive skill positions during Tom Brady’s twilight with the Pats refusing to draft a wideout in the first round.

Reid has experimented with this method of team-building around cardboard cutout receivers before and it failed. Welcome to the Donovan McNabb experience. During Reid’s early years at the helm of the Philadelphia Eagles, he surrounded McNabb with flotsam at receiver, developed Brian Westbrook into an amorphous multi-purpose back who could create splash plays at receiver or in the run game.

The McNabb era in Philadelphia was defined by McNabb’s hero ball despite receivers who dropped the ball like they had carpal tunnel. The one season Philadelphia was gracious enough to bless him with Terrell Owens resulted in Philadelphia advancing past the NFC Championship in their fourth try and reaching the Super Bowl in McNabb and T.O.’s only full season together.

It was a near perfect storm that resulted in McNabb setting career-highs in yardage, yards-per-attempt, touchdowns and quarterback rating. Mahomes’ career has been the inverse of McNabb’s. He is a superior quarterback in nearly every way above the shoulders than McNabb, but Philadelphia’s bayonet offense forced McNabb to do considerably more of the dirty work than Mahomes has had to do with Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins and Travis Kelce creating separation downfield in the Chiefs high-octane attack.

McNabb was haunted by the follies of his wide receivers. Freddie Mitchell thanking god for his hands was the highlight of his Eagles career. James Thrash dropped a crucial pass in the 2004 NFC title game that cost the Eagles a trip to the Super Bowl, months before they acquired Owens. Staley and Todd Pinkston were denizens of Drop City during that championship loss to the Rams, while McNabb gutted it out for nearly three quarters with injured ribs.

In Owens’ shadow, Mitchell and Pinkston were the only Eagles receivers to reel in touchdowns for Philadelphia during their Super Bowl campaign, catching a grand total of three. Philadelphia should erect a monument to the heavy lifting McNabb did with such a mediocre cast of receivers.

During his stint in Philly, Westbrook, Pinkston, Chad Lewis, L.J. Smith, Thrash, Staley and Reggie Brown were his leading receivers. There isn’t a single 1,000-yard receiving season between the three of them. Not a single one. McNabb molded masterpieces from clay and dung.

Kansas City’s contemporary receivers highlight the importance of having competent hands in your lineup. For years, NFL cognoscenti have made it their mission to minimize the effect a great receiving corps can have on an offense spearheaded by a quarterback deity. Great offense is a polytheistic exercise. If anything, Kansas City’s shortcomings should only strengthen Tyreek Hill’s MVP case.

One season of this is enough. Kansas City can’t afford to prolong Mahomes and the passing attack’s suffering. If this season has taught us anything, it’s that while Reid has secured a slot in Canton after starting over in Kansas City, we should put a lot more respect on Donovan McNabb’s name and it should serve as a warning for Reid not to repeat his mistakes of that era.

Link: https://deadspin.com/patrick-mahomes...efs-1851094149

IowaHawkeyeChief · 12-12-2023, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Nothing in there particularly wrong. I've made comments about the Thrash/Pinkston era Eagles before as well, in reference to the fact that Reid has, a few times in the past, completely neglected the position.

I truly do believe that Reid doesn't put an emphasis on the position and instead thinks his system is greater than the position itself.

We saw it early in his tenure with the Chiefs. We've seen it with the Eagles. We're seeing it again with the Chiefs.

He's the 3rd winningest coach in NFL history. My God, if they build a roster similar to what they had in Philly, but have Mahomes instead of McNabb i would hope we will win more of the AFCCGs than we lose...

**lewdog** · 12-12-2023, 06:26 PM

I’d rather get drunk and ride in a car with Da Beard than read another Deadspin article.

staylor26 · 12-12-2023, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

He's the 3rd winningest coach in NFL history. My God, if they build a roster similar to what they had in Philly, but have Mahomes instead of McNabb i would hope we will win more of the AFCCGs than we lose...

I just don't get it.

The problem isn't that they've ignored the position. The problem is that they've missed on 2/3 of their investments through the draft/trades.

You would think that they didn't agressively trade up for Rice who's been an absolute stud rookie. I don't understand this place.

