Grbackers clearly in the minority... - Page 10

Clint in Wichita · 09-03-2000, 08:04 PM

at least among ticket-purchasing fans. I agree that booing your own team is pretty lame, but when Grbac was introduced (yes, before the game had even started), he was met with about a 50/50 mix of cheers and boos.

After his last atrocious pass attempt, he was booed off the field by a chorus of boos like I've never heard before. He just stood there with his hands on his hips, staring at the crowd. Who knows what he was thinking, but his body language suggested that his spirit was broken.

Like it or not, his support is rapidly dwindling.

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09-05-2000, 08:02 AM

Luz,

I saw what you saw. Elvis did check off a couple of times and hit the second (and third) receiver. But he also tried to force throws to Gonzo in double-coverage.

He played well the entire game, until the game was on the line. I just don't think that at 30 years old, his mental game is going to drastically improve. He makes bad decisions in crunch time.

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator[/b]
[i]baked...not fried

Clint in Wichita · 09-05-2000, 08:06 AM

If booing was so detrimental to a team's performance, then the Rams would never have made it to where they are today.

We are theChiefs' customers. If they provide an unsatifactory product, they had better either install the biggest freaking suggestion box on the planet at Arrowhead, or accept the booing.

Hell, I complain when the dummy at McDonald's forgets to put a straw in my bag, but they don't seem to react to booing into the drive-thru speaker at all!!

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[This message has been edited by Clint in Wichita (edited 09-05-2000).]

Luzap · 09-05-2000, 08:09 AM

htismaqe,

Chill.

I wanted the Chiefs to win; I was afraid we would get blown out.

What I saw was a LOT of positive things to build on.

I am not happy with our coaching. I don't like criticizing our team, and I always believe it is intelligent to give the benefit of the doubt, but the coaching needs to improve NOW.

Having said that, there were many things to feel good about and Grbac was one of them. I don't for a minute buy the "he always does that at a critical moment" trash. All QBs have errors, lapses in judgement, and interceptions (all QBs that try to make things happen). It is how they respond to them that counts. Elvis responded by driving us down the field (more than once) only to have drives stalled by dropped passes. Even with only a few minutes left, he didn't give up but rather drove us down the field and put the ball in the hands of our WR in the endzone. That my friend would have given us an opportunity to win.

I don't mind if you have a different opinion, but don't scream at others if they take exception to you relegating our starting QB to the reject pile after the first game of a long season in which he did a pretty decent job.

Luz
chill...

**morphius** · 09-05-2000, 08:09 AM

HT - Odd as this seems for some to see, I will go ahead and say it. When you have playmakers like Morris and TG, then everyonce and a while you throw the ball into double coverage and let them make the play, because that is what playmakers do. This is what you have to do with Moss, Carter, Harrison... But to not try to get a ball to your playmakers makes less sense then trying to force it in. Though I think it was not a very good pass, at least the one your talking about.

Morphius
Waiting to hear the sirens of the Wahhhhmbulance.

Red Till Dead · 09-05-2000, 08:14 AM

What was really disappointing is that we just gave away the first quarter on offense. Playing a team we have seen that can score at any time. Our play calling is pathetic! We are supposedly a play action team which means we suck in the linebackers to open up the middle. Problem is we don't throw over the middle more than 2 times per game. When we do it is a stop pattern that gives our receivers no yards after the catch.

Our biggest suprise plays are not catching a team off guard with the pass because we run on almost every down (till down by more than two TDs) our biggest suprise play is to run the ball on 3rd and 10. Makes me sick.

I am with another poster, maybe Grbac should start calling audibles on the line 50% of the time like Manning does. If he can't make the O go then, maybe he should be gone. Till then will blame our offensive ineptitude on GUN and JIMMY RAYE.

The KC Star stated you can't win Daytona with a chevelle, well Jeff Gordon couldn't win with his race car, if he had a guy that built his engine because he stayed at Holiday Inn last night.

The chiefs coaches have probably earned lots of brand name merchandise. Jimmy Raye probably already has a TV up in his room!

**morphius** · 09-05-2000, 08:16 AM

Clint - I honestly saw nothing wrong in booing the play calling in the beginning of the game (that was the only time I really remember hearing it from home). As for booing a player before he gets on the field, well those people should sit on their hands when he makes a great play, or a good play. Odd how loud they all got when Grbac threw for a TD after booing him off the bat.

