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Old 03-24-2025, 08:32 AM  
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***Official 2025 STL Cardinals Thread ***
Another year of seeing Mo run this team into the ground. And Dewitt claim to be broke.

Schedule:
https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/schedule/2025-03
Roster
https://x.com/dealinthecards/status/...451315315?s=46

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.
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Old 05-12-2025, 07:56 PM   #121
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Last one I can think of is 2013 Wacha.
Nah, Wacha was polished coming out of college. Spent basically no time in the minors. Cardinals didn’t develop him.
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Old 05-12-2025, 08:03 PM   #122
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9 in a row almost has me wanting to go this weekend... almost.

Get to 10 and we'll talk.
I’m going Friday and Saturday. Got free really good
tickets so why not.
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Old 05-13-2025, 07:32 AM   #123
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Nah, Wacha was polished coming out of college. Spent basically no time in the minors. Cardinals didn’t develop him.
Yes, I meant to qualify that he basically came straight to the majors, but the last one I could remember that was "technically" home grown.
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Old 05-13-2025, 11:49 AM   #124
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I’m going Friday and Saturday. Got free really good
tickets so why not.
I might try to go Friday or Sunday. If i am able to make it on Friday I'll shoot you a pm and buy you a beer.
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Old 05-16-2025, 10:21 AM   #125
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Is this true?
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Old 05-19-2025, 08:14 AM   #126
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From those who would know better than me...... Is this team a real contender for a playoff spot or just a flash in the pan in a long season....

From the Athletic by Katie Woo

As the St. Louis Cardinals surge through May, they’re doing so by playing some of their best baseball in recent memory.

The Cardinals (24-20) are a season-best four games over .500. They have won 14 of their last 19 games and currently sit one game out of first place in the division. Players across the board are taking major steps forward.

Brendan Donovan’s .313 batting average is the sixth-highest in the National League. Victor Scott II’s six Outs Above Average (OAA) is tied for the third-best in baseball, and his 13 stolen bases are the third-most in the league. Masyn Winn continues to show why the Cardinals believe he’ll be their long-term shortstop, and Kyle Leahy continues to be one of the most underrated set-up men in the game
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Old 05-19-2025, 08:39 AM   #127
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From those who would know better than me...... Is this team a real contender for a playoff spot or just a flash in the pan in a long season....

From the Athletic by Katie Woo

As the St. Louis Cardinals surge through May, they’re doing so by playing some of their best baseball in recent memory.

The Cardinals (24-20) are a season-best four games over .500. They have won 14 of their last 19 games and currently sit one game out of first place in the division. Players across the board are taking major steps forward.

Brendan Donovan’s .313 batting average is the sixth-highest in the National League. Victor Scott II’s six Outs Above Average (OAA) is tied for the third-best in baseball, and his 13 stolen bases are the third-most in the league. Masyn Winn continues to show why the Cardinals believe he’ll be their long-term shortstop, and Kyle Leahy continues to be one of the most underrated set-up men in the game
The problem w/ the Cardinals as 'contenders' is that they still don't have a top of the rotation starter and they are missing at least 1 genuine run producer in the lineup. Frankly, they need a 5 WAR offensive piece AND another 2 WAR (pro-rated) from Arenado.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that this is who Liberatore is; that he's a sustantable 3ish ERA pitcher. Okay - that's a 2. I guess you have a 3 with Fedde, a 4 with Gray and a 5 with Pallante. You're still missing the 1.

And Leahy/Maton/Helsley is a solid back end. Matz can give you some tolerable bulk work as well in the middle innings. Romero should be eventually okay. But it's not like it's the Royals 2014 bullpen that can anchor a pitching staff. It's...good. It's not great.

And ultimately they NEED to trade Helsley and Fedde at the deadline. Holding those 2 guys would just be asinine.

They have a team full of complementary players but are lacking anchor tenants because Gorman and Walker suck horribly. And there's nobody on the farm who's going to change that (Wetherholt is essentially the infield version of Nootbaar; which pretty much makes him similar to Donovan).

I mean let's say that Scott, Winn, Donovan and Noot stay at a simliar level. By EOY you end up with:

Donovan: 6 WAR (excellent)
Noot: 4.5
Scott: 4
Winn: 3.5

Let's even put Contreras at the 2024 version of himself (which is how he's played for the last month) -- that's another 4 WAR sort of player. Hell, Nolan gets you to 3.5 as well.

That's 6 guys who provide about 25 WAR -- 4 WAR each; that's damn good.

And the team is still gonna be less than the sum of its parts, IMO. Because they don't have a genuine 3 or 4 hitter in there, IMO. They have a ton of 1, 2, 5 and 6 hitters.

With a good, not great bullpen and a rotation that is...fine.

Could that be a 88-90 win team? Potentially. Is that a 'contender'? No. And does it seem at all likely that they're going to be better than this in the next 2 seasons? Not really -- Wetherholt isn't going to meaningfull alter that calculus. Mathews isn't an ace, he was terrible then he got hurt. Hence is dead. Saggese doesn't have a plus hit tool. The rest of the minors....exists. Chase Davis was supposed to be an advanced college pick who's just been fine at every level. He's never excelled in any way (never demonstrated plus power, approach or speed). And he's seemingly the best we have.

I mean does anyone think the Cardinals are going to be in on Kyle Tucker? of course not. Maybe they'd be interested in Ozuna but/for his previous collapse here. Mullins is what they already have. Likewise with Bichette. Pete Alonso is gonna opt out and he might be worth looking into...but they won't.