ToxSocks · 12-12-2023, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

He's the 3rd winningest coach in NFL history. My God, if they build a roster similar to what they had in Philly, but have Mahomes instead of McNabb i would hope we will win more of the AFCCGs than we lose...

And?

Is he not without faults? Is everything they do perfect? They're great. I love me some Reid and Veach. I don't want them going anywhere. But acknowledging a failure is not being a "hater".

Reid simply does not put a premium on the WR position. I truly believe he sees it as the least important position in his offense. Veach drafts accordingly.

Walking into the season as MVS and Watson as your "vet insurance" was a move that simply didnt work out.

MahomesMagic · 12-12-2023, 06:32 PM

The way that Brett Veach told the story of the Tyreek trade made it sound like the Tyreek trade was his idea and he had to sell Andy on trading Tyreek.

So if there is a guy that wants to "Donovan McNabb" Mahomes it's most likely not Reid.

staylor26 · 12-12-2023, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

The way that Brett Veach told the story of the Tyreek trade made it sound like the Tyreek trade was his idea and he had to sell Andy on trading Tyreek.

So if there is a guy that wants to "Donovan McNabb" Mahomes it's most likely not Reid.

You're talking out of your ass once again.

Nobody wants to "Donovan McNabb" Mahomes.

DrunkBassGuitar · 12-12-2023, 06:34 PM

Meatspin > deadspin

ToxSocks · 12-12-2023, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

I just don't get it.

The problem isn't that they've ignored the position. The problem is that they've missed on 2/3 of their investments through the draft/trades.

You would think that they didn't agressively trade up for Rice who's been an absolute stud rookie. I don't understand this place.

We're not gonna go back to the Moore debates...that guy was never going to be the lead dog in the WR room even if he did meet his potential.

Rice was a great pick.

The issue was assuming MVS and Watson were going to be your reliable, go-to vets while you ushered in your youth movement.

Those moves turned into an even bigger catastrophe when Moore and Toney didn't take steps forward.

You can say that they used resources there, but they used a pair of 2nd round picks and traded a 3rd and then signed the cheapest options available.

That's a far cry from say....trading up in the 1st for a McDuffie.

IowaHawkeyeChief · 12-12-2023, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

And?

Is he not without faults? Is everything they do perfect? They're great. I love me some Reid and Veach. I don't want them going anywhere. But acknowledging a failure is not being a "hater".

Reid simply does not put a premium on the WR position. I truly believe he sees it as the least important position in his offense. Veach drafts accordingly.

Walking into the season as MVS and Watson as your "vet insurance" was a move that simply didnt work out.

Everybody has faults, but Reid took the Eagles to 5 NFCCG, with this philosophy. He did that with Donovan McNabb... Last year with this philosophy, we won the Superbowl. They are criticizing arguably the best head coach of all time, who's system with his first HOF QB, has went to 5 straight AFCCG and 3 Superbowls, winning 2. Not exactly a failure...

Oh, and it "didn't work out". may come to fruition, but were not there yet. Let the season play out.

DrunkBassGuitar · 12-12-2023, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Deadspin is getting sued for slandering a Chiefs fan… so of course.

God, I’m sick of the Kansas City Chiefs https://t.co/CMLEuFSqNC
— Deadspin (@Deadspin) December 11, 2023

lol a bears fan who thinks Reid is the only coach who gets warnings about players being offsides

Sorry toots Mahomes was right to be mad and officiating has been abysmal all season across the league

ToxSocks · 12-12-2023, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

You can say that they used resources there, but they used a pair of 2nd round picks and traded a 3rd and then signed the cheapest options available.

That's a far cry from say....trading up in the 1st for a McDuffie.

Nor does it resemble the complete overhaul of the OL when Veach broke the bank (twice, actually).

Or the way he approached the DB's and drafted a slew of them.

Compare Veach/Reid's approach to the OL (twice), the DB's or the DL and there's a very distinct difference in approaches compared to the WR group.

IowaHawkeyeChief · 12-12-2023, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

We're not gonna go back to the Moore debates...that guy was never going to be the lead dog in the WR room even if he did meet his potential.

Rice was a great pick.

The issue was assuming MVS and Watson were going to be your reliable, go-to vets while you ushered in your youth movement.

Those moves turned into an even bigger catastrophe when Moore and Toney didn't take steps forward.