09-05-2000, 08:22 AM

Luz,

I don't disagree with you on alot of it. I saw some very big positives. Sylvester Morris is going to be awesome. The defense didn't look bad either.

It's the coaching that really gets me. Gun ADMITTED in the post-game on the radio that the defense was lined up wrong, not once, but several times. The offense didn't do too bad, considering the freaking playcalling.

Elvis wasn't as bad as I made him out to be, I'll admit that. But what is it going to take to get him out of that mode he sometimes gets in? The look on his face after the INT indicated to me that he knew he had made a dumb mistake. He apologized for it, so he obviously felt it was partially his fault. He did bounce back and march us down the field and to him goes the credit, because our recievers were pathetic on that drive.

As far as your comments about screaming about criticism, I wasn't necessarily talking to you. You met my comments with thoughtful arguments to the contrary. However, there were several others that resorted to calling me, Clint, and others names. Those people were the ones I was responding to in the "rant" post.

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator[/b]
[i]baked...not fried

Clint in Wichita · 09-05-2000, 08:24 AM

Gunther wants to wage trench warfare in the era of the laser-guided bomb. It is Carl and Gun's basic offensive philosophy that is more detrimental to this team that any other single factor. Their conservative, outdated philosphy is the reason why we are forced to watch players like Grbac, Bennett, and DA, and why we have a guy like Raye in the booth.

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**morphius** · 09-05-2000, 08:26 AM

Red Till Dead - I agree, well said. One of my biggest complaints has been, where are the crossing route's? The post, corner and go routes are the only one's where the player catches on the run. We might call a slant play twice a year, but that really doesn't count. God I HATE stop routes.

Clint in Wichita · 09-05-2000, 08:27 AM

HT,

The people that were calling us names just can't face the truth:

No matter how sexually attracted they may be to Grbac, he just isn't a franchise quarterback! [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

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58Forever · 09-05-2000, 08:33 AM

I am a Grbacker but even I admit that my faith is waivering...but I still don't understand the lack of support...we have no better QB than Grbac at the moment...Moon is not the answer for even this year...Collins?...maybe next year, I don't know...so I'll say it again and again...support the players on the field...until something better comes along anyway....sick of the boobirds....

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joe
"Sex on television can't hurt you... unless you fall off."

Luzap · 09-05-2000, 08:38 AM

Morphius, Clint, Htsmage,

I think we are all in basic agreement here (and I hope I haven't stepped on any toes).

I want to know whether in training camp, we practised crossing patterns and other routs except for stops? I want to know who to be disapointed in!

If those routes are not in our playbook and/or we're not practising them in the offseason then it's is entirely Gun's fault.

If we have them in our arsenal and we're just not calling them then it is mostly Raye's fault with blame for Gun if he doesn't step in and correct it.

I hope it's a matter of just not using them because if not, our entire coaching staff will need to be replaced (and that won't happen until next year).

The answer to this one question will tell me more about the future of this team than any single other bit of information!

Luz
praying for the right answer...

09-05-2000, 08:40 AM

Luz,

My toes are fine. [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

Wow, after reading the thread [b]Could someone verify this?[/b] I think I know what our problem is...

The crossing routes probably aren't part of JR's remedial offense.

------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator[/b]
[i]baked...not fried

Clint in Wichita · 09-05-2000, 08:45 AM

When Gunther was saying that he would try to get Shaw a head coaching job, I wonder if it ever crossed his mind that Shaw's first HC job might be at his expense?

Coach Shaw. I like the sound of that!

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Clint in Wichita · 09-05-2000, 08:48 AM

No matter how bad Raye is, Gun is still responsible for the offense. He has the power to change the offense, personnel, or coordinators. Maybe he just doesn't have the know-how.