They just aren't going to commit to getting those extra 2-3 major pieces and they don't have a farm that's going to provide them. This is it. Nothing that's happened this season has changed that.
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Old 05-19-2025, 08:53 AM   #128
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Is this true?
No.

They added his 2024 Mets contract and 2024 Ranges cotract to the 2025 numbers.

He's due $15.5 million from Toronto this year and $15 million in deferrals from Washington.

And it's silly to try to use the deferred payments as a knock on him. He was getting $15 million/season when he was anchoring a WS rotation, striking out 300 guys/yr and finishing in the top 5 in the CY voting (with 2 wins) 6 times in 7 years for the Gnats.

He earned those deferred payments and then some.

When it's all said and done, he and Verlander will have had virtually identical careers, will go into the HoF on the first ballot and will both have earned about $400 million over the course of 20 year HOF careers. Wanna compare that to the $350 million that Stephen Strasburg will have earned to be a cocktease his entire career? Gerrit Cole who's going to make $335 million to never anchor a championship rotation?

Scherzer is one of the few big money players in modern MLB history to have earned every thin red dime he's been paid. And then some.

So yeah - **** that idiot click-bait merchant. That's bullshit.
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Old 05-19-2025, 10:45 AM   #129
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And ultimately they NEED to trade Helsley and Fedde at the deadline. Holding those 2 guys would just be asinine.
I'm not saying they will be, but what if they're leading the division at the All Star break? Do they still sell, or does Mo and Dewallet keep rolling with the facade of a contender to keep butts in seats?

(I'm pretty sure I know the answer)
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Old 05-19-2025, 12:24 PM   #130
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I'm not saying they will be, but what if they're leading the division at the All Star break? Do they still sell, or does Mo and Dewallet keep rolling with the facade of a contender to keep butts in seats?

(I'm pretty sure I know the answer)
Oh there's not a chance they sell if they're within even 3 games of a playoff spot at the deadline.

"Meaningful baseball in September..."

Remember?

My point is entirely that the thought process is wrongheaded.
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Old 05-19-2025, 12:36 PM   #131
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Oh there's not a chance they sell if they're within even 3 games of a playoff spot at the deadline.

"Meaningful baseball in September..."

Remember?

My point is entirely that the thought process is wrongheaded.
That's what a thought, but you're a lot smarter than I am lmao
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Old 05-19-2025, 01:58 PM   #132
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Please keep your hot steak going for at least 3 more games and sweep Detroit.
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Old 05-19-2025, 07:14 PM   #133
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Please keep your hot steak going for at least 3 more games and sweep Detroit.
Should be pretty easy if we get to keep playing all those minor league squads in the Junior Circuit.
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Old 05-19-2025, 07:23 PM   #134
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The problem w/ the Cardinals as 'contenders' is that they still don't have a top of the rotation starter and they are missing at least 1 genuine run producer in the lineup. Frankly, they need a 5 WAR offensive piece AND another 2 WAR (pro-rated) from Arenado.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that this is who Liberatore is; that he's a sustantable 3ish ERA pitcher. Okay - that's a 2. I guess you have a 3 with Fedde, a 4 with Gray and a 5 with Pallante. You're still missing the 1.

And Leahy/Maton/Helsley is a solid back end. Matz can give you some tolerable bulk work as well in the middle innings. Romero should be eventually okay. But it's not like it's the Royals 2014 bullpen that can anchor a pitching staff. It's...good. It's not great.

And ultimately they NEED to trade Helsley and Fedde at the deadline. Holding those 2 guys would just be asinine.

They have a team full of complementary players but are lacking anchor tenants because Gorman and Walker suck horribly. And there's nobody on the farm who's going to change that (Wetherholt is essentially the infield version of Nootbaar; which pretty much makes him similar to Donovan).

I mean let's say that Scott, Winn, Donovan and Noot stay at a simliar level. By EOY you end up with:

Donovan: 6 WAR (excellent)
Noot: 4.5
Scott: 4
Winn: 3.5

Let's even put Contreras at the 2024 version of himself (which is how he's played for the last month) -- that's another 4 WAR sort of player. Hell, Nolan gets you to 3.5 as well.

That's 6 guys who provide about 25 WAR -- 4 WAR each; that's damn good.

And the team is still gonna be less than the sum of its parts, IMO. Because they don't have a genuine 3 or 4 hitter in there, IMO. They have a ton of 1, 2, 5 and 6 hitters.

With a good, not great bullpen and a rotation that is...fine.

Could that be a 88-90 win team? Potentially. Is that a 'contender'? No. And does it seem at all likely that they're going to be better than this in the next 2 seasons? Not really -- Wetherholt isn't going to meaningfull alter that calculus. Mathews isn't an ace, he was terrible then he got hurt. Hence is dead. Saggese doesn't have a plus hit tool. The rest of the minors....exists. Chase Davis was supposed to be an advanced college pick who's just been fine at every level. He's never excelled in any way (never demonstrated plus power, approach or speed). And he's seemingly the best we have.

I mean does anyone think the Cardinals are going to be in on Kyle Tucker? of course not. Maybe they'd be interested in Ozuna but/for his previous collapse here. Mullins is what they already have. Likewise with Bichette. Pete Alonso is gonna opt out and he might be worth looking into...but they won't.

They just aren't going to commit to getting those extra 2-3 major pieces and they don't have a farm that's going to provide them. This is it. Nothing that's happened this season has changed that.
You didn’t mention Herrera, he has been a nice surprise offensively this year.
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Old 05-22-2025, 03:40 PM   #135
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Yadi and Albert picked for the 1/4 century team.
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