You can say that they used resources there, but they used a pair of 2nd round picks and traded a 3rd and then signed the cheapest options available.

That's a far cry from say....trading up in the 1st for a McDuffie.

All reports say they tried to trade up for Flowers in this draft but had no willing partners unless it was just a fleecing. In hindsight, Rice looks to be the deal. Also in hindsight, the 2022 WR class after the first round was shit... Pickens and his attitude is the only one with Ok numbers, anyone before and after is doing nothing.

DrunkBassGuitar · 12-12-2023, 06:40 PM

lol the incredible number of hot takes for an 8-5 team at the top of the AFC West who might have to play a road playoff game for the first time in Mahomes career

Sports media has been slavering to put out the chiefs obituary

Gonna be great when we win another Superbowl

staylor26 · 12-12-2023, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

We're not gonna go back to the Moore debates...that guy was never going to be the lead dog in the WR room even if he did meet his potential.

Rice was a great pick.

The issue was assuming MVS and Watson were going to be your reliable, go-to vets while you ushered in your youth movement.

Those moves turned into an even bigger catastrophe when Moore and Toney didn't take steps forward.

You can say that they used resources there, but they used a pair of 2nd round picks and traded a 3rd and then signed the cheapest options available.

That's a far cry from say....trading up in the 1st for a McDuffie.

You're being emotional about this.

You would have zero issue if they took Pickens and Rice the last 2 years. You wouldn't give a **** that it was 2 2nd round picks and not a trade up in the 1st.

The issue isn't lack of investment. It's getting two of the guys they invested in wrong.

You're just as likely to get a stud WR in the 2nd as you are in the mid to late 1st. Unless you're picking top 10, there's really not a significant difference.

I have zero doubt that they will attack the position in the offseason and build around Rice. I don't understand how anybody could be concerned that they won't.

ToxSocks · 12-12-2023, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

Everybody has faults, but Reid took the Eagles to 5 NFCCG, with this philosophy. He did that with Donovan McNabb... Last year with this philosophy, we won the Superbowl. They are criticizing arguably the best head coach of all time, who's system with his first HOF QB, has went to 5 straight AFCCG and 3 Superbowls, winning 2. Not exactly a failure...

Oh, and it "didn't work out". may come to fruition, but were not there yet. Let the season play out.

Last year we won the SB because our Qb played what many thought of as the greatest season a Qb has ever had....ever.

And i recall mentioning/thinking to myself that this would convince the Chiefs F/O to double down on this philosophy and that could really bite us in the ass. But they're the Chiefs so i put those concerns aside. Turns out, yeah, my concerns were justified.

Because AGAIN, as ive been saying since 15 was drafted....NEVER.STOP.LOADING.UP.ON WEAPONS.

Veach said he wouldn't. Yet that's EXACTLY what he did.

And yeah, they deserve to be called out for it. Fix it.