------------------
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09-05-2000, 08:02 AM	#136
htismaqe Guest Casino cash: $	Luz, I saw what you saw. Elvis did check off a couple of times and hit the second (and third) receiver. But he also tried to force throws to Gonzo in double-coverage. He played well the entire game, until the game was on the line. I just don't think that at 30 years old, his mental game is going to drastically improve. He makes bad decisions in crunch time. ------------------ Parker [b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator[/b] [i]baked...not fried</I>
Posts: n/a

09-05-2000, 08:06 AM	#137
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	If booing was so detrimental to a team's performance, then the Rams would never have made it to where they are today. We are theChiefs' customers. If they provide an unsatifactory product, they had better either install the biggest freaking suggestion box on the planet at Arrowhead, or accept the booing. Hell, I complain when the dummy at McDonald's forgets to put a straw in my bag, but they don't seem to react to booing into the drive-thru speaker at all!! ------------------ This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!! [This message has been edited by Clint in Wichita (edited 09-05-2000).]
Posts: 4,458

09-05-2000, 08:09 AM	#138
Luzap 9.89 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dallas, TX Casino cash: $10004900	htismaqe, Chill. I wanted the Chiefs to win; I was afraid we would get blown out. What I saw was a LOT of positive things to build on. I am not happy with our coaching. I don't like criticizing our team, and I always believe it is intelligent to give the benefit of the doubt, but the coaching needs to improve NOW. Having said that, there were many things to feel good about and Grbac was one of them. I don't for a minute buy the "he always does that at a critical moment" trash. All QBs have errors, lapses in judgement, and interceptions (all QBs that try to make things happen). It is how they respond to them that counts. Elvis responded by driving us down the field (more than once) only to have drives stalled by dropped passes. Even with only a few minutes left, he didn't give up but rather drove us down the field and put the ball in the hands of our WR in the endzone. That my friend would have given us an opportunity to win. I don't mind if you have a different opinion, but don't scream at others if they take exception to you relegating our starting QB to the reject pile after the first game of a long season in which he did a pretty decent job. Luz chill...<BR>
Posts: 3,327

09-05-2000, 08:09 AM	#139
morphius World's finest morphius Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $5805027	HT - Odd as this seems for some to see, I will go ahead and say it. When you have playmakers like Morris and TG, then everyonce and a while you throw the ball into double coverage and let them make the play, because that is what playmakers do. This is what you have to do with Moss, Carter, Harrison... But to not try to get a ball to your playmakers makes less sense then trying to force it in. Though I think it was not a very good pass, at least the one your talking about. Morphius Waiting to hear the sirens of the Wahhhhmbulance.
Posts: 26,022

09-05-2000, 08:14 AM	#140
Red Till Dead Starter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	What was really disappointing is that we just gave away the first quarter on offense. Playing a team we have seen that can score at any time. Our play calling is pathetic! We are supposedly a play action team which means we suck in the linebackers to open up the middle. Problem is we don't throw over the middle more than 2 times per game. When we do it is a stop pattern that gives our receivers no yards after the catch. Our biggest suprise plays are not catching a team off guard with the pass because we run on almost every down (till down by more than two TDs) our biggest suprise play is to run the ball on 3rd and 10. Makes me sick. I am with another poster, maybe Grbac should start calling audibles on the line 50% of the time like Manning does. If he can't make the O go then, maybe he should be gone. Till then will blame our offensive ineptitude on GUN and JIMMY RAYE. The KC Star stated you can't win Daytona with a chevelle, well Jeff Gordon couldn't win with his race car, if he had a guy that built his engine because he stayed at Holiday Inn last night. The chiefs coaches have probably earned lots of brand name merchandise. Jimmy Raye probably already has a TV up in his room!
Posts: 139

09-03-2000, 08:04 PM
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	at least among ticket-purchasing fans. I agree that booing your own team is pretty lame, but when Grbac was introduced (yes, before the game had even started), he was met with about a 50/50 mix of cheers and boos. After his last atrocious pass attempt, he was booed off the field by a chorus of boos like I've never heard before. He just stood there with his hands on his hips, staring at the crowd. Who knows what he was thinking, but his body language suggested that his spirit was broken. Like it or not, his support is rapidly dwindling. ------------------ This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!
Posts: 4,458

09-05-2000, 08:16 AM	#141
morphius World's finest morphius Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $5805027	Clint - I honestly saw nothing wrong in booing the play calling in the beginning of the game (that was the only time I really remember hearing it from home). As for booing a player before he gets on the field, well those people should sit on their hands when he makes a great play, or a good play. Odd how loud they all got when Grbac threw for a TD after booing him off the bat.
Posts: 26,022

09-05-2000, 08:22 AM	#142
htismaqe Guest Casino cash: $	Luz, I don't disagree with you on alot of it. I saw some very big positives. Sylvester Morris is going to be awesome. The defense didn't look bad either. It's the coaching that really gets me. Gun ADMITTED in the post-game on the radio that the defense was lined up wrong, not once, but several times. The offense didn't do too bad, considering the freaking playcalling. Elvis wasn't as bad as I made him out to be, I'll admit that. But what is it going to take to get him out of that mode he sometimes gets in? The look on his face after the INT indicated to me that he knew he had made a dumb mistake. He apologized for it, so he obviously felt it was partially his fault. He did bounce back and march us down the field and to him goes the credit, because our recievers were pathetic on that drive. As far as your comments about screaming about criticism, I wasn't necessarily talking to you. You met my comments with thoughtful arguments to the contrary. However, there were several others that resorted to calling me, Clint, and others names. Those people were the ones I was responding to in the "rant" post. ------------------ Parker [b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator[/b] [i]baked...not fried</I>
Posts: n/a

09-05-2000, 08:24 AM	#143
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	Gunther wants to wage trench warfare in the era of the laser-guided bomb. It is Carl and Gun's basic offensive philosophy that is more detrimental to this team that any other single factor. Their conservative, outdated philosphy is the reason why we are forced to watch players like Grbac, Bennett, and DA, and why we have a guy like Raye in the booth. ------------------ This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!
Posts: 4,458

09-05-2000, 08:26 AM	#144
morphius World's finest morphius Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $5805027	Red Till Dead - I agree, well said. One of my biggest complaints has been, where are the crossing route's? The post, corner and go routes are the only one's where the player catches on the run. We might call a slant play twice a year, but that really doesn't count. God I HATE stop routes.<BR>
Posts: 26,022

09-05-2000, 08:27 AM	#145
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	HT, The people that were calling us names just can't face the truth: No matter how sexually attracted they may be to Grbac, he just isn't a franchise quarterback! [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] ------------------ This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!
Posts: 4,458

09-05-2000, 08:33 AM	#146
58Forever It's dejavu all over again! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: at home in my own chair Casino cash: $10004900	I am a Grbacker but even I admit that my faith is waivering...but I still don't understand the lack of support...we have no better QB than Grbac at the moment...Moon is not the answer for even this year...Collins?...maybe next year, I don't know...so I'll say it again and again...support the players on the field...until something better comes along anyway....sick of the boobirds.... ------------------ joe "Sex on television can't hurt you... unless you fall off."
Posts: 1,828

09-05-2000, 08:38 AM	#147
Luzap 9.89 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dallas, TX Casino cash: $10004900	Morphius, Clint, Htsmage, I think we are all in basic agreement here (and I hope I haven't stepped on any toes). I want to know whether in training camp, we practised crossing patterns and other routs except for stops? I want to know who to be disapointed in! If those routes are not in our playbook and/or we're not practising them in the offseason then it's is entirely Gun's fault. If we have them in our arsenal and we're just not calling them then it is mostly Raye's fault with blame for Gun if he doesn't step in and correct it. I hope it's a matter of just not using them because if not, our entire coaching staff will need to be replaced (and that won't happen until next year). The answer to this one question will tell me more about the future of this team than any single other bit of information! Luz praying for the right answer...<P>
Posts: 3,327

09-05-2000, 08:40 AM	#148
htismaqe Guest Casino cash: $	Luz, My toes are fine. [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Wow, after reading the thread [b]Could someone verify this?[/b] I think I know what our problem is... The crossing routes probably aren't part of JR's remedial offense. ------------------ Parker [b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator[/b] [i]baked...not fried</I>
Posts: n/a

09-05-2000, 08:45 AM	#149
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	When Gunther was saying that he would try to get Shaw a head coaching job, I wonder if it ever crossed his mind that Shaw's first HC job might be at his expense? Coach Shaw. I like the sound of that! ------------------ This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!
Posts: 4,458

09-05-2000, 08:48 AM	#150
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	No matter how bad Raye is, Gun is still responsible for the offense. He has the power to change the offense, personnel, or coordinators. Maybe he just doesn't have the know-how. ------------------ This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!
Posts: 4,458