12-12-2023, 05:02 PM
Realbaddog Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $3227175	Patrick Mahomes is entering his Donovan McNabb era Found this, didn't see it posted prior: The Kansas City Chiefs can point to a myriad of issues behind their offensive struggles, including Matt Nagy’s playcalling, but their rapid disarmament over the last two years has hit them where it hurts. If you’re searching for a culprit for Kansas City’s offensive demise and fall from top 10 in scoring for the first time since 2016, their wideouts have already been caught holding the bloody knife on the gridiron over the Super Bowl champions’ body. Patrick Mahomes, king of the tight spiral, discovered this season that he, too, is subject to the whims of his wideouts. For the second time in a matter of weeks, a Chiefs receiver has become the main NFL Twitter protagonist after butchering a miraculous Mahomes play on national television. Kadarius Toney provided a glimpse into what type of season this would be in the Chiefs season-opening loss to the Detroit Lions. That night featured a perfect trinity of drops by Toney including his pièce de résistance in the final two minutes, on a bobbled pass that should have put the Chiefs in position to win. Lightning struck again when Marquez Valdes-Scantling dropped a deep bomb inside Philly’s 5 on one of the final plays of their Week 11 loss to the Eagles. On Sunday, Toney treated the line of scrimmage like an abstract concept, lined up offsides and wiped out the highlight of his and Kelce’s careers. The Chiefs offense is spiraling and the calls are coming from inside the house. The root of this period of discontent has been Kansas City’s neglect in drafting or signing an elite receiver for Mahomes. It’s analogous to New England’s miscalculations in evaluating offensive skill positions during Tom Brady’s twilight with the Pats refusing to draft a wideout in the first round. Reid has experimented with this method of team-building around cardboard cutout receivers before and it failed. Welcome to the Donovan McNabb experience. During Reid’s early years at the helm of the Philadelphia Eagles, he surrounded McNabb with flotsam at receiver, developed Brian Westbrook into an amorphous multi-purpose back who could create splash plays at receiver or in the run game. The McNabb era in Philadelphia was defined by McNabb’s hero ball despite receivers who dropped the ball like they had carpal tunnel. The one season Philadelphia was gracious enough to bless him with Terrell Owens resulted in Philadelphia advancing past the NFC Championship in their fourth try and reaching the Super Bowl in McNabb and T.O.’s only full season together. It was a near perfect storm that resulted in McNabb setting career-highs in yardage, yards-per-attempt, touchdowns and quarterback rating. Mahomes’ career has been the inverse of McNabb’s. He is a superior quarterback in nearly every way above the shoulders than McNabb, but Philadelphia’s bayonet offense forced McNabb to do considerably more of the dirty work than Mahomes has had to do with Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins and Travis Kelce creating separation downfield in the Chiefs high-octane attack. McNabb was haunted by the follies of his wide receivers. Freddie Mitchell thanking god for his hands was the highlight of his Eagles career. James Thrash dropped a crucial pass in the 2004 NFC title game that cost the Eagles a trip to the Super Bowl, months before they acquired Owens. Staley and Todd Pinkston were denizens of Drop City during that championship loss to the Rams, while McNabb gutted it out for nearly three quarters with injured ribs. In Owens’ shadow, Mitchell and Pinkston were the only Eagles receivers to reel in touchdowns for Philadelphia during their Super Bowl campaign, catching a grand total of three. Philadelphia should erect a monument to the heavy lifting McNabb did with such a mediocre cast of receivers. During his stint in Philly, Westbrook, Pinkston, Chad Lewis, L.J. Smith, Thrash, Staley and Reggie Brown were his leading receivers. There isn’t a single 1,000-yard receiving season between the three of them. Not a single one. McNabb molded masterpieces from clay and dung. Kansas City’s contemporary receivers highlight the importance of having competent hands in your lineup. For years, NFL cognoscenti have made it their mission to minimize the effect a great receiving corps can have on an offense spearheaded by a quarterback deity. Great offense is a polytheistic exercise. If anything, Kansas City’s shortcomings should only strengthen Tyreek Hill’s MVP case. One season of this is enough. Kansas City can’t afford to prolong Mahomes and the passing attack’s suffering. If this season has taught us anything, it’s that while Reid has secured a slot in Canton after starting over in Kansas City, we should put a lot more respect on Donovan McNabb’s name and it should serve as a warning for Reid not to repeat his mistakes of that era. Link: https://deadspin.com/patrick-mahomes...efs-1851094149
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12-12-2023, 06:26 PM	#17
lewdog Mod Team Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Valley of the hot as **** Casino cash: $-1528100	I’d rather get drunk and ride in a car with Da Beard than read another Deadspin article.
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12-12-2023, 06:32 PM	#20
MahomesMagic Generational Player Join Date: May 2017 Location: Honolulu Casino cash: $390400	The way that Brett Veach told the story of the Tyreek trade made it sound like the Tyreek trade was his idea and he had to sell Andy on trading Tyreek. So if there is a guy that wants to "Donovan McNabb" Mahomes it's most likely not Reid.
Posts: 10,049

12-12-2023, 06:34 PM	#22
DrunkBassGuitar GDT white noise poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chonson County Casino cash: $1858230	Meatspin > deadspin
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12-12-2023, 06:40 PM	#28
DrunkBassGuitar GDT white noise poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chonson County Casino cash: $1858230	lol the incredible number of hot takes for an 8-5 team at the top of the AFC West who might have to play a road playoff game for the first time in Mahomes career Sports media has been slavering to put out the chiefs obituary Gonna be great when we win another Superbowl
Posts: 6,878